Got my built 7m running last night!! couple questions. Vid. on post 66

[Supra_Villan]

not sure if this would matter or not but....is the tps new? what color is the sticker on it? My car originally had a red sticker, but i replaced the tps during the rebuild and it faced a different way than the original did, but the new one had a blue sticker, i have yet to run it, but perhaps the blue one i have is for an n/a, but i am by no means trying to say this is the reason nor do i know, but i was just putting it out there so someone who would know could get something from it. But if it was an n/a one would it matter?

 

[Jaguar_5]

But if it was an n/a one would it matter?

Yes, the N/A and GTE tps are different, they look identical, from the front, but on the back, the tabs that are engaged by the butterfly valve in the TB, are 90* off from eachother

 

[Supra_Villan]

Yes, the N/A and GTE tps are different, they look identical, from the front, but on the back, the tabs that are engaged by the butterfly valve in the TB, are 90* off from eachother

damn it. i have an n/a one....it made me wonder because of that exact reason, but it fits just fine on my q45....will it mess up anything aside from fitment?

 

[92nsx]

Yes, the N/A and GTE tps are different,

Not true!!! 89+ turbo TPS are differn't then 86-88 turbo TPS, witch they are off by 90 degrees. The TPS I have to use for my manifold/TB is from a 86-88 turbo, also from Tubbie. He "forgot" to tell me that when I bought it from him so he suckered another $20 out of me for this TPS. (yes I told him it was going in my 89T) My 89T TPS was off 90 degrees. I can post a pic if some one would like to see them side by side.

Now if it is a N/A or turbo TPS I cant tell you the truth, Again it is from Tubbie and he said this is the sensor needed (witch is 86-88 turbo as he stated).

Side note: I have pluged in my OEM TPS that came with the car and still dose the same thing. The only thing that happens is the idle shoots up to 2600 RPM's and stays there when no TPS is pluged in.

Again when I block of the IAC (with throttle closed all the way) the car dose not die, or anything it just keep on the same old thing. Would this "custom" made TB be the problem, by it not closing all the way or not properly sealing the butterfly valve ?????????????????????

 

[Jaguar_5]

I have two '87's

One turbo one NA, the throttle position sensors are different

Here's what the EPC says:

Model Part Applications
Part Number Qty Years Model
89452-14050 1 11/1986 - 08/1988 MA70..TWC

(89452-20050) 1 01/1986 - 08/1986 MA70
1 08/1986 - 11/1986 MA70..TWC
1 08/1986 - 08/1988 MA70..TWT


Model Part Applications
Part Number Qty Years Model
89452-14050 1 08/1988 - 03/1989 MA70..TWC
1 03/1989 - 08/1989 MA70
1 08/1989 - 08/1990 MA70
1 08/1990 - 05/1993 MA70
89452-28030
(89452-20050) 1 08/1988 - 03/1989 MA70..TWT

It's rather confusing! TWC = N/A and TWT = Turbo

So it looks like It's best to check the orientation of the tabs on your TB before ordering a TPS!

 

[Supra_Villan]

as long as it reads open and closed, fits with the tb, and is fine as far as hooking up correctly(which is perfect since clips are identical), then will i be okay? sorry to jack your thread man, but i really need to know and i don't wanna start another thread, i'll give it back, promise:icon_bigg

btw any news as to which ones point which way along with what color the stickers are?

 

[92nsx]

Jaguar and Homer I will check the part #'s on both when I get home tonight and see what ones I have. Thank you for the part #'s Jaguar.
Homer, looking at the back of the TPS in orientation of the tabs to the screw holes on the TPS it goes like this for the 2 I have. 86-88 turbo the tabs are 90 degrees from the screw holes. On 89+ the tabs are prallel from the screw holes.
I believe

But again I do believe my TCCS is getting the signal, since when I do unplug the TPS my idle shoots up to 2600 rpm's and sits there. When I do pulg eather TPS in the idle goes back to the 1000-2000 thing I will do some testing and pic. posting tonight, I just might run home here quick to take some pics, this is also bugging me right now.


EDIT in red

 

[Jaguar_5]

But again I do believe my TCCS is getting the signal, since when I do unplug the TPS my idle shoots up to 2600 rpm's and sits there.

Have you actually adjust the TPS via the TSRM using a feeler gauge and ohmmeter?

If you can adjust the TPS according to the TSRM, then you have the correct one, if you had the wrong one the tabs wouldn't even engage and the resistance won't change

 

[92nsx]

Have you actually adjust the TPS via the TSRM using a feeler gauge and ohmmeter?

If you can adjust the TPS according to the TSRM, then you have the correct one, if you had the wrong one the tabs wouldn't even engage and the resistance won't change

Jaguar thank you for the help, read post 78 as for your answer.


Back on topic. Here are the results from reading ohms at the ECU.
My reading at ECU TRSM reading at TPS
VTA-E2---2.1K .2-1.2k
IDL-E2----2.49k (CLOSED) < 2.3k
IDL-E2----INIFINTY (OPEN) Inifinty
VTA-E2---7.49K (FULLY OPEN) 3.2k-10.3k
VC-E2----8.7K 4.25k-8.25k


Readings at TPS with sensor removed
VTA-E2---105
IDL-E2----51 (CLOSED)
IDL-E2----INIFINTY (OPEN)
VTA-E2--- 6.17K (FULLY OPEN)
VC-E2---- 6.87K

So here is what I see from these readings, no broken wires. As outlined in TSRM with sensor removed everything check outs OK
86-88 sensor I am using from tubbie I am has part #89452-14050 brown label

(this sensor dose not work with the TB) The 89+sensor I also have from this engine originally has close to the same readings. That TPS has part # 89452-20050 with a blue label

With both sensors I have code 41.

