Religion rant (if easily offended, should probably not enter)

[figgie]

no ignorance IS infact bliss..

emotions do effect choices. And since in your beleif system "god" has emotions then that same god will screw a choice up based on emotions. So with that in mind, then this god that bases decision on emotion has LOL and now you are saying there is a God and he makes mistakes right? So first you're telling me there is no God, then you tell me there is a God and he makes choices based on emotion. Sorry there is no way you can jump from Human's making those choices, to God doing the same thing. You're wrong. God made us "In his image" not "Just like Him". So no, God does NOT make choices based on Emotion as you can I would. You are wrong.

reading101 much?? Perrhaps you need to go back to 2nd grade and learn how to read a sentence and how that sentence forms a paragraph mmmkay??

here since you overlooked it

.....your beleif system..

(with typos and all)

so tell me. How does YOUR belief system make me believe in god??? Yeah that is what I thought. next straw grab!

1. Already fucked up and made numerous emotional based decision which lead to a huge error on his part (thought he didn't make errors??) Nope, His plan all along was to be able to get his creation in heaven with him. That's what he created us for. He didn't fuck up, he planned it from the beginning. You're wrong again.

so he created us for us to be in heaven with him. That what he created us for? Here is the human emotion part again. I love the possesive nouns used though out. HIS Creations, HE created. HE planned it. wow so now god is a he??!?!

2. hasn't made an emotional decision (not very emotional then) Emotions are what we as humans have. They are the reason we aren't robots all doing the exact same thing. You're way off.[/quote]

man oh man.
perhaps this is where your confusion first started.

I find it funny how your "diety" rules with human like emotions. Wonder if that is coincindetal or actually part of the elusive puzzle. Not sure what you're trying to say here, but we are all human, and we all have emotion. Do we rule with hit? Yeah, like government rules with it. You still have a choice man, and no matter what your "emotion", you can choose to not let it effect you

deity = a god. Diety ruling with human like emotions is just that. god making decisions with emotions. God like, god hates, we are his etc. That is sure alot of "human emotions" for some all mighty being like this so called god to impart judgement based on "human emotion"

see just like everyone else that attempts to debate against me, my post always reels you in with logic that to understand you have to think on your own. This was actually a trick setup in which either way I got the answer I was looking for Yeah, funny how you can spin it off into something you've planned all along... oops you're wrong again. I don't see much Logic in what you say, I see your oppinion a whole lot though. Oops. you are wrong. Ack this is starting to be a trend with you.

don't worry. see my ownage on top. Either way you lost OR you can't read or a combination of both.

emotional god, bad choice and has fucked up
no emotional decision, means god is not emotional See above. Oops. you're wrong. See, sounds like you made a wrong choice based on your oppinion again. Sound familiar?

logic eludes you grasshopper. Perhaps I need to lower my english grammer to somewhere along the 2nd grade leve for you to understand. Seeing as you haven't answer a simplistic question if god is emotional or not. If he is then emotions have clouded his choices in the past. If he isn't then the bible is wrong in which case what you believe in is wrong. Capiche??

so which is it? It's called a debate, I can't Prove God exists, and you use your own oppinion to put words in my mouth and try to tell me what God is.

very good at least you understand what a debate consist of. that still does not answer the question. Is god making decisions with "human like emotions" or not. It is that simple. A or B, Black or white, Chocolate or Vanilla.

12 billion years plenty of time to make a fucked up choice See, yet another statement that can not be proven.

ooh straw grabbing now. Now what is not proven? This universe being 12+ billion years old? Actually it has see speed limit of light. Or the old man making a fucked up choice? See human like emotion for answer

I find it quite comical that you side stepped when brought up with other society that had more than one diety in thier religous belief system. Side step? Nope, just waiting for you to dig your own hole that's all.

i would look at the knee high shit you are already in first before you worry about my "hole".

BTW

don't worry. You are not the first nor will you be the last to lose to me in a "debate" I never worry, you just got owned

lmfao! by what someone selectively copy and pasting and sidestepping what I brought up?? HA!

 

[Jeff Lange]

Since I don't have the time to read 6000 posts, I'll just post my viewpoint. I believe in creation and evolution. The more I learn and know about science and how things work and so on, there's absolutely no way I can not believe in creation, on the same note, evolution and natural selection is proven, it happens all the time, choice genetics allow the strong and well-suited to survive and good genes allow for changing of species to adapt to their enviroment.

