Religion rant (if easily offended, should probably not enter)
- Thread starter SupraDerk
- Start date
figgie said:cadman
you too!!
lmao
it is deader than dead here... we have a state fai going on might head over to that and eat fried foods!!
btw
for all you science junkie
god might not be over our head but actually below it
The "god" particle (Higgs Boson) is what is theorized to bestow mass on all particles.
Yeah, most people aren't even here today, going for that long 4 day weekend I guess:naughty:
Nice, we have a state fair going on here too. Was actually thinking about cutting out a bit early, and seeing about heading there for some night life with the wife
SupraDerk said:
If you believe in science, you dont have to believe that there is no existence beyond this plain. One of the fundamental principals of science is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. All things (yes I mean rocks, plants, etc.) are basically matter and energy. When we die our matter may take another form but our energy still exists. What do you think that energy does? Some might say it just dissipates into the universe. I think our energy is just like the cells in our bodies (see previous posts regarding this analogy). I believe it has a "signature" of what and who we are. This energy (our "spirit" if you will) is free to return back into the system and basically get recycled (ala Hinduism) or become something else. Either way, I believe there is an existence after the physical body dies....I just dont expect to see any "pearly gates" there.
And...DAMN! I cant believe I got sucked back into this discussion...BLEH!
SupraDerk said:
God knew before He created us that we'd mess up; he didn't make us perfect beings. God made mankind in His image so that man would honor Him. He made us knowing that some would turn away from Him, and some would choose to honor Him. He wants children who actively love Him and try to follow His tenets, not robots that are programmed to sing His praises.
He could've undone the world and started over, but He has other plans. He undid sin in a way by sending Christ Jesus to pay the price for man's sin. It wasn't really a "Ctrl+Z" move since mankind still has to live with sin, but here again it comes down to choice. He wanted to display His love for man by overcoming death for us.
He has a plan and it's so complex that man can't understand it. Another reason why faith is so important in Christianity.
Here are a few verses that maybe help explain the differences in our interpretations on Christianity?
"But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means. We who have the Spirit understand these things, but others can't understand us at all." (1 Corinthians 2:14-15).
theWeezL said:
Furball's brother here
Beautifully summed weazel! Thank you for your intellegence. I definitely appreciate that even if our beliefs differ.
theWeezL said:
Oh I know that just because I believe in science I don't have to believe their is no existence beyond here. I know that energy has to be conserved, but through Eintein's theory of relativity, we can see that energy can become matter and matter can become energy. So I think that every part of us will go on to be something else...I just don't expect to retain my "consciouness" haha, I guess my personality, when I die.
theWeezL said:So let me ask you this (even though I already know your answer...)
If Man was created in gods image, and man "needed help" doesnt that infer that god is flawed? Why would god create something in his image that was incomplete? Why didnt he just make "MAN" complete in the first place?
Are you serious? You actually believe this BS? So are you married? Do you have any female children by any chance? If so are you going to raise them to be subserviant to "man"
final question, what church do you belong to? I mean to say, I know you are christian but what "sect" of it do you consider yourself? you know, like Catholic/Protestant/Adventist/Hemanwomanhatersclub? (ok the last one was meant to be a joke
Also Cadman...Im stil waiting for an answer to my last post.
Furball's bro again
Haha, appreciate the little rascals joke.
I never meant to imply that women are subservient to man in any way in my post. I tried to be careful NOT to imply this in fact. I said God made women to be helpers to men. The same word is used in reference to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our helper, completer, and yet is God Himself (kind of confusing, I know and don't think the point of this thread is to debate the Trinity). Yet the Holy Spirit is indeed under the headship of Father God. Not less -EQUAL with Him, yet under His headship. Like I stated earlier in my military analogy, a soldier might be under the authority of their commanding officer, but they are in no way less equal! Just different abilities. I plan to be married to my girlfriend in less than a year and she understands my viewpoints and agrees wholeheartedly. My intent is not to make anyone subservient to the other, but to complement each other so there is a full circle of love and completion. Does that make sence?
SupraDerk said:...I just don't expect to retain my "consciouness" haha, I guess my personality, when I die.
