92nsx;1108291 said:
right there is your problem. i know you had mentioned it but make an adapter plate for another stock TB (stocker, q45, mustang whatever) and i would bet that this issue is resolved.
Got my built 7m running last night!! couple questions. Vid. on post 66
- Thread starter 92nsx
- Start date
right there is your problem. i know you had mentioned it but make an adapter plate for another stock TB (stocker, q45, mustang whatever) and i would bet that this issue is resolved.
jetjock;1095356 said:
jdub;1104013 said:That TB is not going to work
Several pages back...you're a bit late to the party NNT.
jetjock;1108314 said:
need new tires;1108315 said:
I have a stocker laying in the garage. I will fab up a adapter plate this week and see if it helps out. I just will have no throttle cable, witch is fine for start up/idle test. If anything I can tie a string to the TB and reach out the window and use my hand as a gas pedel. LOL JK
I will just need to order a new silicone eblow to adapet to my 3" piping. I am hoping the 3" will work for this test.
I also hope this keeps Facime happy and he dosen't think I am throwing parts at it.
Like JJ told you a while back, it's the TPS (or wiring)...the TB you have on it is making it worse due to the seal issue.
Clear your codes, plug the TPS in (off the TB), and see if you get a code 41.
The discussion on IC piping size was to get you thinking about what your doing and how to attain the goal. 2 1/2"" piping is the largest you want to go on a CT26 turbo....if you move to the GT35, GT40 or T04 size turbos (or larger), 3" would be max. A Q45 will work (like I said) and you don't need a TB larger than 80mm for the above turbos.
If it were me, I'd sort the issue with the TPS and get a new TB. Something in the 80mm range...there's not point in putting the work into making the stock TB fit and there should not be a huge cost involved. You're still going to have idle problems due to the cams...you'll need to work with the overlap (adj cam gears). Take a look at the cam thread I posted a while back.
Clear your codes, plug the TPS in (off the TB), and see if you get a code 41.
The discussion on IC piping size was to get you thinking about what your doing and how to attain the goal. 2 1/2"" piping is the largest you want to go on a CT26 turbo....if you move to the GT35, GT40 or T04 size turbos (or larger), 3" would be max. A Q45 will work (like I said) and you don't need a TB larger than 80mm for the above turbos.
If it were me, I'd sort the issue with the TPS and get a new TB. Something in the 80mm range...there's not point in putting the work into making the stock TB fit and there should not be a huge cost involved. You're still going to have idle problems due to the cams...you'll need to work with the overlap (adj cam gears). Take a look at the cam thread I posted a while back.
I have swapped in the TPS (off the TB) before with no improvement. I have 3 different TPS's. The only thing I did not do was re-set the computer. I will do it again this time re-setting the computer before/after each time. TY If code is still there I will run 10' jumper wires from TPS to TCCS and see if that works.
The Throttle body adaptor I have already made. It cost me 20 minutes of my time. Not a big deal, it's just a piece of 5"X5" 1/4 thick steel with 9 holes in it.(1 of them being around 65mm in diameter. Again this is for testing purposes ONLY, using a manufactured TB trying anything for a improvement over what I have. When things improve I will start sourcing a 80mm TB first, along with the either GT35R, GT37R, GT40R turbo and EMS at later time..
As for the cam idle problem (s)(if there are any) I need the car idling/and somewhat drivable. The cams are degreed in according to the cam card that came with the them, unlesscam card is wrong, and the timing is right on at 10 degrees or (9.75 degrees). I cannot make anymore adjust to the cams with the idle jumping all over the place (between 1000 & 2000 RPM’s) as I would not be able to see it helped anything.
Furthermore I do not own a truck or a trailer to tow the a car to a dyno for cam adjustments with idle this way. I would need to drive the Supra to it, since the Caddy should not be used for any type of hauling, beside hauling ass, LOL. I will wait for fine tuning the cams once the car is drivable.
