Religion rant (if easily offended, should probably not enter)

[cadman]

Then why doesn't God just destoy Satan since he created him anyways? Seems like that would solve the problem wouldn't it? Hehe

Yeah totally, I wish he would too! But, just to destroy someone who has totally ruined your entire creation might not quite be justice enough. How about this, take that being that led astray 1/3 of all your creation, and tries to destroy everything you represent, and beat him at his own game, THEN, seperate him for all eternity along with all his "followers" from your presence. Way WAY worse of a punishment is to be in jail for like... ever and ever, to think of how you really screwed up and went against your creator. Personally I'd rather be put to death, but uh, you don't mess with God. (That's my humble interpretation of what the Bible says will happen, please take it for what it is:0)

 

[figgie]

What Cadman is saying is that man sinned and distanced himself from God way back with Adam and Eve.

Time for Figgie to join this forway.


so basically I am paying for someone elses incompetance?

wow what a great, understanding and benevollent god!!!

 

[cadman]

Time for Figgie to join this forway.


so basically I am paying for someone elses incompetance?

wow what a great god!!!

HAHA, yeah figgie, you are basically living in a world taken over by a very bad being. He tricked God's perfect creation (who were made perfect, but given a choice) into sin. So yeah we all have to live with that, the Devil introduced sin into the world by tricking Eve and Adam. So we all have to live with it.

But what God did was, instead of just destroying the entire earth and starting over, knew what he was going to do. The reason he gave us a choice was to beat the Devil at by his own devices. He gave the world to Satan, and basically said, "Hey, no matter how bad you try to "F" things up, they are my creation, and they will still choose me". And some of us do.

And your comment about "Wow what a great god". Well that's ok, because I can see how you'd think that. But hey, the other choice was for God to just wipe this whole univers off the face of existance. So um, yeah. I guess be happy you're here:biglaugh:

 

[figgie]

HAHA, yeah figgie, you are basically living in a world taken over by a very bad being. He tricked God's perfect creation (who were made perfect, but given a choice) into sin. So yeah we all have to live with that, the Devil introduced sin into the world by tricking Eve and Adam. So we all have to live with it.

But what God did was, instead of just destroying the entire earth and starting over, knew what he was going to do. The reason he gave us a choice was to beat the Devil at by his own devices. He gave the world to Satan, and basically said, "Hey, no matter how bad you try to "F" things up, they are my creation, and they will still choose me". And some of us do.

And your comment about "Wow what a great god". Well that's ok, because I can see how you'd think that. But hey, the other choice was for God to just wipe this whole univers off the face of existance. So um, yeah. I guess be happy you're here:biglaugh:

we all HAVE to?

no such thing as have too.

yes god is great, even to those dieing a painful death of cancer where morphine does not qwell the pain, praying for death and it never comes.

I find it funny how your "diety" rules with human like emotions. Wonder if that is coincindetal or actually part of the elusive puzzle.

as for him wiping this universe out.... well if he would have.. we would not be around here to type about it so meaning we would never have existed therefore no if's, shoulds or woulds (which is a common theme with you religous types). Speaking of themes, i see a parallel amongst you and other folks that tend to bend what they see to fit thier means but I will leave that for another thread/post.

 

[cadman]

we all HAVE to?

no such thing as have too. You have to pay taxes don't you? You have to breath right? Just jerkin ya around a bit bud, no hard feelings:biglaugh:

yes god is great, even to those dieing a painful death of cancer where morphine does not qwell the pain, praying for death and it never comes. So are you blaming this on God, or are you again trying to say there is not a God because this happens? This has already been over. There is pain in this world, and it's because man has sinned, and continues to do so. God allows this to happen. If God just came down and went "Ok, no more pain... Cancer? What cancer, it's no longer a problem now is it?" Um, it would suck to be you then, because guess what, he just proved himself, and you didn't believe it. So yeah, how is God going to fix this problem, and still give people the right to choose?

