since the valve covers are off it should be really easy to spec out the shims per TSRM with a feeler gauge
Got my built 7m running last night!! couple questions. Vid. on post 66
- Thread starter 92nsx
- Start date
They are easley removable at least now with ffim. I will search TRSM for specs. But never the less I want to wate for Jim to ok everything/ look it over before I start doing things my self.
Jim just got back to me and said he will call me this afternoon, about the oil leak and vacuum or lack of it.
here is a video of the oil leak
Any ideas on why all the gauges are dead, what sucks because it also controlls the check engine light so I can not check any codes. The fuse was good, but still installed a new one. There is 12.4 volts on the one side of the fuse holder, and the m1 plug is together with good concetion (behind ECU). What wire is power for the cluster, Yellow wire on blue plug on the back of the cluster? I did a continuity test from fuse to cluster and found that yellow wire listed above. is that correct? Did not check voltage because battery was disconnected for trouble shooting.
Jim just got back to me and said he will call me this afternoon, about the oil leak and vacuum or lack of it.
here is a video of the oil leak
Any ideas on why all the gauges are dead, what sucks because it also controlls the check engine light so I can not check any codes. The fuse was good, but still installed a new one. There is 12.4 volts on the one side of the fuse holder, and the m1 plug is together with good concetion (behind ECU). What wire is power for the cluster, Yellow wire on blue plug on the back of the cluster? I did a continuity test from fuse to cluster and found that yellow wire listed above. is that correct? Did not check voltage because battery was disconnected for trouble shooting.
92nsx;1083438 said:
Specing it out will only help to answer your question of why you're pulling little to no vac. It will not change anything (I wish it were that simple).
All you need is a feeler gauge and to follow the steps in the TSRM (starts on this page)
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EM&P=8
CyFi6;1083462 said:
First I had it on #6 first with Sean over, then went to #1, It is kind of hard to time engine when I only allow it to run for super short times. Plus dosen't #1 and 6 fire at the same time? Any way it was giving me the same indications using #1 and or #6. But Keep going 1 to many teeth on the cps.:3d_frown: 20° BTDC then remove & adjust CPS and then 5° BTDC. Back and forth, back and forth. One of these time I will get it in the sweet spot
hottscennessey;1083512 said:
Yep, found that page, I will give it the feeler gauge test. Plus this way I can check and see how good Jim's work is I guess. Thank you
I also found the TPS checking and setting in TRSM, so I will also check that out. Any one know about the gauges. Kind of curious about oil pressure, and seeing rpms.
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Well I dont know I if it is a update but here we go.
I talked with Jim last night and he is also puzzled and kind of mad that it is leaking oil. So now he wants me to remove the lower timing cover, rip off the A/C (pain in the ASS) and everything else on the front of the engine, this way I can get a better look at it. Then I have to call him back with what I see and we will go from there.
Jim also said with my intake manifold and cams I might have to set my idel at 1000 - 1100 rps to have get a nice vac. pull. But never the less something is still not right. But he said lets work on the oil thing first, its the most important.
EDIT: Also after several hrs. of searching and asking Q's I think the flange on the FFIM was not machined after the welding and is a source of my super low Vac. Tubbie could not confirm if it was or not machined.
I guess rip everything back apart and start all over. Man the wire harness is a pain in the ass to install with a one piece FFIM. The sensors on the bottom side of it suck ass to get to
I talked with Jim last night and he is also puzzled and kind of mad that it is leaking oil. So now he wants me to remove the lower timing cover, rip off the A/C (pain in the ASS) and everything else on the front of the engine, this way I can get a better look at it. Then I have to call him back with what I see and we will go from there.
Jim also said with my intake manifold and cams I might have to set my idel at 1000 - 1100 rps to have get a nice vac. pull. But never the less something is still not right. But he said lets work on the oil thing first, its the most important.
EDIT: Also after several hrs. of searching and asking Q's I think the flange on the FFIM was not machined after the welding and is a source of my super low Vac. Tubbie could not confirm if it was or not machined.
I guess rip everything back apart
and start all over. Man the wire harness is a pain in the ass to install with a one piece FFIM. The sensors on the bottom side of it suck ass to get to
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Well talking with Jim I looked into the leak a little more found it is coming from the seal on the intake cam.
Still have no vac.
Still have no vac.
Spray the aerostart or whatever you're using up under the intake and see if it picks up.
Only other thing I can think of that would cause low vacc is Cam timing but you said you degreed them?
Mine idles at 850.
Only other thing I can think of that would cause low vacc is Cam timing but you said you degreed them?
Mine idles at 850.
