Got my built 7m running last night!! couple questions. Vid. on post 66

[92nsx]

Here is a quick pic. of the engine bay. This is the first pic. I posted of this engine .
Maybe some one will see something in it and have a light bulb turn on for me to check

 

[jdub]

You really do need a fan shroud you know

 

[92nsx]

You really do need a fan shroud you know

I have one...sort of, it is all crack up. But a fan shroud wasent needed for start up But yes before I start driving around there will be one on there. Hell my battery isn't even bolted down :aigo:. It is just sitting loose in the spair tire area.

Also since I have the EGR temp sensor "tricked" (10k ohm resistor) will this affect anything on the idle?

 

[jdub]

The EGR is inop at idle on a stock set-up anyway...it should not have an effect. However, the EGR suppresses detonation above idle to ~4000 RPM...the USDM ECU fuel/timing maps are "tuned" with the EGR in place. Be aware that high engine load (with the EGR removed) in the above RPM range can cause detonation as a result. A good solution is to source a JDM ECU...it does not have the EGR provision and you will no longer need to "trick" the sensor.

 

[92nsx]

^^^^ thank you. At this time I am just trying to get the engine running/idleing right. This fall or after the engine in borken' in this car will be large turbo (hint the engine and head build) and AEM EMS. I have not installed eather or yet because I want to make sure when I do it is not the turbo or the AEM causing idle problems. Good thing now because if I would have installed both already I would pount my finger and one of those for the problem i am having. If that makes since to you.

To here are a couple more test I have done.

Swaped TPS, there was no differance in the idle

I blocked of the mini air filter I have on the IAC (so no air can come in through the IAC) with saran wrap and the engine idle was fine!!!!!!! SO I feel the IAC must be fubared up in some sort of way. When I unplug the TPS I can hear the motor turning on the IAC. Now that is weard, dosent that mean it is working? Should I souce a new IAC? But the throttle responce was super slow and kind of "hung" around 2k rpms for a sec.

After re-tightening the intake manifold bolts I sprayed starting fluid where the flange meets the head and the idle speeds up. So I guess it is time to remove the FFIM and get the flange checked out.

 

[jdub]

Blocking off the ISC confirms a leak somewhere on the FFIM (assuming the TB plate is fully closed)...I'm thinking your ISCV is fine. Based on what you did with the starter fluid, it looks like your FFIM flange is not straight/flat and is the source of the pirate air. BTW - using a mini filter on the ISCV is not a good idea...you are allowing unmetered air into the system. It needs to be hooked up to the accordion hose like stock if you are using the stock ECU.

Other things to check:
- Brake booster line...the check valve above the booster may be bad
- Other vac lines attached to the FFIM

What is the plan for the PCV?

 

[figgie]

also

17-19 degree timing?

Is that with E1 and Te1 shorted out? If so that is super super advanced! Remember the timing check is done with the Diagnostic pins shorting out.

Also jdub stated.

The IAC is routed using the post accordian hose air, as jdub stated, what you have is a unmetered air leak which will cause you being lean and probably not hold an idle worth a damn.

What other non-stock bits do you have (any other mini airfilters anywhere?). And I mean ANYTHING that is non-stock.

 

[92nsx]

That is the only mini filter on the engine. I thought it would be like using a lexus afm with the mini but I guessed wrong. I will some how route it into the intake hose. I will re plan that for this brake in peiod, but once AEM EMS can I use it since there is no AFM?

Brake booster and all other vac. lines passed the starting fluid test. Just not the intake flange

Timing is with and with out the paper clip installed on TE1 and E1. It made no differance. I have no idea why, maybe because it is that much out of wack, no gauge cluster, to much oxide inhibitor greese, I don't know. As for the timing when I place the CPS back one tooth the best I can get is 6 degrees!! I move it one tooth forward, the best is around 17 (scale on lower timing cover dosent go that far) and the engine sounds like SHIT when at 6 degrees so I left it at the 17 or so range, for now.

Plan for the PCV is to use a catch can, I just haven't installed it yet because of the idle problems.

I just got done removing the the FFIM to check the flange and holy mother of god!, I am able to place a .025" shim under the straight edge in 3 differnt places!!!!!!!! Time to make a trip to a machine, shop. My mill can not hold a intake manifold

This is what I am thinking
Idle problem>>> IAC using unmetered air,
Low Vac.>>>>> Intake manifold flange not straight.
Sound right?

As for the timing I have no flippen Idea why I can not get it set. Maybe when I get the manifold straightened, and everything reinstalled I will have someone else come to set it since I am not capable of setting it.:3d_frown:
:1zhelp:Any one want to make a trip to Clearwater, MN??? I have lots of beer, and some cash if you can get my timing right

Thank you again for all the Ideas and helping out trouble shoot this 7m.
- Rob

 

[jdub]

but once AEM EMS can I use it since there is no AFM?

True statement...you can use a filter on the ISCV once you are running speed density on the AEM.

Plan for the PCV is to use a catch can, I just haven't installed it yet because of the idle problems.

You will need a vac source to make the catch can work. Vac from the FFIM, you will need a check valve to prevent a boost leak. Might want to think about having an AN-8 bung welded on the FFIM (while it's out) just aft of the TB.

This is what I am thinking
Idle problem>>> IAC using unmetered air,
Low Vac.>>>>> Intake manifold flange not straight.
Sound right?

Yep! Compounding each other actually.

Concerning the timing issue...these are BC 272 cams?

 

[jetjock]

Also I still don't have a "working" gauge cluster(wrong year cluster) so there is not way for me to check for codes

Say what? You can check for codes without a cluster. Check Vf to see if one is set and if so measure W on the ECU referenced to 12 volts. Doing either of those things will also tell you if you've got a good connection across T and E. That'll hopefully lead to timing it correctly.