I find it funny how your "diety" rules with human like emotions. Wonder if that is coincindetal or actually part of the elusive puzzle. Not sure what you're trying to say here, but we are all human, and we all have emotion. Do we rule with hit? Yeah, like government rules with it. You still have a choice man, and no matter what your "emotion", you can choose to not let it effect you.

as for him wiping this universe out.... well if he would have.. we would not be around here to type about it so meaning we would never have existed therefore no if's, shoulds or woulds (which is a common theme with you religous types). Speaking of themes, i see a parallel amongst you and other folks that tend to bend what they see to fit thier means but I will leave that for another thread/post.
It's a common Theme? Please explain, how is it common? Explain to me how I'm bending what I see, and how you aren't bending what you see. Everyone bends what they see to fit their mind set. It's called "choosing".

Like I said, I'm just here to try and answer questions. You aren't asking questions you are stating your oppinion, and I'm totally fine with that. Just don't let this threat get out of hand again. Lets keep to the question thing. Seems to get less heated when that happens.:naughty:

 

[figgie]

Like I said, I'm just here to try and answer questions. You aren't asking questions you are stating your oppinion, and I'm totally fine with that. Just don't let this threat get out of hand again. Lets keep to the question thing. Seems to get less heated when that happens.:naughty:

I have to pay taxes??

no i don't. I Just get sent to jail if I don't which means no income for me. Of course if I become a bum with zero income means no taxes and no have to


so let me get this straight, my freind felt this "anguish" because two morons x time ago could not control themselves?? lol!!!

thank goodness the USA isn't ran this way!!! Otherwise people would still be paying for what thier family did during the slave era or the civil war!!!

as for emotional ruling, exactly my point. See what happens when emotions get brought into a decision??? You get ILLOGICAL choices that are influenced by emotion.

as for bending... sorry I don't beleive a story that was supposedly the word of god interpreted by a human and put on paper by a human. In a quality control world we would call that "introduction of human error" and as more times passes the more pronounced these errors become

as for the question/answer gimmick. I find that boring. I prefer to take topics like this head on

 

[cadman]

I have to pay taxes??

no i don't. I Just get sent to jail if I don't which means no income for me. Of course if I become a bum with zero income means no taxes and no have to Thank you for that. You are exactly right. You don't have to do it my way, but if you don't you go to hell. My oppinion. LOL Just like not paying taxes, you go to jail. Bah well, you know what I mean, it's all in my head right? hehehe


so let me get this straight, my freind felt this pain because two morons x time ago could not control themselves?? Yep!

wow thank goodness the US isn't ran this way!!! It's not? We pay all the time for someone else's stupid mistakes. Geez man, we're still paying taxes on stuff that is like 60 years old!! What happens in the past effects us in different ways, on different levels.

as for emotional ruling, exactly my point. See what happens when emotions get brought into a decision??? You get ILLOGICAL choices that are influenced by emotion. And you're saying this is a bad thing right? Have you ever seen Irobot? When the robot has to make the logical choice, with no emotion. It sucks.

as for bending... sorry I don't beleive a story that was supposedly the word of god interpreted by a human and put on paper by a human. In a quality control world we would call that "introduction of human error" and as more times passes the more pronounced these errors become That's ok, you don't have to believe it. That's the Beauty of it. It's there. It has been proven to be correct as far as history is concerned. Dead sea scrolls, and so on. Is human error a bad thing? Do you use sticky notes? That was human error. Do you use a light bulb? Do you even know how many times human error happened there? But do we learn? yep! I make mistakes all the time, but I learn from it. Do you make errors?

as for the question/answer gimmick. I find that boring. I prefer to take topics like this head on To each his own, if we can continue to debait (haha, bait... haha) in a calm manner, I'm all up for it. But WATCHOUT, they call me... the... masterdebator... oh yeah.