That being said, I don't believe humans evolved from apes. I believe humans were created, just like many of the other animals. I am a Christian and I believe that God created everything, but that's absolutely no reason to discredit natural selection and evolution to some extent.

 

[figgie]

Ok Figgie, that was a little dumb don't you think? can you not come up with a better debatable subject than that? Are you even listening or do you just blurt out the first thing that comes to your mind?

This is getting a little easier... *clears throat* God created man in His likeness. That means we have 2 arms, 2 legs and a head. We weren't flawed until we chose to be. Damn Figgie, sounds like you're letting emotions get in the way of your debate skills man!

Oh, and if you really knew those little stories, God actually only created Man to begin with. Eve, or Woman, came from Adam's Rib, and shaped by God.

wow, the power of belief is something.

so let me get this "likeness" straight

he only created "man" to be bipedal in his likeness and decidely left out thought out of his creation. Sounds like a fetus in fetu to me!!

wow i swear I thought santa claus was far fetched. This is taking the proverbial pie for sure.

 

[figgie]

Man was created in the likeness of God, with the ability to reason, with awareness of his surroundings, and with intelligence. The word likeness does not translate literally, I'm pretty sure the author didn't mean God pulled out the mold he was made from so that he could make us. God is not flesh, it states in John 4:24 that "God is Spirit." Plus, we were given free will, just as God has. So how can one free-willed being be held accountable for the actions of another? That's like saying that since IJ builds a badass engine, his dad must be able to do it too--all because they look, talk and even dress the same, so surely they're identical.

wow i hope who ever wrote the bible doesn't go into even second grade english as the person (notice the ambigouty but like most of gods' other work we can probably safely say it was MAN) would fail!!

So how can one free-willed being be held accountable for the actions of another?

by george I think they might actually get it!

Perhaps you might want to ask "god" this very question as apparently we are still being held accountable for the "fuck up" at the begining and last I checked we are STILL free-willed

 

[robeats91t]

...man (i love how it is just the male counterpart)

I look at it more as a reference to mankind, and not the male sex.

Perhaps you might want to ask "god" this very question as apparently we are still being held accountable for the "fuck up" at the begining and last I checked we are STILL free-willed

The moral of the story is this: God cannot accept sin. Whether you accept the fact that we were born into it or that we commit it daily, sin is sin, and in God's eyes it is unacceptable.

 

[figgie]

I look at it more as a reference to mankind, and not the male sex.

now now.. if it quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck, it can be interpreted to be a goose.

 

[figgie]

I look at it more as a reference to mankind, and not the male sex.



The moral of the story is this: God cannot accept sin. Whether you accept the fact that we were born into it or that we commit it daily, sin is sin, and in God's eyes it is unacceptable.

So how can one free-willed being be held accountable for the actions of another?

so then it is a contradiction then.

anyway

[satans gatekeeper]

the correct answer to get into heaven is........

The Mormons, The mormons.

[/southpark]

 

[cadman]

Actually thanks figgie, what I was doing actually was taking your own tactic and using it against you, coming up with things that weren't really said, as to your little "reading 101" comment, and putting them against you, just as you are to me. It's called an argument. And really, like I said, you're doing a great job of picking appart words, instead of the meaning. I applaud you for trying to keep up, but really, I do have to laugh at your way of trying to "win" in an argument that can't be proven one way or the other.

Further more, what is really funny is the fact that you pick appart my gramer. It's what people do when they can't find anything else wrong, or are getting mad because they feel threatened. It's ok though man, it's easy to be threatened by someone as foulable as me. I do make mistakes, in spelling and in what I say. I do let emotion get in my way. But gee, you just aren't making a lot of sence here man.

It's ok though Figgie, just as you're saying I'm grasping at straws, I see your posts going farther and farther into pointless rants of making fun of mis-spellings and finding anything else that could possibly be wrong with what I'm saying, and yet totally ignoring the facts. It's fun to watch you flounder around, ignoring some of the questions actually answered, and going right back to them.