 

[IJ.]

No real surprise on the flange Rob...

 

[92nsx]

Concerning the timing issue...these are BC 272 cams?

Yes these are BC 272, I am guessing there will be a noticeable loop at idle.:evil2: As for the timing It will be a learning curve with these cams Im guessing.

You will need a vac source to make the catch can work. Vac from the FFIM, you will need a check valve to prevent a boost leak. Might want to think about having an AN-8 bung welded on the FFIM (while it's out) just aft of the TB.

Um......Now I am double guessing my self? What do you recommend I should use or do? Port it back to intake filter intake? Never the less I will need to add a vacuum port to the FFIM right? If so add AN-8 bung to it. Man I wish people would build these (speaking of Tubbie) FFIM's right the first time.

Say what? You can check for codes without a cluster. Check Vf to see if one is set and if so measure W on the ECU referenced to 12 volts. Doing either of those things will also tell you if you've got a good connection across T and E. That'll hopefully lead to timing it correctly.

I will have to research this some more, I am guessing it is outlined in the TRSM? I will also do some searching here on SM.

 

[jetjock]

When T and E are jumped and the engine is at idle (IDL contact in TPS closed) Vf will be 5 volts if no codes are present and 0 volts if at least one code is set. If you find zero volts nothing says you can't connect a small light bulb across terminal W at the ECU and 12 volts to check codes. Or do it at the cluster connector.

You can also skip the bulb and read codes by counting jumps on the meter, which is how it used to be done on earlier Toyota vehicles that didn't have an MIL and where W was brought out to the diag block. Better yet just skip the Vf thing and go directly to looking at W with the block jumpered.

 

[jdub]

Rob - BC cams seem to have a problem with the phasing of the helical gear on the exhaust cam. Might want to look at this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56763

Concerning the PCV...it's a pretty simple system. My advice would be to set it up like stock with a line to the accordion hose and a line to the TB (or fitting aft of the TB). The difference is you will need a check valve to stop boost from pressurizing the crankcase through the valve covers. welding a fitting on the FFIM will be relatively easy with it out.

Do you have a vac line provision on this FFIM for the FPR and the BOV?

 

[figgie]

As for the timing when I place the CPS back one tooth the best I can get is 6 degrees!! I move it one tooth forward, the best is around 17 (scale on lower timing cover dosent go that far) and the engine sounds like SHIT when at 6 degrees so I left it at the 17 or so range, for now.

Thank you again for all the Ideas and helping out trouble shoot this 7m.
- Rob

Rob,

I hope you know that the CPS is ADJUSTABLE to a certain degree like the distributors of old. The bolt that you remove the CPS is also the adjustment arm.

The way you worded this statement...........

 

[92nsx]

Rob,

I hope you know that the CPS is ADJUSTABLE to a certain degree like the distributors of old. The bolt that you remove the CPS is also the adjustment arm.

The way you worded this statement...........

Yes, I know that LOL. Sorry my wording in my reply was, lets say "funny". To many things going through my mind at that time. Those timing #'s are the BEST or CLOSEST I can get to the base line of 10 degrees with moving the CPS to its max point. :aigo:.

Concerning the PCV...it's a pretty simple system. My advice would be to set it up like stock with a line to the accordion hose and a line to the TB (or fitting aft of the TB). The difference is you will need a check valve to stop boost from pressurizing the crankcase through the valve covers. welding a fitting on the FFIM will be relatively easy with it out.

Do you have a vac line provision on this FFIM for the FPR and the BOV?

I will read into the BC cam link. Thank you for that! It is now proven that my searching skills SUCK!!!!! This is the first time I have seen this thread, and I have search the crap out of BC cams here.

Dose the stock TB have a check valve? If so is it built into it? I have never seen it if it dose have one.

I have 4 total vacuum ports on this FFIM, 1 on back for brake booster, and 3 up front for everything else. One for steering valve, one (3/8") for vacuum block (for the bov, CC, heater, boost sensor, ect.) and one that is pluged at the current time for a MAP sensor for when I go MAP based

When T and E are jumped and the engine is at idle (IDL contact in TPS closed) Vf will be 5 volts if no codes are present and 0 volts if at least one code is set. If you find zero volts nothing says you can't connect a small light bulb across terminal W at the ECU and 12 volts to check codes. Or do it at the cluster connector.

You can also skip the bulb and read codes by counting jumps on the meter, which is how it used to be done on earlier Toyota vehicles that didn't have an MIL and where W was brought out to the diag block. Better yet just skip the Vf thing and go directly to looking at W with the block jumpered.

When I get my intake back I will trace out the W terminal and use a bulb, that dosent sound to bad. Thank you, that is a great idea!

 

[IJ.]

No check valve just a restriction.

 

[92nsx]

Rob - BC cams seem to have a problem with the phasing of the helical gear on the exhaust cam. Might want to look at this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56763

That is the exact problem I am having with the timing!!!!!!!! I just never searched the "ge" section. Only general and GTE. I think with a little cam gear tweaking I might be able to get the timing down. That is after I get my manifold back

 

[racerpage]

Make sure you are getting true top dead center on your intake cam. Lobe should be straight up. You can't always go by factory cam tdc with aftermarket cams. Really should use a degree wheel before dropping the motor in.

 

[92nsx]

Every one is telling me to source a JDM ECU. Well I might have found one, dose any one know the part #'s of a JDM ECU? Or know how to tell if it is JDM and not a US spec.?
I know I should trust what every one says. But now days sellers will tell you anything just so you buy stuff from them, so they can make some money.

How do we know there "is" a different ECU? 21 years later we still can't crack the 16 bit code on this ECU.

One last thing, I got the flange machined on my FFIM . Only $41, I will try and get everything back together tonight or this weekend.