In fact... I'm masterdebating all over this thread right now...:aigo: :nono:

 

[figgie]

I have to pay taxes??

no i don't. I Just get sent to jail if I don't which means no income for me. Of course if I become a bum with zero income means no taxes and no have to Thank you for that. You are exactly right. You don't have to do it my way, but if you don't you go to hell. My oppinion. LOL Just like not paying taxes, you go to jail. Bah well, you know what I mean, it's all in my head right? hehehe

Wrong answer!!!

see, If I don't make enough money. I don't pay taxes. I get enough write off, no taxes. So not only are your "have too" assumptions highly inaccruate they are dead wrong.

so let me get this straight, my freind felt this pain because two morons x time ago could not control themselves?? Yep!

sorry i don't think so See below

wow thank goodness the US isn't ran this way!!! It's not? We pay all the time for someone else's stupid mistakes. Geez man, we're still paying taxes on stuff that is like 60 years old!! What happens in the past effects us in different ways, on different levels.

[/B]

We are not paying taxes on shit that is 60 year old. We are paying taxes because the goverment found out that it is a HUGE revenue generator 9read profit from people paying taxes). Does that mean it was wrong, nope not one bit actually. Those taxes is what funds the highly kick ass military that we have with all those nice toys and the pay for the soldiers also, the FHA loans that people get to buy a house, credits for people buying "green cars", and all other programs that give money away. [answer to the above]I am not paying for someone elses stupid mistake. Far from it actually. What I am doing is contributing to the well being of this country. I could choose not to do it in numerous way but it is not a have too.

As for adam and eve and me having to pay for thier fuck up. gee sounds exactly like boogie man scare tatics to keep the lemmings at bay.

as for emotional ruling, exactly my point. See what happens when emotions get brought into a decision??? You get ILLOGICAL choices that are influenced by emotion. And you're saying this is a bad thing right? Have you ever seen Irobot? When the robot has to make the logical choice, with no emotion. It sucks.

bad thing? ooh no, far from it. it is a dangerous thing as decision are made with happy emotion ("good") or a vengeful and full of hatred ("bad"). war start because someone emotions lead to a brash decision. Some of those decisions have started mass genocides, or externination of people that do not beleive in the same thing. Emotion brings out the worse in people when it comes to making decisions as well as good. BUT if one person has a road rage incident what is to stop them from pulling a gun a popping someone.

as for bending... sorry I don't beleive a story that was supposedly the word of god interpreted by a human and put on paper by a human. In a quality control world we would call that "introduction of human error" and as more times passes the more pronounced these errors become That's ok, you don't have to believe it. That's the Beauty of it. It's there. It has been proven to be correct as far as history is concerned. Dead sea scrolls, and so on. Is human error a bad thing? Do you use sticky notes? That was human error. Do you use a light bulb? Do you even know how many times human error happened there? But do we learn? yep! I make mistakes all the time, but I learn from it. Do you make errors?

not for anything but your history only goes back to the era of Jesus christ. There was plenty of history far beyond that time. The babylons (numerous god) , egyptians (with thier numerous gods then consolidated to 1 god Ra), Greeks (numerous gods) etc. so in otherwords your history only dates back 3000 some odd year (i am giving you 1000 more years then on record) years out of a possible 12+ billions year or only .00000025% of the total time

In statistics we call that, INSIGNIFICANT

as for the question/answer gimmick. I find that boring. I prefer to take topics like this head on To each his own, if we can continue to debait (haha, bait... haha) in a calm manner, I'm all up for it. But WATCHOUT, they call me... the... masterdebator... oh yeah.

apparently you have yet to see my tax threads and most other threads i post in I have heard master debater from countless others and all fall extremly short.

 

[Fuzz420]

"He who throws the first rock, and i shall smoketh it"
-Tyron Biggums

 

[cadman]

Um, someone makes a brash choice based on emotion and causes war, and then we pay taxes because of that choice. HAHA, yeah. No you're right, we don't have to pay taxes, it's a good thing that wasn't the only thing I stated. We also have to breath. Oops, I'm not dead wrong anymore huh? DOH!! That part was right!!! (and trust me, if you stop breathing, you'll pass out, then continue to breath. So that doesn't work either. Yes, you can kill yourself, then you don't have to breath, but that really wasn't the point, now was it?)