I believe I have read you write up on cams and over lap and why you don’t want any overlap on a turbo engine, but I will search it again an d double check to make sure it was the thread you wrote. Right now I do not believe the cams will make the engine’s idle jump 1000 RPM’s (but I have been wrong before) I also feel it is something along the lines of the in order,
1: TB
2: TPS
3: IC piping size
4: ISC
5: Cams
THANK YOU again for all the help I would not be able to do this with your support and expertise!! I owe you guys some beers or whisky if you would like.
The Throttle body adaptor I have already made. It cost me 20 minutes of my time. Not a big deal, it's just a piece of 5"X5" 1/4 thick steel with 9 holes in it.(1 of them being around 65mm in diameter
. Again this is for testing purposes ONLY, using a manufactured TB trying anything for a improvement over what I have. When things improve I will start sourcing a 80mm TB first, along with the either GT35R, GT37R, GT40R turbo and EMS at later time.. As for the cam idle problem (s)(if there are any) I need the car idling/and somewhat drivable. The cams are degreed in according to the cam card that came with the them, unlesscam card is wrong, and the timing is right on at 10 degrees or (9.75 degrees). I cannot make anymore adjust to the cams with the idle jumping all over the place (between 1000 & 2000 RPM’s) as I would not be able to see it helped anything.
Furthermore I do not own a truck or a trailer to tow the a car to a dyno for cam adjustments with idle this way. I would need to drive the Supra to it, since the Caddy should not be used for any type of hauling, beside hauling ass, LOL. I will wait for fine tuning the cams once the car is drivable.
I believe I have read you write up on cams and over lap and why you don’t want any overlap on a turbo engine, but I will search it again an d double check to make sure it was the thread you wrote. Right now I do not believe the cams will make the engine’s idle jump 1000 RPM’s (but I have been wrong before) I also feel it is something along the lines of the in order,
1: TB
2: TPS
3: IC piping size
4: ISC
5: Cams
THANK YOU again for all the help I would not be able to do this with your support and expertise!! I owe you guys some beers or whisky if you would like.
Concerning the cams, it was this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56763
More of a timing issue due to the helical gear being out of phase on the BC cams. There are workarounds though...read the thread. You are correct, the cams should not cause a 1000 RPM jump at idle, but you will get some lope with the 272 cams.
Degreeing sets the cams at a known "zero"...i.e a starting point. If you look at the BC cam card, it has quite a bit of overlap...about twice what the stock cams do iirc. Be very careful boosting with those cams till you get the overlap correct, you don't want to detonate due to high compression.
Make sure your adapter plate seals on both sides
You've had enough trouble with pirate air.
Order wise for right now:
1: TPS
2: TB
3: ISC
4: Cams
5: IC piping size
You're welcome!
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56763
More of a timing issue due to the helical gear being out of phase on the BC cams. There are workarounds though...read the thread. You are correct, the cams should not cause a 1000 RPM jump at idle, but you will get some lope with the 272 cams.
Degreeing sets the cams at a known "zero"...i.e a starting point. If you look at the BC cam card, it has quite a bit of overlap...about twice what the stock cams do iirc. Be very careful boosting with those cams till you get the overlap correct, you don't want to detonate due to high compression.
Make sure your adapter plate seals on both sides
You've had enough trouble with pirate air.
Order wise for right now:
1: TPS
2: TB
3: ISC
4: Cams
5: IC piping size
You're welcome!
lope I like
Yep I read that thread, you or another member showed it to me when I asked a question about my timing being off with these cams a wile back.
I believe there is around 8 degrees of overlap right now with these BC 272's. I do not know what the factory overlap is on a 7mgte.
My photobucket isn't working (I think my work's firewall is stopping it) to post any pics at the moment
I will make sure the adaptor is sealing correctly. I have a ton of gasking making material (it is kind of like rubber) witch I used for my current TB.
Yep I read that thread, you or another member showed it to me when I asked a question about my timing being off with these cams a wile back.
I believe there is around 8 degrees of overlap right now with these BC 272's. I do not know what the factory overlap is on a 7mgte.