I will re-spray ether (starting fluid) on the intake and see what happens. I think the flang on the FFIM is still bad I have been trying to pin point the oil leak (witch I found, intake cam seal) and getting the gauge cluster to work, or some what work the last couple days so i have a idea what the rpms are. Today after work it is all for trying to pin point this problem.
Yes the cams WERE degreed in according to the cam card that came with the 272. 5 degrees ATDC on exhaust and 3 degrees BTDC on intake (I think, I dont remember) but since I had such shitty vacuum I put them back to 0, for trouble shooting reasions :cry: Now I will have to re-do it again.:3d_frown:
I have been trying to pin point the oil leak (witch I found, intake cam seal) and getting the gauge cluster to work, or some what work the last couple days so i have a idea what the rpms are. Today after work it is all for trying to pin point this problem. Yes the cams WERE degreed in according to the cam card that came with the 272. 5 degrees ATDC on exhaust and 3 degrees BTDC on intake (I think, I dont remember) but since I had such shitty vacuum I put them back to 0, for trouble shooting reasions :cry: Now I will have to re-do it again.:3d_frown:
Suggestion:
1) Take off the intake, and verify ALL surface flatness with a machinist's straight edge. You don't want to fight a leaking intake.
2) Do you have adjustable cam gears? Open up the LSA a bit - that'll smooth your idle. Ian, what is your current LSA with the 19" of vacuum?
1) Take off the intake, and verify ALL surface flatness with a machinist's straight edge. You don't want to fight a leaking intake.
2) Do you have adjustable cam gears? Open up the LSA a bit - that'll smooth your idle. Ian, what is your current LSA with the 19" of vacuum?
Doward;1086637 said:
1) I know the the head is straight, I ask my engine builder about that he machined it flat after the port and polish.
As for the intake manifold I don't not believe so. I spray starter fluid around where it meets the head and the engine revs up ever so little. So next I have to remove it and bring it in
I am thinking a source of a major leak!!! GOD DAM IT... It is a pain in the ass since it is a one piece FFIM. For those who have one know what I am taliking about2) yes, AEM gears. The cams WERE degreed in also for the first start up. Then I had no vac. (less then 4 inHg. ) so I returned them to 0 for trouble shooting.
What is LSA? I am guessing IJ already knows 109 degrees? I have yet to see 19 inHg. Now with cams at 0 I have around 6-8 inHg. What you see is the pro sport gauge perform a dramatic opening ceremony with a full pointer sweep and self check each time the vehicle is started. First 30 sec. of vid is usless but I cant edit the movie
Here is the cam card for my 272's
hottscennessey;1086639 said:spec those shims yet?
No, not yet. I asked Jim about that also and he said that he did, and they should be ready to go. But I still plan on checking for my self.
EDIT: I just checked the clearance on the cams to the shim. The intake side cams are at .008" across the board. .008" fits nice, and .008 +.001 dose not fit at all. TSRM calls out between .006" and .010" So I think the intake is good right.
The exhaust is .013" on all except #5. 5 is at .014" TRSM calls out .008" - .012" Maybe could use another thou or two accross the board, but never the less I think they should be just fine right? They are all closing.
Jim also recommended that I not run the engine tell the oil leak is fixed. If it is leaking from the intake cam seal that means there is some oil going to them but not ALL of it. The leak is pretty bad. Better to be safe then sorry.
Should I wate for Jim to replace the intake cam seal that is leaking, or should I do it my self? I just think he is going to take for ever to do it. It took 9 months to rebuild my engine and head!!!!!! But at the same time I don't want to fubar it up if you know what I mean.
Thank you all again for the on going support and help.
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I have a feeling the engine was degreed wrong, for you to get no vac like that you must have massive overlap...
Well I just found out why there was oil leaking/spraying out behind the cam gear. MY ENGINE BUILDER, JIM HALL FORGOT TO INSTALL THE CAM SEALS ON THE HEAD!!!!!!!!!:3d_frown::3d_frown: WTF, WAS HE SMOKING :nono::nono: I know every one
Well I picked up 2 here quick and I will install them and see if it goes away
Here are the pics. (you all know I love pics. and sharing them
Ok, Im going back into the garage to finish up what Jim forgot.
Well I picked up 2 here quick and I will install them and see if it goes away
Here are the pics. (you all know I love pics. and sharing them
Ok, Im going back into the garage to finish up what Jim forgot.
Wow that is not good! If he forgot that I would be checking everything else as well, that is just simple stuff.