Right...you will become a different form of "yourself" ...there would be no need to keep your "personality". Personality comes from the root, person, and therefore refers to the physical being. Think of your spirit or "soul" as a pure form of you...you simply go back to being that.
BTW, does anyone ever intend to reply to the actual scientific arguments I posed earlier in this thread? I honestly would be interested to at least get peoples thoughts on those, whether or not they have the biological background to fully talk about it or not. I honestly am just curious. People talk about evolution having so much proof but I just don't see it at the fundamental levels. I really have enjopyed much of the other conversations here though. Thanks guys
-furball's bro
-furball's bro
My short thought and agreement with women is, the higher you hold them up, the higher they hold you up. I come home and at times I'm just thinking "What can I do to make my wife smile when she gets home?" If I make her smile, she makes me smile. If I make her feel better, she makes me feel better. She is my emotional strong point. She supports me in ways no one else can.
In that way, and in my Christian view, the woman is to be held in higher regard than diamonds, and a good woman is better than all the gold in the world. They are not serving men, they are supporting men to make men, and women better.
In that way, and in my Christian view, the woman is to be held in higher regard than diamonds, and a good woman is better than all the gold in the world. They are not serving men, they are supporting men to make men, and women better.
theWeezL said:
Hey Weezl, I'm not trying to attack your views here, please don't take this question as that. Just let me ask, if there was a possibility that you could spend eternity in a place so beautiful you can't even think it now, without pain, no suffering, with a new body, but retaining your knowlage and spirit, wouldn't that be better than just... I don't know, ending?
theWeezL said:
Haha, here's how I think about it. Have you ever played Final Fantasy VII? If you have then you know about the Lifestream. If not, then the lifestream was a flow of "soul" I guess would be the best way to put it.
I think the universe is much like that. A flow of energy, and over time things become a part of the energy flow and things come from that energy flow. And from the flow comes the "soul." But once your "soul" rejoins that flow, that's it. There will never be another one like it.
Kind of like you have 100 pennies that make up YOUR dollar. You throw your 100 pennies into a flow of infinite pennies. You can retrieve a 100 more pennies, but that dollar will never be the same.
Let me ask this question then. You almost seem to link the spirit with the energy that exists around us. We can touch hit, we can feel it. But we feel it with more of the same energy, our bodies. We log it as a feeling through energy changed in our brain. But, what makes us make choices, the spirit?
If I were to go that way, I'd say our bodies are only carriers for our spirit. That spirit is not of this world, but our bodies allow us to experience it because our spirits are connected to our bodies. Once our bodies die, our spirits must go somewhere. They are not part of the energy of the earth, but they are part of another world, another dimension...
If I were to go that way, I'd say our bodies are only carriers for our spirit. That spirit is not of this world, but our bodies allow us to experience it because our spirits are connected to our bodies. Once our bodies die, our spirits must go somewhere. They are not part of the energy of the earth, but they are part of another world, another dimension...
Furball said:
Well it makes sense and yet it is flawed. You use the military as an example of "headship" as you call it. Ask any officer if his subordinates are allowed to think even for a second that they are his equal. Equal in humanity maybe yes, but not in any way, shape or form in terms of subserviance. It's an officers DUTY to command his men. Its a soldiers DUTY to obey that order. In what way do you not see this as subservience?
And further into that point, if you can analgogize that your relationship with your girlfriend is in anyway even remotely analogous with the military then I feel sorry for your girlfriend, and please dont take this as any kind of insult, but I also feel sorry for you. Your girlfriend is gonna wake up one day and decide she no longer wants to be under your "headship" and trust me, its not gonna be pretty.
I dont want to belabor this point, but I really think you've shown me just exactly where you see women fitting into your belief system, and its not the first time I've heard it. When I was growing up in a very strict Catholic household I was taught that wives were to "honor and obey". This rational was pretty much the norm back in the 50's and 60's. Guess what? It doesnt fly today! My mother and father sleep in seperate rooms and have now for years. They cant divorce because thats a "sin" niether of them are willing to commit. So they soldier on (yes the reference was intended) in a loveless marriage and for them..."obey" is not really an issue anymore.
Im guessing you met your wife through your church?
SupraDerk said:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SupraDerk again.