Ok, back to the real questions here. Figgie, are you trying to prove that God does exist, doesn't exist, or God is real, he just fucked up? Because from what I'm hearing, you are saying God exists, but messed up. Or you're trying to prove to me he doesn't exist because of all the crap that's going on, like Cancer, and war, and all that.

Because if we actually stay on point, and don't go off on spelling errors, you might be surprised at what we come up with.

Stick to the point Figgie I'm still here man, keep it coming.

 

[3p141592654]

It has been created in a lab, and can also be modeled on a computer. In order to see it, we need to look at life forms that have much faster reproduction rates, so that many generations can be observed in our lifetime. This then restricts us to insects and micro-organisms.

I will give two concrete examples:

1) Bacteria can develop resistance to antibiotics, e.g. bacterial populations previously-sensitive to antibiotics become resistant. This type of resistance results from changes in the bacterial genome. Acquired resistance is driven by two genetic processes in bacteria: (1) mutation and selection (sometimes referred to as vertical evolution); (2) exchange of genes between strains and species (sometimes called horizontal evolution).

2) Computer optimization is built in to design software (CAD) for many disciplines. One powerful and common optimzation approach is call the random optimizer. The random optimizer randomly selects changes to, say, the values of components in an electrical circuit (mutation), and then evaluates whether these changes made an improvement or degradation to the circuit performance. Good changes are kept, bad changes are discarded (natural selection). This is repeated for millions of cycles and amazingly, an initial circuit that could not meet the original design goals is replaced by a circuit that is in spec and fully optimized.

True. Every one else can debate this untill they are blue in the face.

As for evolution having "no problems"?

REALLY?

Then tell me how in the world Dolphins evolved from prehistoric wolves?

Evolution, the Discover Channel and Animal plannet tells us so.

I see a big problem with that since its never been recreated in a lab.

 

[Furball]

Yeah, I would recommend reading robeats post for a better understanding of God and what us being made in His image means. As for women, They were created (as Cadman said) from man (that is what wo-man means in Hebrew- from man). That is the very origin of the word.
Woman being created from man, however, does not in any way mean that women are inferior. It simply means that they were made different. From the same stuff, but different. I don't know about you, but I'm sure as heck glad they are!
Women were created because man needed help. Adam was incomplete without her and God saw this. Women were created to be helpers to men. They were made to complement and complete them. Man is under God's protection and headship, women are under mans. PLEASE don't misunderstand this as meaning women are inferior. They just have different skills, different emotions, different bodies, and are better at different things. Its like in the military that there are intellegence officers that are geniuses and great at figguring stuff out and planning stuff but might get their butts kicked in battle. Just so, there are soldiers who would get killed if they didn't have a good battle plan given to them, but with it they kick butt.

Women are different from us, but we need each other because they can do things we can't on our own and vice versa

 

[cadman]

It has been created in a lab, and can also be modeled on a computer. In order to see it, we need to look at life forms that have much faster reproduction rates, so that many generations can be observed in our lifetime. This then restricts us to insects and micro-organisms.

I will give two concrete examples:

1) Bacteria can develop resistance to antibiotics, e.g. bacterial populations previously-sensitive to antibiotics become resistant. This type of resistance results from changes in the bacterial genome. Acquired resistance is driven by two genetic processes in bacteria: (1) mutation and selection (sometimes referred to as vertical evolution); (2) exchange of genes between strains and species (sometimes called horizontal evolution).

2) Computer optimization is built in to design software (CAD) for many disciplines. One powerful and common optimzation approach is call the random optimizer. The random optimizer randomly selects changes to, say, the values of components in an electrical circuit (mutation), and then evaluates whether these changes made an improvement or degradation to the circuit performance. Good changes are kept, bad changes are discarded (natural selection). This is repeated for millions of cycles and amazingly, an initial circuit that could not meet the original design goals is replaced by a circuit that is in spec and fully optimized.

I will agree that there is a such thing as to Evolve. But that's like saying I went out in the sun, got a sun tan, and now I've evolved into a tan guy. I didn't stay that way. Breading dogs is kind of the same way, but it's still a dog. It looks different, and does different things. It's an evolved process, but it is not Evolution.

