Why I ditched my 7MGTE and went 2JZ NAT with AEM

[Justin727]

800 bucks for my forged setup. Not pricy at all imho!

 

[p5150]

800 bucks for my forged setup. Not pricy at all imho!

So you paid $800 for forged pistons, upgraded rods, rings, con-rod bolts, bearings and machine work?

 

[Justin727]

800 for rods, pistons, rings, bearings, thrust washers, and arp head bolts 400 for machining and balancing.
1200 total. wasnt costly at all.
If you add up everything including price of the car and everything i've done to it from paint and mods i'm still sittin pretty under 5k.


but i do understand not everyone has the same luck as i do. some people have bought their car for 3k plus and doing builds and so on and can run up the bill really quickly!

 

[turbodriz]

So what actually makes the 2jz-ge different from the gte besides the pistons.

(not that it will really make a difference I already purchased a 1j.)

 

[RacerXJ220]

Pistons, no oil squirters, no 12 point crank sensor. that's pretty much it.

 

[Insidious Surmiser]

and too bad half the MK3s are rodknocked BHG paper weights?*



I'd rather have a 2J NA-T anyday over a 7M.

agreed... soon as i get better money flow 7m mkii and 2j mkiii for me :biglaugh:

 

[p5150]

Pistons, no oil squirters, no 12 point crank sensor. that's pretty much it.

Dont forget that the head casting is different also. You cant purchase a turbo kit for a GTE and expect to bolt it up to a GE. The flanges and ports are different.

But, if you already have a setup for a 7MGTE and dont have a front facing intake this should mate up to your IC pipes pretty closely. Ill be fabbing a FFI when I get it dropped in along with the 3" pipes.

But, most turbo Supras built for performance are big singles anyway right? Why spend all that dough for a TT engine when you can throw in a head gasket and have essentially the same motor? Its not just a 500 dollar difference- most vendors want around 3k. F that.

 

[RacerXJ220]

I thought he was just talking about the bottom end.

p5150, you know it all ***

 

[SMP142]

has anyone had problems pushing the GE to high hp numbers? i know the ignition would have to be changed. but the lack of oil squirters seems kinda imoprtant in my opinion. with the heads being different on the GE and GTE how do you go about getting exahust manifolds and lets say a FFIM? would you have to go with an IS300 turbo kit or something?

 

[p5150]

has anyone had problems pushing the GE to high hp numbers? i know the ignition would have to be changed. but the lack of oil squirters seems kinda imoprtant in my opinion. with the heads being different on the GE and GTE how do you go about getting exahust manifolds and lets say a FFIM? would you have to go with an IS300 turbo kit or something?

No, 6-700 hp has not been a problem. www.clubna-t.com

Purchase a lexus turbo kit.

A FFIM has to be custom - as with the 7MGTE. I spent 200 making my last one.

 

[SMP142]

this sounds interesting. i was planning on building up my current 7M. but, the more i read on this subject, the more i think about changing my mind. i would have less down time for my car also. only thing is i have some of my parts i need for my 7m build already. now has anyone tried using megasquirt on this setup yet? i know the AEM is great but still a little pricey. hm....... decisions...decisions.....

 

[p5150]

I saved up for awhile to get my AEM. Im glad I bought it. You dont have to get the NA version - you can get a used TT unit also... I think the only thing that wont work is your AC.

 

[figgie]

1. A used 2JZ is more durable/reliable.

only as good as the person takes care of it.

220,000 miles here on a modded 7m. Never BHG, never rod knock until the day it died no thanks to an ice patch and over rev.

2. A used 2JZGE can be sourced very easily for 400 bucks or less. You can re-use the head/rod/cap bolts. 300 for a thick HG and other assorted gaskets. Dont tell me you can build a comprable 7M for that price.

you are aware that your all might 2jz has 10mm head bolts instead of the 12mm that came stock with the 7m. The 2jz guys "upgrade" to a 1/2 bolt which coincidently is only a measly .028 inches BIGGER than the stock 7m headbolts.

3. Im sick of scored camshafts.

This right there gives away your issue. Lack of oil cause by user error.
After I took my 200,000+ mile motor apart. The cam shafts had ZERO scoring on them, they where slightly polished and reused

4. Piggyback computers always have some quirk to work with or re-program. Going with a 2JZGE(T) and AEM keeps it under $2k.

ahh the good ole AEM, where the consumer beta test new firmware upgrades for them... yep sounds like a winner! Thanks but I will stay away from EMS that enjoy flooding engines with fuel and the user has to find out that the EMS did it without any inputs telling it too.....

5. I am sick of rodknock. Dont tell me its my fault.

Unfortunatly it IS. See the cam scoring reply

6. The bottom end of a 2JZ is designed/built better than a 7M.

6 bolt mains on both. cranks are counter balanced. hmmm. Now where exactly is the 2jz better? Facts please not bullshit heresay.

]7. The stock valves are 1.5mm larger in a 2JZ. Oversize valves in a 7m still wont flow as well.

Perhaps you need to chit chat with Allan"Defaint7m"Sterlin on that one. He actually got the 7m head to flow like nothing, not even a modded 2jz head could

8. A 2jz wraps to higher RPMs.

warps higher like what? 9500? Mibrum out in EU. spinning that much if not more on a 7m

man i see TONS of speculatives from you an no facts. I enjoy dismantling this type of posts.