Very well put, and an interesting metaphore I will think on.
Natural selection just chooses the strongest set of characteristics available for a given set of boundary conditions. When you change those conditions, and then change them back, it should be no surprise that the previous optimized traits re-emerge. That is the very tenant of TOE, and is in fact expected. It does not prove any point I can think of.
Okay, now onto your other points...
Not true. I don't even no why this is an issue, as mutation is not controversial, or you think it is? Please cite your proof.
Please explain your proof of this assertion. Hint, it is impossible and false.
Mutations are not already stored in the system. Simple thermodynamcis can be used to disprove this, but I''ll lay it out in simpler terms. If a species were forced to have the apriori genetic solution to every problem that might be thrown at it, then it would need an infinite amount of genetic material to be prepared. You are, maybe on purpose, mixing genetic variability within a species (gene frequency), with random genetic changes (mutations) that allow for new capabilities not inherent in any of the existing population.
Okay, now onto your other points...
Furball said:
Not true. I don't even no why this is an issue, as mutation is not controversial, or you think it is? Please cite your proof.
Furball said:
Please explain your proof of this assertion. Hint, it is impossible and false.
Furball said:
Mutations are not already stored in the system. Simple thermodynamcis can be used to disprove this, but I''ll lay it out in simpler terms. If a species were forced to have the apriori genetic solution to every problem that might be thrown at it, then it would need an infinite amount of genetic material to be prepared. You are, maybe on purpose, mixing genetic variability within a species (gene frequency), with random genetic changes (mutations) that allow for new capabilities not inherent in any of the existing population.
Furball said:
cadman said:
I'm not entirely sure what the question is. Who says there can't be different types of energy flowing? If you look around the physical world you see many types of energy. Heat, electrical, gravitational, potential, kinetic, etc. and like I said before...from Einstein's theory...E=mc^2 ... energy and matter can be made from one another. So all of the different types of energy could possibly combine to create matter. And what are we? A lump of matter, haha.
I don't know if I really explained anything for you, haha
cadman said:
your thinking way too dimentionally.
Seperating the spirit from the body is well thought out however and its exaxtly what I was trying to get across. I think you just went one step too far when you inferred another dimension or "world". Whats wrong with this one? I simply dont have a problem with "spirit" staying right here.
Let me try this analogy on ya...natural gas is matter that is easily converted into energy. You cant see it, you cant touch it, and in its natural form you cant smell it, but its still there right? Light a match and you will know its there. Now this gas has been converted to energy. Its not in a different dimension or different world is it? Once the heat of the explosion dissipates you cant feel it anymore either. But by the Law of Conservation we know that it still exists.
It is interesting to look at software in general. It is something that takes a great deal of energy to create, but in the end it is just intangible information. It has not mass or physical being, although you can put it on media that has physical properties. Once destroyed it is gone forever, never to come back.
DNA is really the software that runs on our protein based computers! What makes humans who we are, if very much the software programmed in our brains, supported on a genetically-defined programmable foundation.
DNA is really the software that runs on our protein based computers! What makes humans who we are, if very much the software programmed in our brains, supported on a genetically-defined programmable foundation.
SupraDerk said:
Pie, This is all good information, however, it doesn't prove that Evolution exists either. There has never been a documented case where male and female beings split off from their type to form an entirely new type of being. I know this is extreme, but it's an example. A dog has never had a baby with a cat and made a Dat or a Cog, then continued to mate and make other Dats and Cogs.
I remember a story where they were trying to mutate a fly. They actually suceeded in doing so, and the fly came out with missformed wings, and it couldn't fly. They then tried to say that this was evolution. However, that fly's offspring came out normal, with no deformaties.
They have never proven evolution. All they have tried to do is come up with bones and other things to try and find a "missing link". In no way has documentation been found, or made that shows we could have been around for Billions of years.
I remember a story where they were trying to mutate a fly. They actually suceeded in doing so, and the fly came out with missformed wings, and it couldn't fly. They then tried to say that this was evolution. However, that fly's offspring came out normal, with no deformaties.
They have never proven evolution. All they have tried to do is come up with bones and other things to try and find a "missing link". In no way has documentation been found, or made that shows we could have been around for Billions of years.