 

[figgie]

Actually thanks figgie, what I was doing actually was taking your own tactic and using it against you, coming up with things that weren't really said, as to your little "reading 101" comment, and putting them against you, just as you are to me. It's called an argument. And really, like I said, you're doing a great job of picking appart words, instead of the meaning. I applaud you for trying to keep up, but really, I do have to laugh at your way of trying to "win" in an argument that can't be proven one way or the other.

Further more, what is really funny is the fact that you pick appart my gramer. It's what people do when they can't find anything else wrong, or are getting mad because they feel threatened. It's ok though man, it's easy to be threatened by someone as foulable as me. I do make mistakes, in spelling and in what I say. I do let emotion get in my way. But gee, you just aren't making a lot of sence here man.

It's ok though Figgie, just as you're saying I'm grasping at straws, I see your posts going farther and farther into pointless rants of making fun of mis-spellings and finding anything else that could possibly be wrong with what I'm saying, and yet totally ignoring the facts. It's fun to watch you flounder around, ignoring some of the questions actually answered, and going right back to them.

Ok, back to the real questions here. Figgie, are you trying to prove that God does exist, doesn't exist, or God is real, he just fucked up? Because from what I'm hearing, you are saying God exists, but messed up. Or you're trying to prove to me he doesn't exist because of all the crap that's going on, like Cancer, and war, and all that.

Because if we actually stay on point, and don't go off on spelling errors, you might be surprised at what we come up with.

Stick to the point Figgie I'm still here man, keep it coming.

actually the reading101 was correct and based on FACTS.

see as the loser always attempt to save face by trying to retort to an imcomplete cut and paste of mine so right there you are proved

1. that you infact deliberatly cut, edited and paste to suite your debate which just makes your retorts invalid
2. misread (how i don't know as this is not timed) in which case reading 101 does apply.
3. A bit of both. Selectively cut, edited and pasted and then misread what you did which makes the response invalid anyway as that is not what I asked.

that is the reason I cut and paste my entire post to show that you are infact deliberalty doing 1, or 2 or 3 or a combination thereof. Now once you get your selective cut and pasting in check. I will return to your banter.

 

[3p141592654]

A suntan will not alter your genome. If you cut your finger with a knife, you bleed, but your offspring will not be any different. If your genome is altered, then all your off spring are affected and will be different. Your comment suggests you do grasp even the very basic concepts.

I will agree that there is a such thing as to Evolve. But that's like saying I went out in the sun, got a sun tan, and now I've evolved into a tan guy. I didn't stay that way. Breading dogs is kind of the same way, but it's still a dog. It looks different, and does different things. It's an evolved process, but it is not Evolution.

 

[cadman]

actually the reading101 was correct and based on FACTS. ... which was totally not along with the point of the thread, but yeah.

see as the loser always attempt to save face by trying to retort to an imcomplete cut and paste of mine so right there you are proved All I've done is hit "quote". Oh by the way, you mis-spelled "Incomplete". :biglaugh:

1. that you infact deliberatly cut, edited and paste to suite your debate which just makes your retorts invalid Nope, just hit Quote, never changed anything other than that.
2. misread (how i don't know as this is not timed) in which case reading 101 does apply. Is that what loosers do?
3. A bit of both. Selectively cut, edited and pasted and then misread what you did which makes the response invalid anyway as that is not what I asked. Right, that's what you've been doing the entire time. Mis-reading, side stepping what I've been trying to make a point about, then picking appart words to try and make it a mistake.

that is the reason I cut and paste my entire post to show that you are infact deliberalty doing 1, or 2 or 3 or a combination thereof. Now once you get your selective cut and pasting in check. I will return to your banter.Actually what you're trying to do is say I cut and pasted, taking some things you said out. Nope, sorry you're wrong, The only think I ever did was hit Quote. Damn, again side stepping the original post idea and attacking personally. Well Figgie, believe what you want to, looks like you're leaving, and that sounds about like what you'd do. (please note the taunt, it is there. It's also oppinion.)

 

[cadman]

A suntan will not alter your genome. If you cut your finger with a knife, you bleed, but your offspring will not be any different. If your genome is altered, then all your off spring are affected and will be different. Your comment suggests you do grasp even the very basic concepts.

Bah, yeah you're right. It was kind of a statement, like just because I go into the sun alot, doesn't mean I'll have dark skinned babies.

