Religion rant (if easily offended, should probably not enter)

[figgie]

actually the reading101 was correct and based on FACTS. ... which was totally not along with the point of the thread, but yeah.

see as the loser always attempt to save face by trying to retort to an imcomplete cut and paste of mine so right there you are proved All I've done is hit "quote". Oh by the way, you mis-spelled "Incomplete". :biglaugh:

1. that you infact deliberatly cut, edited and paste to suite your debate which just makes your retorts invalid Nope, just hit Quote, never changed anything other than that.
2. misread (how i don't know as this is not timed) in which case reading 101 does apply. Is that what loosers do?

[/I]

shouldn't you be asking yourself this very question??

3. A bit of both. Selectively cut, edited and pasted and then misread what you did which makes the response invalid anyway as that is not what I asked. Right, that's what you've been doing the entire time. Mis-reading, side stepping what I've been trying to make a point about, then picking appart words to try and make it a mistake.

me side stepping? hmmm

lets go back shall we.

emotions do effect choices. And since in your beleif system "god" has emotions then that same god will screw a choice up based on emotions. So with that in mind, then this god that bases decision on emotion has LOL and now you are saying there is a God and he makes mistakes right? So first you're telling me there is no God, then you tell me there is a God and he makes choices based on emotion. Sorry there is no way you can jump from Human's making those choices, to God doing the same thing. You're wrong. God made us "In his image" not "Just like Him". So no, God does NOT make choices based on Emotion as you can I would. You are wrong.

their is your first reading101 mistake.

your little ignorant replies have yet to answer the basic question I asked.

Is god emotional or not?

you have sidestepped that answer and still have not answered either way. But alas here is your dilema.

Either way your answer is not a good answer for you or your faith as the question can not be answered correctly. Both answers lead to a right answer for me. Btw you can thank Aristotle for that technique. Works quite well.

that is the reason I cut and paste my entire post to show that you are infact deliberalty doing 1, or 2 or 3 or a combination thereof. Now once you get your selective cut and pasting in check. I will return to your banter.Actually what you're trying to do is say I cut and pasted, taking some things you said out. Nope, sorry you're wrong, The only think I ever did was hit Quote. Damn, again side stepping the original post idea and attacking personally. Well Figgie, believe what you want to, looks like you're leaving, and that sounds about like what you'd do. (please note the taunt, it is there. It's also oppinion.)

my suggestion,

once you hit quote try to understand what is said. If you don't, ask and I will be more than happy to clarify. Like that post I quoted you replying to, not sure how you inferred that I believed in god when I specifically (and knowingly, since most of you guys have a habit of doing that) stated "Your Belief system" with your being the key operative word.

 

[cadman]

So let me ask you this (even though I already know your answer...)

If Man was created in gods image, and man "needed help" doesnt that infer that god is flawed? Why would god create something in his image that was incomplete? Why didnt he just make "MAN" complete in the first place?


You know, I thought about that too. Go a little deeper into the story, and you can almost see why it happened that way though. God sent Adam all over the place naming the animals and trying to find a good helper. He looked all over, but couldn't find one. But just in that, it doesn't mean God forgot to make him complete, he wanted Adam to yearn for his mate, God wanted Adam to see first hand what he could do. And woman, in my oppinion, is even more special than man, because she was created to perfectly fit with Man.

Are you serious? You actually believe this BS? So are you married? Do you have any female children by any chance? If so are you going to raise them to be subserviant to "man" No, not Subserviant, more as a guid and a helper for the Man. I still believe that Women have all the power. We guys are a sucker for a strong woman who knows how to use what God gave her.


final question, what church do you belong to? I mean to say, I know you are christian but what "sect" of it do you consider yourself? you know, like Catholic/Protestant/Adventist/Hemanwomanhatersclub? (ok the last one was meant to be a joke ) I actually don't know, I'm not Catholic, I don't think I'm Protestant, I go to a Living Way Bible church.



Also Cadman...Im stil waiting for an answer to my last post.

I'll look back and try to find it, I'm really sorry man I didn't see your question.

 

[cadman]

Actually Figgie, I already did answer that question. Emotions are what Humans use. Now, as soon as you tell me what an "emotion" is, and why you think it's a bad thing, or a good thing, we can continue.

 

[figgie]

Actually Figgie, I already did answer that question. Emotions are what Humans use. Now, as soon as you tell me what an "emotion" is, and why you think it's a bad thing, or a good thing, we can continue.

no you apprently are not understanding still

the question as it stands.

does god have emotions or not? Period nothing else.