My photobucket isn't working (I think my work's firewall is stopping it) to post any pics at the moment
I will make sure the adaptor is sealing correctly. I have a ton of gasking making material (it is kind of like rubber) witch I used for my current TB.
92nsx;1108337 said:
I dont see what difference it makes if Im happy, its your car and your time. I simply felt I was banging my head against the wall and I only enjoy that for so long.
92nsx;1108406 said:
No need to go through that trouble right off the bat. What I was trying to get you to do earlier was to test continuity between the TPS plug end of the wires and the ECU plug end making sure you use the ECU pinout diagram for reference as to which wires to test. This will rule out (or in) wiring problems causing the code41. As I said, its what finally solved my TPS code on my mk2.
Facime;1108459 said:
I will also check for continuity tonight. All I was saying, when I tested the TPS single at the TCCS all 4 wires were getting the single to/from the TPS, that is why I posted my results. But never the less I can check continuity as this only takes 2 minutes. Thank you for coming back to this thread to lend me a helping hand
Also I will not ever just throw(buy) parts at something if i dont think it is causing the/a problem or at least contributing to it. How ever, if I have/own 1 or 3 of them already, sitting on a shelf and I can "check" it, I will make a quick swap of the part to double check the results. Sorry for the run on sentence ,and sentence structure.
Well I did test the wires from the TPS and the TCCS and the reading are as is
THW----1170 ohms, I think it is fine since it goes to the water temp sensor befor the TCCS.
IDL------.5 ohms
VTA-----.2 ohms
VC------.3 ohms
There are not any broken wires. I also doubled check the TPS (both of them) and they both still check out with in limits as out lined in TSRM and ohming them out.
Then the neighbor stoped by so we had a few beers so that is as far as i got tonight. I was not able to try this adaptor plate yet.
What else will cause this 41 when the wires and the TPS is fine?
THW----1170 ohms, I think it is fine since it goes to the water temp sensor befor the TCCS.
IDL------.5 ohms
VTA-----.2 ohms
VC------.3 ohms
There are not any broken wires. I also doubled check the TPS (both of them) and they both still check out with in limits as out lined in TSRM and ohming them out.
Then the neighbor stoped by so we had a few beers so that is as far as i got tonight. I was not able to try this adaptor plate yet.
What else will cause this 41 when the wires and the TPS is fine?
You sure seem to like doing things the hard way. The ECU does not deal in resistance. Measure VTA with the key on at the ECU connector and post it up. Not that I don't already know what it'll be but humor me.
Then there's this:
You don't see a problem with that?
Then there's this:
92nsx;1108773 said:
You don't see a problem with that?
jetjock;1108786 said:
We were just checking for broken wires, this is why we did a continuity test on the wires. I will also take a voltage reading tonight, and post it.
As for THW, TCCS to the TPS, the TEWD shows that it dose not go directly back to the TCCS. It gose from the the TPS then through the EFI water temp sensor then TCCS. It is outlined on this TEWD page.jetjock;1108786 said:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TEWD/MK3/manual.aspx?S=Main&P=48
This is what I see/read and please correct me if I am worng.
Since the water temp sensor acts like a potentiometer (rheostat) the ohms should vary according to the engine temp. ( all tests are done with a cold engine) The warmer the engine temp the lower the ohms through the sensor, thus a lower ohm reading. Correct???
Here are a few checks I did at the ecu, with the tps off, switch to on, and engine not running.
TPS Closed
THW-GROUND --1.343 Vdc
VC-E2 ----.3 Vdc
TPS clamped open
IDL-E2---3.4 Vdc
VTA-E2----4.3 Vdc
Futhermore I can hear the TESM modules clicking (going to firm) when I open/move the TPS sensor. This is telling me that the TCCS is getting some sort of reading(I hope the correct readings)
Any other voltage checks you want me to do please post it. Example: check voltage from E2-IDL at TCCS, +B1-Ground at TCCS, VC-E2 at TCCS
TPS Closed
THW-GROUND --1.343 Vdc
VC-E2 ----.3 Vdc
TPS clamped open
IDL-E2---3.4 Vdc
VTA-E2----4.3 Vdc
Futhermore I can hear the TESM modules clicking (going to firm) when I open/move the TPS sensor. This is telling me that the TCCS is getting some sort of reading(I hope the correct readings)
Any other voltage checks you want me to do please post it. Example: check voltage from E2-IDL at TCCS, +B1-Ground at TCCS, VC-E2 at TCCS
I wanted VTA. That means with the throttle both open and closed. That said:
1) VC-E2 is wrong. In fact based on the other measurements it's very unlikely it's .3 volts. If it is there's your problem right there. Check it again, this time with the AFM both plugged in and unplugged.