Based on this thread, you're very good at ignoring the actually bottom line, and making a big deal only out of things based on your oppinion, which can't be proven (or disproven). In that way, your debate, as it were, is only a personal attack on what I believe. I believe this and see this from the tone of your answers, or comments. And I also see that because you don't stick with the point of the thread, and you spin off on trying to prove I'm wrong about having to pay taxes, or breathing, that it is only a way to personally attack me, or what I say.

In this choice, I will only respond to an actual question from you, and debate that farther if I choose to. This is because I don't think we're making progress here, and I don't see actual useful information being displayed.

 

[Furball]

Furball, I found it really interesting to read about your visions.
Just out of curiosity, I hope you don't mind me asking: are there any cases of epilepsy in your family?
I recently watched an interesting documentary on TV, stating that there seems to be a close connection between people experiencing religious visions and their temporal lobes' activity. Higher activity in the temporal lobes is also connected to epilepsy, so many religious people experiencing visions have cases of so-called temporal lobe epilepsy in their families or are epileptic themselves.
On this background, scientists managed to make (non-religious) people have visions by stimulating their temporal lobes. Very interesting to say the least.
Of course it's unclear if this is a mechanism intentionally made by god, so it can't be used as an argument for or against the existence of (a) god.

No, my family has no cases of epilepsy. I myself am very healthy, mentally and physically.

 

[cadman]

By the way, The Bible does mention all these things. Greeks, Romans, it goes a lot into Egypt. And you know how the Bible starts out? "In the beginning..." So yeah that pretty much covers the entire point of history, even into the future. (Revelations)

 

[figgie]

Um, someone makes a brash choice based on emotion and causes war, and then we pay taxes because of that choice. HAHA, yeah. No you're right, we don't have to pay taxes, it's a good thing that wasn't the only thing I stated. We also have to breath. Oops, I'm not dead wrong anymore huh? DOH!! That part was right!!! (and trust me, if you stop breathing, you'll pass out, then continue to breath. So that doesn't work either. Yes, you can kill yourself, then you don't have to breath, but that really wasn't the point, now was it?)

Based on this thread, you're very good at ignoring the actually bottom line, and making a big deal only out of things based on your oppinion, which can't be proven (or disproven). In that way, your debate, as it were, is only a personal attack on what I believe. I believe this and see this from the tone of your answers, or comments. And I also see that because you don't stick with the point of the thread, and you spin off on trying to prove I'm wrong about having to pay taxes, or breathing, that it is only a way to personally attack me, or what I say.

In this choice, I will only respond to an actual question from you, and debate that farther if I choose to. This is because I don't think we're making progress here, and I don't see actual useful information being displayed.

no ignorance IS infact bliss..

emotions do effect choices. And since in your beleif system "god" has emotions then that same god will screw a choice up based on emotions. So with that in mind, then this god that bases decision on emotion has

1. Already fucked up and made numerous emotional based decision which lead to a huge error on his part (thought he didn't make errors??)
2. hasn't made an emotional decision (not very emotional then)

see just like everyone else that attempts to debate against me, my post always reels you in with logic that to understand you have to think on your own. This was actually a trick setup in which either way I got the answer I was looking for

emotional god, bad choice and has fucked up
no emotional decision, means god is not emotional

so which is it?

12 billion years plenty of time to make a fucked up choice

I find it quite comical that you side stepped when brought up with other society that had more than one diety in thier religous belief system.

BTW

don't worry. You are not the first nor will you be the last to lose to me in a "debate"

 

[figgie]

By the way, The Bible does mention all these things. Greeks, Romans, it goes a lot into Egypt. And you know how the Bible starts out? "In the beginning..." So yeah that pretty much covers the entire point of history, even into the future. (Revelations)

Of course it goes into egypt as they were the ones that kept the very people enslaved!!!!! Same with the Roman empire

DUH!!

as for entire history...

really?

so it covers how anglosaxons came to be.
How Mesopatamia came to be and ceased to exist even though thier religous belief system was one of NUMEROUS deities not one deity. Here let me guess, that is the reason they went away.
The very existance of dinosaurs (last i checked there was no specific accounts of such animals )
the Ice age.
etc??