Well, I got them installed(cam seals), and what would you know, no more oil leak yippie skippy. I still have no idle, no vac. and some times when idleing (or should I call it "surging" between 600-1500 rpms) it revs up to 4k and sits there!!! I am about to give up on this car. I am going to check for leaks again around the intake manifold, try my other tps, and block off my IAC tomarrow. It's getting late tonight, and I dont want to wake up the neighbors. I don't know if it is the cams and stock ecu, old gas, FFIM just sucks, TB is no good, or what.
To remove some valve overlap(to see if it helps out my idle), should I retard the intake cam gear and advance the exhaust gear? Or do I have that backwards?
Also I still don't have a "working" gauge cluster(wrong year cluster) so there is not way for me to check for codes
yippie skippy. I still have no idle, no vac. and some times when idleing (or should I call it "surging" between 600-1500 rpms) it revs up to 4k and sits there!!! I am about to give up on this car. I am going to check for leaks again around the intake manifold, try my other tps, and block off my IAC tomarrow. It's getting late tonight, and I dont want to wake up the neighbors. I don't know if it is the cams and stock ecu, old gas, FFIM just sucks, TB is no good, or what. To remove some valve overlap(to see if it helps out my idle), should I retard the intake cam gear and advance the exhaust gear? Or do I have that backwards?
Also I still don't have a "working" gauge cluster(wrong year cluster) so there is not way for me to check for codes
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92nsx
that turbo spooling like without load is indicative of super retarded timing. The 7m never had flowing heads that would spin a turbo as is indicative of post #4.
That leaves,
When you remeoved the cam gears to install the oil seals, where the cam pins in the MIDDLE hole?
Cam gears set to zero?
Quadruple check the ignition wiring (1&6, 2&5, 3&4).
And here is one more... The CPS. Check the wiring harness to the cps CAREFULLY. I am seeing alot more wires that are bare and causing shorting to ground issues. Usually takes a pair of the cylinders out depending on which (Ne1 or Ne2) side is shorting to ground and this will cause the cylinder to still inject but no ignition, makes it into an Anti-lag setup.
oil leak
the oil seal is one. Keep a close eye on where toyota asks for FIPG on the valve covers.
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EM&P=56
step b.
otherwise it will leak there (no where near as much as the oil seal being GONE though!).
that turbo spooling like without load is indicative of super retarded timing. The 7m never had flowing heads that would spin a turbo as is indicative of post #4.
That leaves,
When you remeoved the cam gears to install the oil seals, where the cam pins in the MIDDLE hole?
Cam gears set to zero?
Quadruple check the ignition wiring (1&6, 2&5, 3&4).
And here is one more... The CPS. Check the wiring harness to the cps CAREFULLY. I am seeing alot more wires that are bare and causing shorting to ground issues. Usually takes a pair of the cylinders out depending on which (Ne1 or Ne2) side is shorting to ground and this will cause the cylinder to still inject but no ignition, makes it into an Anti-lag setup.
oil leak
the oil seal is one. Keep a close eye on where toyota asks for FIPG on the valve covers.
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EM&P=56
step b.
otherwise it will leak there (no where near as much as the oil seal being GONE though!).
figgie - since I put the cam gears back to "0" and adjusted the timing (still around 17-19) I stoped building boost.
Cam pins were/are in the middle hole of the cams (see pic. above).
After installing the seals I doubled checked that all 3 timing marks line up and they were still good.
CPS wiring, I will check again. When I bought the car it (CPS wiring) was "hacked together". So I spliced in a factory harness( soldered wires, heat shrink each wire, then wraped them in electrical tape) and bought a new CPS.
As for where the FIPG is applied on the cam covers, I have not put any there yet, because after a few heat cycles, I am going to check the torque on the head studs. Then will put some FIPG in the corners. But never the less the oil stoped leaking now.
Will check spark plug wires again, but with the short wires on 1,2,3 i know it is hard to mix them up.
I will do some more trouble shooting today and update this thread.
I stoped building boost.Cam pins were/are in the middle hole of the cams (see pic. above).
After installing the seals I doubled checked that all 3 timing marks line up and they were still good.
CPS wiring, I will check again. When I bought the car it (CPS wiring) was "hacked together". So I spliced in a factory harness( soldered wires, heat shrink each wire, then wraped them in electrical tape) and bought a new CPS.
As for where the FIPG is applied on the cam covers, I have not put any there yet, because after a few heat cycles, I am going to check the torque on the head studs. Then will put some FIPG in the corners. But never the less the oil stoped leaking now.
Will check spark plug wires again, but with the short wires on 1,2,3 i know it is hard to mix them up.
I will do some more trouble shooting today and update this thread.