I am not asking nor do i care what the answer pertains to homosapiens.

 

[cadman]

woah woah woah....(yeah Im still lurking in the background)....did you just say that god has arms and legs...and a head?



I call :bsflag:

I think you need to elaborate on that one please!

Ah, this one! Thank you. Yes the Bible says "Let us make Man, in our own image." It also says that God walked with Adam in the Guarden.

 

[Furball]

It has been created in a lab, and can also be modeled on a computer. In order to see it, we need to look at life forms that have much faster reproduction rates, so that many generations can be observed in our lifetime. This then restricts us to insects and micro-organisms.

I will give two concrete examples:

1) Bacteria can develop resistance to antibiotics, e.g. bacterial populations previously-sensitive to antibiotics become resistant. This type of resistance results from changes in the bacterial genome. Acquired resistance is driven by two genetic processes in bacteria: (1) mutation and selection (sometimes referred to as vertical evolution); (2) exchange of genes between strains and species (sometimes called horizontal evolution).

2) Computer optimization is built in to design software (CAD) for many disciplines. One powerful and common optimzation approach is call the random optimizer. The random optimizer randomly selects changes to, say, the values of components in an electrical circuit (mutation), and then evaluates whether these changes made an improvement or degradation to the circuit performance. Good changes are kept, bad changes are discarded (natural selection). This is repeated for millions of cycles and amazingly, an initial circuit that could not meet the original design goals is replaced by a circuit that is in spec and fully optimized.

Alright, Furball's brother here again.
I would like to say that I do appreciate you attempt to look for solid scientific evidence rather than just argue from a viewpoint with nothing to back it up. Now I am no genius, but I do have a degree in biology/ pre-med and my roomate is a molecular geneticist who is a bit of a genius.

As to your proofs of evolution- I agree with you that if you were to find "proof" for evolution (macroevolution at least) you would have to do it with bacteria or something of the like. HOWEVER, I do not think bacterial resistance to antibiotics proves this at all. It is just another instance of natural selection. I do not know if your data is based on your actual experimentation or not, but mine is. When bacteria is introduced into an antibiotic environment, most of the bacteria dies. Most, but not all. There are a few "mutants" as you might call them that survive, and reproduce successfully for generations. Have you ever re-introduced this new strain of bacteria into a regular agar? A "normal" environment? Once again, most of this new strain will die. The old strain, then, will begin to populate again, since it is actually the stronger of the two strains. There is nothing to attack the new strain of bacteria, but it is not as strong so it dies off.

In the beginning of all these experiments, the bacteria used has ALL THE GENETIC INFORMATION necessary for these changes. There are just changes in gene frequencies after this point. There are bunches of wonderful examples of this as you know. NO NEW GENETIC INFORMATION is EVER "created" however. Mutations always produce a weaker species, and changes of gene frequecy are just that, by definition. Nothing new is ever formed and nothing greater or more advanced could ever come to be. Everything we do see already has the genetic information for it in the original bacteria or group of cells. Some things are just recessive, just like the antibiotic-resistant strain was originally.

If any of this was confusing or vague, forgive me. Just ask and I'll try and clear things up a little :icon_bigg

 

[SupraDerk]

Ah, this one! Thank you. Yes the Bible says "Let us make Man, in our own image." It also says that God walked with Adam in the Guarden.

Man was created in the likeness of God, with the ability to reason, with awareness of his surroundings, and with intelligence. The word likeness does not translate literally, I'm pretty sure the author didn't mean God pulled out the mold he was made from so that he could make us. God is not flesh, it states in John 4:24 that "God is Spirit." Plus, we were given free will, just as God has. So how can one free-willed being be held accountable for the actions of another? That's like saying that since IJ builds a badass engine, his dad must be able to do it too--all because they look, talk and even dress the same, so surely they're identical.

hehe

 

[figgie]

hehe

me personally i like

So how can one free-willed being be held accountable for the actions of another?

that what I would like to know as god doesn't see it this way!

 

[cadman]

no you apprently are not understanding still

the question as it stands.

does god have emotions or not? Period nothing else.

I am not asking nor do i care what the answer pertains to homosapiens.

I don't know for sure Figgie, I don't think you can compare God's emotions to man's emotions. It's actually a good question. yeah, I think God does have emotions. He loves us. He gets angry with his people when they aren't doing the right thing. He is forgiving. But, he doesn't make mistakes like we do when we get all emotional.