2) IDL-E2 is wrong. Not that it matters because it can't be involved in code 41. It's still wrong though.
3) WOT VTA-E2 is wrong.
4) THW is irrelevant. I have no idea why you're even messing with it.
I'm beginning understand why you think the TPS and wiring is good but you still have the code...
1) VC-E2 is wrong. In fact based on the other measurements it's very unlikely it's .3 volts. If it is there's your problem right there. Check it again, this time with the AFM both plugged in and unplugged.
2) IDL-E2 is wrong. Not that it matters because it can't be involved in code 41. It's still wrong though.
3) WOT VTA-E2 is wrong.
4) THW is irrelevant. I have no idea why you're even messing with it.
I'm beginning understand why you think the TPS and wiring is good but you still have the code...
I can do that, I will check VTA to ground (I am guessing ground) tonight with throttle open and closed.
I will also check VC-E2 with and without AFM pluged in.
Since the TESM modules are clicking (going to firm) when I open/move the TPS sensor what dose this tell us???????????????
As for THW I am just going by what TEWD shows me on where the 4 TPS wires go into the TCCS.
I will also check VC-E2 with and without AFM pluged in.
Since the TESM modules are clicking (going to firm) when I open/move the TPS sensor what dose this tell us???????????????
As for THW I am just going by what TEWD shows me on where the 4 TPS wires go into the TCCS.
Sensors should be referenced to E2 when measuring them. E1 (the chassis) can be used but the readings will be slightly different.
It tells us there's no way Vcc can be the 300 mv you claim it is
This actually has to do with your entire problem: you don't understand how things work. What Pete found frustrating is how you refused to accept that as a possibility. Appears you still don't. It's not easy helping someone who doesn't know what he doesn't know...
92nsx;1109994 said:
It tells us there's no way Vcc can be the 300 mv you claim it is
92nsx;1109994 said:
This actually has to do with your entire problem: you don't understand how things work. What Pete found frustrating is how you refused to accept that as a possibility. Appears you still don't. It's not easy helping someone who doesn't know what he doesn't know...
Education in progress!
Rob may not know now and soon as he accepts this he'll learn and will know and hopefully pass that information along to the next guy that has an issue like this
Rob may not know now and soon as he accepts this he'll learn and will know and hopefully pass that information along to the next guy that has an issue like this
jetjock;1110419 said:
JJ thank you for the education on 41. I now have more knowledge on this, TPS, and code 41!!!
Now to make this more confusing here are the VTA and VC reading from both of my TPS's.
Both TPS's VTA readings had a smooth increase as it was opened!!!! Also Battery volts were at 12.4 Vdc during all tests.
Here is VTA readings at TCCS with TPS removed
88 TPS closed
88 TPS open
88 TPS adjusted correctly using the shims
89 TPS closed with TPS removed
89 TPS open
VCC reading with88 TPS adjusted without AFM connected
VCC reading with 88 TPS adjusted with AFM connected
Now if I under stood JJ correctly in my PM about code 41 shows when VTA is less then 100 mv, and should be around 300 mv when adjusted, and about 3.6 volts with it wide open. From the pics. I just took the "open readings" look to be high, what causes this???
Also VCC should be around 5 v and 4.97 is close enough right?
Comments? Thank you in advance for the advice!
JJ: thanks heaps for helping out!
(If I knew I'd help but I have NFI so will sit here and learn)
(If I knew I'd help but I have NFI so will sit here and learn)