Nostradufus.. err I mean nostradamus actually had revelations too!!!

See it is in a book and these we actually written by him!!! Except it doesn't sound like a 5 year old trying to speak in third person!

love the hipocracy in these threads.

 

[cadman]

no ignorance IS infact bliss..

emotions do effect choices. And since in your beleif system "god" has emotions then that same god will screw a choice up based on emotions. So with that in mind, then this god that bases decision on emotion has LOL and now you are saying there is a God and he makes mistakes right? So first you're telling me there is no God, then you tell me there is a God and he makes choices based on emotion. Sorry there is no way you can jump from Human's making those choices, to God doing the same thing. You're wrong. God made us "In his image" not "Just like Him". So no, God does NOT make choices based on Emotion as you can I would. You are wrong.

1. Already fucked up and made numerous emotional based decision which lead to a huge error on his part (thought he didn't make errors??) Nope, His plan all along was to be able to get his creation in heaven with him. That's what he created us for. He didn't fuck up, he planned it from the beginning. You're wrong again.
2. hasn't made an emotional decision (not very emotional then) Emotions are what we as humans have. They are the reason we aren't robots all doing the exact same thing. You're way off.

see just like everyone else that attempts to debate against me, my post always reels you in with logic that to understand you have to think on your own. This was actually a trick setup in which either way I got the answer I was looking for Yeah, funny how you can spin it off into something you've planned all along... oops you're wrong again. I don't see much Logic in what you say, I see your oppinion a whole lot though. Oops. you are wrong. Ack this is starting to be a trend with you.

emotional god, bad choice and has fucked up
no emotional decision, means god is not emotional See above. Oops. you're wrong. See, sounds like you made a wrong choice based on your oppinion again. Sound familiar?

so which is it? It's called a debate, I can't Prove God exists, and you use your own oppinion to put words in my mouth and try to tell me what God is.

12 billion years plenty of time to make a fucked up choice See, yet another statement that can not be proven.

I find it quite comical that you side stepped when brought up with other society that had more than one diety in thier religous belief system. Side step? Nope, just waiting for you to dig your own hole that's all.

BTW

don't worry. You are not the first nor will you be the last to lose to me in a "debate" I never worry, you just got owned.

 

[robeats91t]

So a dog can love God and potentially go to heaven or deny him and potentially go to hell? I don't believe that. If so, why isn't there church for animals?

Dude, all dogs go to heaven...everyone knows that. Disney reminded us of that back in the 80s.

Seriously though, from what I remember of the story of creation, God created man in His image--with a soul. Plants, animals, amoebic goo, whatever--were not made in His image. They were made more as stage scenery, made beautiful and tasty, for our enjoyment and His.

And still, if he loves us so much, why would he give us the opportunity to deny him and spend all of eternity isolated from him when he could've easily just not given us free will and ensured we'd all spend eternity WITH him?

Initially mankind was in harmony with God--Adam and Eve knew no other way but to love God. Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden because they had broken God's law: do not eat of the tree of knowledge. God cannot tolerate sin; once sin and the knowledge of sin entered into humanity, the free ride was over--mankind then had the knowledge of what was right and wrong--Adam and Eve knew they had disobeyed God, so they hid from Him. But God couldn't just "undo" what they had done. Not only would that have been the easy way out, but it would have gone against the physical laws that He had created. And remember, God doesn't make mistakes.

In reference to heaven vs. hell, from a non-Christian point of view maybe it should be more like "with God" vs. "without God" because I see a lot of non-Christians getting upset and offended. You've chosen against walking with God, and heck, I know many non-religious people who don't believe in an afterlife. So what does it matter to you if someone disagrees with your choice? I can understand if they're red in the face from yelling "you're going to hell" at you, but they're wrong for passing judgement on you--"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

Many people I know try to make heaven for themselves in this life, and when you look at some of them they're doing pretty good for themselves. The downsides to this however, are many. Man's vision of paradise is flawed and cannot be attained easily by just anyone. In addition, our time on this earth is finite...so even if by chance a man or woman attains nirvana, they've only got so long to enjoy it. Plus, humanity is so fragile--simple mistakes end lives and change fortunes for the worse all the time. Still, God allows us to choose this path for ourselves if we desire.