 

[cadman]

hehe

and maybe you think God can't take a human form?

 

[figgie]

I don't know for sure Figgie, I don't think you can compare God's emotions to man's emotions. It's actually a good question. yeah, I think God does have emotions. He loves us. He gets angry with his people when they aren't doing the right thing. He is forgiving. But, he doesn't make mistakes like we do when we get all emotional.

thank you!

ok if that is infact true how can a round of "anger" not affect his judgement when one of his little lackies gets out of line or whatever else sets god off at that particular time? Anger in humans is not good as that is when loss of control happens. Is god immune to this "effect"? If he is then why would he even get angry to begin with?

All he would have to do is drop the hand of god and make a gooooalll... eerrr wait wrong time. Drop the hand of god and slap said lackies and no anger is needed.




again in all the texts there is a lot of "human emotions" pertaining to this being that if they are infact true I would be distrubed that someone can basically kill you because he had a bad second/day/week etc.

Because emotions travel from "good" to "bad". one might be more pronounced then the other but both still do reside (the choice thing).

 

[SupraDerk]

and maybe you think God can't take a human form?

What would be the point? Moses heard God talk to him, so why go through the trouble of turning yourself into a human, then coming to Earth when you can just talk to Adam from anywhere?

And anyways, the bible would prove itself wrong by contradiction then. All you need is ONE instance where a condition is false. If God turned himself into human form, he would be human. Where the bible apparently says that God is spirit. So when God is in human form...he is not spirit.

 

[cadman]

thank you!

ok if that is infact true how can a round of "anger" not affect his judgement when one of his little lackies gets out of line or whatever else sets god off at that particular time? Anger in humans is not good as that is when loss of control happens. Is god immune to this "effect"?




again in all the texts there is a lot of "human emotions" pertaining to this being that if they are infact true I would be distrubed that someone can basically kill you because he had a bad second/day/week etc.

Because emotions travel from "good" to "bad". one might be more pronounced then the other but both still do reside (the choice thing).

Ah, ok I see where you're going. Emotions effect us differently because we have sinned. So we actually have a chance to do bad things with our emotions. God hasn't sinned, He is perfect. His emotional reactions are perfect because they lack the infection of sin. He feels anger, and he does something about it. We feel anger, and now we have choices, we can do something good with it, or something bad with it.

 

[cadman]

What would be the point? Moses heard God talk to him, so why go through the trouble of turning yourself into a human, then coming to Earth when you can just talk to Adam from anywhere?

And anyways, the bible would prove itself wrong by contradiction then. All you need is ONE instance where a condition is false. If God turned himself into human form, he would be human. Where the bible apparently says that God is spirit. So when God is in human form...he is not spirit.

I'm not sure how you see God going through the trouble as the Bible contredicting its self. God turning himself into a Human form does not make him human. Wax figures look like humans too, but they aren't. Do you see what I mean? Yes, God is spirit, that doesn't mean he can't look like a man. You might think of a spirit as some little whisp floating through the air. But we never would know because we can't see them. If we have seen them, they look human... like a ghost? The... Holy Ghost?

 

[Facime]

Derk, the answer will once again be "free will"

you see Christianity has been around a long time...and like anything that been around that long there have been countless number of scholoars and religious leaders to think of all the answers to reasonable questions like yours. You can always expect the patented answers because they have stood the test of time. Well its really quite easy to stand the test of time, because they weave themselves around in a little circle. You wont get any new answers, and you wont change the people who believe what they believe.


I can sum up all the questions about god that have been posed in this thread:

Why do you believe in god? - because ive seen his love.
If he loves you why did he allow sin? - Because he gave us free will.
Why is there suffering in the world? - because free will allows for sin, and sin breeds evil...evil creates suffering.
Why did god give us free will then? - because love without free will is pointless.
Then why did god create us in the first place - he created us in his image out of love.


lather, rinse, repeat!

The real question that should be posed here is not, does god exist?...the real question is why does man need to believe in god. The answer is really quite simple and its already been said by a number of the christians that have posted in this thread - Because its just TOO scary to think that life rests on the edge of a cosmic razor blade! Religion provides comfort from the fear.

Christians would rather believe in god than think that random chance has anything to do with their lives. If it gives them comfort...then just let them!