 

[89supturbo]

1. 2j's have held more poower than 7m's have its not debateable its just the truth
2. I removed my 7m head bolts with a 10mm hex rachet plus no one makes an L19 headbolt for the 7m
3 and 5. it could be that everyone but you is retarded in this community or it could be that toyota made an engine that flowed more oil using new technology on the 2j
4. if you dont like AEM there are many other options, many people have done very well with it however and it has absolutely nothing to do with an engine debate but for the record there is a 7m AEM
6. the rods are better theres a side by side comparison in arrons 5m 7m build thread and again they've held more power
7. lets see some flow sheets, his head v. TMS stage 3 race head
8. if its oiling is better it can spin faster

you seem to be the only person that has had enough luck with your 7m to say that its better than a 2j while the majority prefers the more technically advanced 2j so why are you asking him for facts your the one trying to debate the established rules, BTW you wouldnt happen to have any ASE patchs would you figgie?

 

[figgie]

1. 2j's have held more poower than 7m's have its not debateable its just the truth

really?
<-- apparently HKS was running a 2jz then!!

2. I removed my 7m head bolts with a 10mm hex rachet plus no one makes an L19 headbolt for the 7m

congrats, that is the correct allen head measurement but the thread itself is 12mm x 1.25 so you were ALMOST correct When a bolt is measured, the pitch of the thread and the diameter of the thread is what is explained by the numbers i posted.

3 and 5. it could be that everyone but you is retarded in this community or it could be that toyota made an engine that flowed more oil using new technology on the 2j

you would be suprised by the amount of stupidity and the things that are taken for granted until people are EDUCATED on such trivialties. Funny that it is not only me, DrJonez, IJ., Adjuster, all the old crew, never had any oiling issues, bring in the rookies and look at that, rod knock problems. funny to say the least.

4. if you dont like AEM there are many other options, many people have done very well with it however and it has absolutely nothing to do with an engine debate but for the record there is a 7m AEM/

and there is a megasquirt 7m too.

You can polish a turd but it is still a turd.

6. the rods are better theres a side by side comparison in arrons 5m 7m build thread and again they've held more power

I am a man of science. Side by side is just like a butt dyno. Influenced by Placebo, get some measurements for psi failure, stress areas, and all that good engineering "stuff" THEN and only then we can talk.

7. lets see some flow sheets, his head v. TMS stage 3 race head

get them yourself. Search in SF for allan"defiant7m"sterling. Please notice the part in quotation as he did that with a purpose.

8. if its oiling is better it can spin faster

hmm odd that you say that.

Bernoulli meet 89supturbo
89supturbo meet Bernoulli

now on to why this gentleman is important to the oiling system. Not only did toyota do the 7m oiling correctly it was actaully downright INGENIOUS.

See, pressure is bad. Pressure is a RESISTANCE TO FLOW. Pressure also equals to higher overall tempratures According to Mr. Bernoulli, as VELOCITY of a fluid rises the pressure decreases or said another way, as Pressure INCREASES velocity decreases. What does this mean in english and for oil systems? Quite simple actually, if you have a high volume at high pressure, then the velocity (total FLOW) of that said oil through out the system is LOW (meaning it takes 3 seconds from pump to main bearings, etc). Now lower the resistance of the oil system and now you have high volume at HIGH velocity (which means 1 second from pump to main bearings etc) get the oil in and out of where it needs to go quickly. Here is the ingenious part. Toyota knew this and decided to do a HIGH VOLUME, Low Pressure oil system on the 7m instead of the Low volume High pressure!

The myth that keeps on getting tossed around is not only flawed but incorrect.

you seem to be the only person that has had enough luck with your 7m to say that its better than a 2j while the majority prefers the more technically advanced 2j so why are you asking him for facts your the one trying to debate the established rules, BTW you wouldnt happen to have any ASE patchs would you figgie?

only person? nope, plenty of other folks that have had no issues either, just they don't waste time with these sorts of threads as they are always the same ignorance displayed It is that Giant wave of stupidity that always pops up.

as for ASE. Hell no.

 

[89supturbo]

really?

as for ASE. Hell no.

thats all you needed to say, thank you for your ameture opinions but the only good tech advice is that of some one with certifications

 

[MidShipCivic]

you seem to be the only person that has had enough luck with your 7m to say that its better than a 2j while the majority prefers the more technically advanced 2j so why are you asking him for facts your the one trying to debate the established rules, BTW you wouldnt happen to have any ASE patchs would you figgie?

Well as far as just saying stuff goes figgies right on that part.

P5150 is just saying experience he's had with his 7m however this isnt proven,
a motor like the 7m series doesnt just '' delevelope rod rock'' for the hell of it, its not a design fault in the 7m.
A motor delevelopes this 2 ways: a user error or a design fault, like mitsubishi's design fault with there crankwalk problem in the 7 bolt 4g63.


AEM there okay... You can take one for the 2j and put it right on a 7mgte it doesnt matter since AEM can use just about any sensor.

p5150
6. The bottom end of a 2JZ is designed/built better than a 7M.

False, there bottom end webbing is just as thick.

8. A 2jz wraps to higher RPMs.

What defines this?



Sure I can go say things with no elaborate sensable explanation, but you might want to get your head check your doing an old vs new thing then you speak of modification stay in one lane with that.

You dont need to be '' ASE '' to know things like that.

 

[figgie]

thats all you needed to say, thank you for your ameture opinions but the only good tech advice is that of some one with certifications

psst.

ASE just knows the TIP of the engine iceberg, I on the other hand understand and KNOW the PHYSICS with equations and all yes including Fluid dynamics, thermo Dynamics, kinematics etc.


lol

p.s.

It is Amateur!!!

 

[MidShipCivic]

If someone with cert like p5150 is what you are looking for then all I will say is GOOD luck on that misinformation.

lol

p.s.

It is Amateur!!!

Dont worry about him going on about ASE you dont need it, it's a certification that you need to keep taking test for every few years to keep.

It's nothing a tuner needs.

 

[figgie]

Dont worry about him going on about ASE you dont need it, it's a certification that you need to keep taking test for every few years to keep.

It's nothing a tuner needs.

Yeah I know