And as for the other part, about dogs, when they breed, they do change. They change the look, and some breeds do different things. It's a proccess of getting something to evolve into something different. The concept, then, is to make something different than what it originally was, then have it's offspring show that change.

 

[figgie]

I will agree that there is a such thing as to Evolve. But that's like saying I went out in the sun, got a sun tan, and now I've evolved into a tan guy. I didn't stay that way. Breading dogs is kind of the same way, but it's still a dog. It looks different, and does different things. It's an evolved process, but it is not Evolution.

tanning not evolving?

You won't see it in your lifetime but it does happen.

see middle easters as to human evolution. They are naturally dark and it is not because it snows there. Go up to ireland and see why they are casper white. It is not because they have to survive 100+ degree weather year round.

 

[SupraDerk]

Initially mankind was in harmony with God--Adam and Eve knew no other way but to love God. Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden because they had broken God's law: do not eat of the tree of knowledge. God cannot tolerate sin; once sin and the knowledge of sin entered into humanity, the free ride was over--mankind then had the knowledge of what was right and wrong--Adam and Eve knew they had disobeyed God, so they hid from Him. But God couldn't just "undo" what they had done. Not only would that have been the easy way out, but it would have gone against the physical laws that He had created. And remember, God doesn't make mistakes.

That whole paragraph makes absolutely no sense.

1) If you create something, you surely CAN "undo" any flaws in it by either altering something within the system, or by starting over. I believe that's what Noah and his Arc was all about wasn't it? Could God not have started over there when he flooded the Earth? Could've gotten rid of the Sin that he so much can't tolerate

2) If he wrote the laws then he especially can change them. Their HIS laws

3) If God created everything, he still could've created a world without Sin. He could've made it so that sin was NEVER introduced. We can't fly right? Why not? Well following the logic of Christianity, it's because God didn't give us the ability. Well, if God can't tolerate sin, why give us the ability to sin?

I have to "create" tons of programs, and in my programs I don't add things that I cannot tolerate and I can always go back and fix fatal flaws or add things that I want to see in them. So the argument that the being that supposedly created everything can't go fix the things he created doesn't work

 

[Facime]

Women were created because man needed help. Adam was incomplete without her and God saw this. Women were created to be helpers to men. They were made to complement and complete them.

So let me ask you this (even though I already know your answer...)

If Man was created in gods image, and man "needed help" doesnt that infer that god is flawed? Why would god create something in his image that was incomplete? Why didnt he just make "MAN" complete in the first place?

Man is under God's protection and headship, women are under mans.

Are you serious? You actually believe this BS? So are you married? Do you have any female children by any chance? If so are you going to raise them to be subserviant to "man"


final question, what church do you belong to? I mean to say, I know you are christian but what "sect" of it do you consider yourself? you know, like Catholic/Protestant/Adventist/Hemanwomanhatersclub? (ok the last one was meant to be a joke )



Also Cadman...Im stil waiting for an answer to my last post.

 

[cadman]

tanning not evolving?

You won't see it in your lifetime but it does happen.

see middle easters as to human evolution. They are naturally dark and it is not because it snows there. Go up to ireland and see why they are casper white. It is not because they have to survive 100+ degree weather year round.

Awesome, I actually didn't know that. I thought it was just because of the sun, and their diet.

 

[SupraDerk]

Yeah totally, I wish he would too! But, just to destroy someone who has totally ruined your entire creation might not quite be justice enough. How about this, take that being that led astray 1/3 of all your creation, and tries to destroy everything you represent, and beat him at his own game, THEN, seperate him for all eternity along with all his "followers" from your presence. Way WAY worse of a punishment is to be in jail for like... ever and ever, to think of how you really screwed up and went against your creator. Personally I'd rather be put to death, but uh, you don't mess with God. (That's my humble interpretation of what the Bible says will happen, please take it for what it is:0)

So God is vengeful and spiteful? So he uses the beings that he created in his image to worship him...he uses them to get back at another being he created, locks them away in total isolation in a place that apparently no one wants to be for all of eternity, and this is supposed to be a display of his pure love?

Why punish me for using an ability that you gave me? That's like sitting someone in front of a red button for 100years and saying "you can push it if you want, I give you the ability"...and then punishing them for pushing it. Why not just get rid of the button? Why punish me?