The thing is...life isnt really about random chance. Its about "nature" for lack of a better word. The laws of the universe govern existence. Without the laws of science...there wouldnt be anything holding this ball of dirt in space right at the optimum zone to promote life. Atoms wouldnt have fields holding the pieces together and matter wouldnt exist at all. I think christians will tell you..."THATS WHY I BELIEVE IN GOD...its too beautifull to not be by intelligent design!" I say, its too perfect and beautiful to have been created by anything intelligent...its perfect because the laws of nature have made it that way over the course of 15 billion years (that is a rough estimate at how old the universe actually is).

Its my opinion...let them have theirs

 

[cadman]

wow, that's awesome. Weezl... I couldn't have sumed it up better.

Even though I think God could create something that perfect, that's my oppinion too.

 

[SupraDerk]

Derk, the answer will once again be "free will"

you see Christianity has been around a long time...and like anything that been around that long there have been countless number of scholoars and religious leaders to think of all the answers to reasonable questions like yours. You can always expect the patented answers because they have stood the test of time. Well its really quite easy to stand the test of time, because they weave themselves around in a little circle. You wont get any new answers, and you wont change the people who believe what they believe.


I can sum up all the questions about god that have been posed in this thread:

Why do you believe in god? - because ive seen his love.
If he loves you why did he allow sin? - Because he gave us free will.
Why is there suffering in the world? - because free will allows for sin, and sin breeds evil...evil creates suffering.
Why did god give us free will then? - because love without free will is pointless.
Then why did god create us in the first place - he created us in his image out of love.


lather, rinse, repeat!

The real question that should be posed here is not, does god exist?...the real question is why does man need to believe in god. The answer is really quite simple and its already been said by a number of the christians that have posted in this thread - Because its just TOO scary to think that life rests on the edge of a cosmic razor blade! Religion provides comfort from the fear.

Christians would rather believe in god than think that random chance has anything to do with their lives. If it gives them comfort...then just let them!

The thing is...life isnt really about random chance. Its about "nature" for lack of a better word. The laws of the universe govern existence. Without the laws of science...there wouldnt be anything holding this ball of dirt in space right at the optimum zone to promote life. Atoms wouldnt have fields holding the pieces together and matter wouldnt exist at all. I think christians will tell you..."THATS WHY I BELIEVE IN GOD...its too beautifull to not be by intelligent design!" I say, its too perfect and beautiful to have been created by anything intelligent...its perfect because the laws of nature have made it that way over the course of 15 billion years (that is a rough estimate at how old the universe actually is).

Its my opinion...let them have theirs

That's probably one of the best posts I've seen so far


Hehe, like I've said before. To each their own, I believe in science and I believe when we die that's it. The idea of nothing after life doesn't scare me. It's rather comforting actually, because life is stressful enough. I can't imagine having to deal with people for eternity, lol. With that said, I wouldn't just kill myself, I plan to live out my life and do what I want to do.

I just don't like it when someone talks down to me, tells me I'm gonna burn, or tells me I'm wrong about the way that I believe the world was created, when the foundation of their belief as stable enough as a jello floor (In my opinion, hehe just like the foundation of evolution to some is about as stable as a pudding floor) :naughty:

Haha, both sides remain "theories" and most times, once you reach a certain age you will probably not change your belief. I just wish that religous fellows would just leave me alone, haha. But there has been some GREAT discussion on here. I've gained some insight into Christian beliefs and I thank you guys once again for it . But it's still not for me

 

[SupraDerk]

I'm not sure how you see God going through the trouble as the Bible contredicting its self. God turning himself into a Human form does not make him human. Wax figures look like humans too, but they aren't. Do you see what I mean? Yes, God is spirit, that doesn't mean he can't look like a man. You might think of a spirit as some little whisp floating through the air. But we never would know because we can't see them. If we have seen them, they look human... like a ghost? The... Holy Ghost?

Haha I get what you mean, I thought of another scenario in my head where I proved myself wrong too, haha. It sounded better in my head, then I typed it out and read it and it sounded like crap, BUT I wanted to see how you'd respond.

+1 haha

 

[cadman]

I've had a lot of fun here! Really, what better way to go through work than pretend I'm working... er Uh, I mean...

Bay, it's Friday, some people walked off the job... not many people here. long weekend coming up.... *looks around* Hm, wonder if anyone would miss me? hehe

HAHA, I just noticed something. It looks like my posts have stayed at 69. ROFL hahaha, yeah, that's what I'm talkin about.

 

[figgie]

cadman

you too!!

lmao

it is deader than dead here... we have a state fai going on might head over to that and eat fried foods!!

btw

for all you science junkie

god might not be over our head but actually below it

The "god" particle (Higgs Boson) is what is theorized to bestow mass on all particles.