Pics. 89+ is on the LEFT (blue lable)

Here you can see the 90 degrees differance between the two. Again 89+ is on the left

Anyone on board with me thinking this "custom made" TB is no good. And I need to get a 90mm or 100mm TB that wasen't hand made? OR just need to find another TPS from a 86-88 turbo?

 

[Jaguar_5]

So here is what I see from these readings, no broken wires. As outlined in TSRM with sensor removed everything check outs OK

That only means the sensor is ok, not the wiring

If it checks out ok and you're still getting a code 41, I'd say somewhere between the TPS and ECU there's a problem with the wiring

Try to get rid of the code first, then worry about the TB

 

[Facime]

Testing the TPS is not rocket science. There are two things you want to douple check. Are you throwing a TPS code? If so then either the TPS itself is bad, improperly adjusted, or the signals are not making it back to the ECU. Secondly, if you can actually adjust the TPS by using the proceedure in the TSRM then you have the right TPS and getting another one isnt going to fix the problem.

I sense your frustration but throwing parts at the problem isnt the right way to go about it. Your high and/or bouncing idle is either being caused by an electronic control out of spec (i.e. TPS, ISC etc), or a mechanical problem (air leak, pirate air, poor throttle body design etc.).

check for air leaks with a can of carb cleaner, check for codes, visually inspect the TB to see if it gets good closure, etc. Im betting you have a warped intake flange and have a massive vac leak.

 

[92nsx]

I ask about the TB because the engine dose not "choke out" or die when I block the ISC. It just keeps on keeping on.

 

[92nsx]

......I sense your frustration but throwing parts at the problem isnt the right way to go about it. Your high and/or bouncing idle is either being caused by an electronic control out of spec (i.e. TPS, ISC etc), or a mechanical problem (air leak, pirate air, poor throttle body design etc.).

check for air leaks with a can of carb cleaner, check for codes, visually inspect the TB to see if it gets good closure, etc. Im betting you have a warped intake flange and have a massive vac leak.

Thank you for feeling my fustration. Warped flange has been fixed. (it was in one of the posts, Thank you IJ). I am not throwing parts at it. Rather just double checking with parts/sensors I alrady have to double check everything/readings.
TPS code I believe so, I have code 41 with this idle jumping thing. JJ stated it was the TPS.

With a can (ok I am on can 2 now lol) of starting fluid there are no leaks. but it made a good engine degreaser/cleaner. Check every vac line, intercooler piping, and FFIM top and bottom.

Let me get a pic. of the poor throttle body design. Or what I think is poor.

EDIT: here is a pic of TB with flash light inside of FFIM with TB closed as far as it can. Lots of light coming through on right sided and spots on of light on left side.

 

[Facime]

well that doesnt rule out the possibility your air is coming from a warped manifold or post TB leak of some description. Take the TB off and hold it up to the light. There should be very little light if any cmoing from around the butterfly.




EDIT: oic about the flange. I forgot this thread is the one that IJ pointed that out. I was too lazy to go back and check. Well, disregrad that then, sounds like you have that part covered.

TB issue is certainly a possibilty. I would be consentrating on the elctrical issues first though.

 

[jdub]

That TB is not going to work

 

[92nsx]

That TB is not going to work

Is this at least adding or the cause of the problem? Thank you jdub.

Should I source a q45, or one of those blue 100mm TB I see from Bangkok that use a stock TPS?

Here is the Bangkok TB

Facime-- did you see the pic after I added it?

 

[jdub]

A TB needs to seal...it's definitely a contributor.

I've got that TB in the 80mm ID version (Ku-Engineering)...100mm is a bit big
It's a nice TB, kinda pricey though...mine is made to use the '89+ TPS (#20050).

 

[Facime]

Facime-- did you see the pic after I added it?

Yeah I see it now. That doesnt look good.


Logic tells me whats happening is with the TPS unplugged the ECU is simply metering fuel based on the amount of air being drawn through the slightly cracked open TB. Then when you plug the TPS in the ECU is trying to set idle based on the information that the throttle is supposed to be closed, but cant, so thats where the cycling is taking place.

Having said that though did I read that right that you still have a code 41?

 

[92nsx]

A TB needs to seal...it's definitely a contributor.

I've got that TB in the 80mm ID version (Ku-Engineering)...100mm is a bit big
It's a nice TB, kinda pricey though...mine is made to use the '89+ TPS (#20050).

$$$ no object at this point of the build, if you get my point. At least not $250. But if a cheaper one will work I will go with that.

I say 100mm because the TB I have mesures in at 4". But as we see it is no good. I am open to options, I just dont want to replace it later because my TB isn't flowing enough air.

Should I use a smaller one? Sorry I am the type of guy where "bigger is better". But I know there are limits. Yet I have no idea where that is on a TB.

Yeah I see it now. That doesnt look good............
Having said that though did I read that right that you still have a code 41?

Yep code 41 according to my fluke. I posted a vid. of it. My cluster is not working so I can not see the light, lol

 

[jdub]

Are you using 4" IC piping with an IC that has a 4" intlet/outlet?

You might want to think about how the turbo's ability to flow through the IC piping is going to affect critical mach as part of the total system....the TB is the last part of that piping. I'll give you a hint...bigger is not necessarily better.