The free will He offers us is not like freedom from slavery or opression. A man may be born into slavery, yes. That is his plight--an unfortunate one, but [one cannot change what they are born into]. The free will God offers us allows that man to rise up against slavery, to choose to fight it mentally and/or physically. If we did not have this low-level freedom to choose, then we would all be slaves to inputs from the environment around us; slaves to causality.

Argh this thread is just pointless lock it I say, we are getting nowhere fast...

I'll leave you with this note, if god is so great why do 7m's have BHG's...

I couldn't give a hoot what religion you are but you come and knock on my door and try to tell me about it you sure as hell are going to get a very cold reception. This is for one reason I respect Islam is because they don't try and shove it down others throats.

God didn't make the 7M...and why do you think this is going nowhere fast? Look, I think we'll all agree that there have been awful things done in the name of religion, past and present--ALL religions included. Religion is flawed; it's tenets come from a higher power and may be pure, but they are interpreted and enforced by flawed men. I agree with you 7MA61 when you say the Christian church is corrupt; and believe me it saddens my heart deeply. While man makes many terrible awful mistakes, ruining God's goodness in the eyes of non-believers is the worst thing any "Christian" can do.

 

[figgie]

....enforced by flawed men.

last I checked according to those little stories.... man (i love how it is just the male counterpart), was created in the image of god.

So if we have flaws. then so does god. Otherwise we were NOT created in the image of god and it makes the bible incorrect. If we were created in the image of god. Then god is flawed making the bible incorrect once again.

 

[cadman]

last I checked according to those little stories.... man (i love how it is just the male counterpart), was created in the image of god.

So if we have flaws. then so does god. Otherwise we were NOT created in the image of god and it makes the bible incorrect. If we were created in the image of god. Then god is flawed making the bible incorrect once again.

Ok Figgie, that was a little dumb don't you think? can you not come up with a better debatable subject than that? Are you even listening or do you just blurt out the first thing that comes to your mind?

This is getting a little easier... *clears throat* God created man in His likeness. That means we have 2 arms, 2 legs and a head. We weren't flawed until we chose to be. Damn Figgie, sounds like you're letting emotions get in the way of your debate skills man!

Oh, and if you really knew those little stories, God actually only created Man to begin with. Eve, or Woman, came from Adam's Rib, and shaped by God.

 

[robeats91t]

last I checked according to those little stories.... man (i love how it is just the male counterpart), was created in the image of god.

So if we have flaws. then so does god. Otherwise we were NOT created in the image of god and it makes the bible incorrect. If we were created in the image of god. Then god is flawed making the bible incorrect once again.

Man was created in the likeness of God, with the ability to reason, with awareness of his surroundings, and with intelligence. The word likeness does not translate literally, I'm pretty sure the author didn't mean God pulled out the mold he was made from so that he could make us. God is not flesh, it states in John 4:24 that "God is Spirit." Plus, we were given free will, just as God has. So how can one free-willed being be held accountable for the actions of another? That's like saying that since IJ builds a badass engine, his dad must be able to do it too--all because they look, talk and even dress the same, so surely they're identical.

 

[Facime]

This is getting a little easier... *clears throat* God created man in His likeness. That means we have 2 arms, 2 legs and a head. We weren't flawed until we chose to be. Damn Figgie, sounds like you're letting emotions get in the way of your debate skills man!

woah woah woah....(yeah Im still lurking in the background)....did you just say that god has arms and legs...and a head?



I call :bsflag:

I think you need to elaborate on that one please!

Oh, and if you really knew those little stories, God actually only created Man to begin with. Eve, or Woman, came from Adam's Rib, and shaped by God.

and please elaborate on this topic as well...please explain to me the significance of this tidbit of lore. Are you inferring woman is inferior to man? or are you saying woman is kinda like...man2.0...or wait, what are you saying?