What should I do while the head is off to prevent more problems??

[jazzsaxman1988]

3p- Yeah, it's not too hard, but when you pull muscles in your back that refuse to heal, you tend to want to take the easy way out as much as possible, lol. And besides, you can do most everything short of machine work with simple hand tools, but yet people get air/impact tools. It's all just to make life as easy as possible. And technically you could do it... but you'd have to jimmy-rig some sort of clutch into the starter that you know will give at the proper torque, then reverse polarity to the starter. I know, it's unwise and a lot of work, but it can be done! ;-) Lol.

Figit- Looking good... Can't wait to see her run.

 

[Figit090]

jazz - thanks, yeah neither can i. I think i might do some more tomorrow, i have independant study PE assignemts that i have to do though so it might keep me busy. i have 25 hours of stuff to do each week for this class to make room for next year's schedule because the stupid class list wouldnt fit my choices with PE stuck in there... blah!!

so yeah... i have a lot to do. once i'm done i'm going to detail some stuff and look into painting those wheels.

oh i just realised you have the same year and type as me

 

[jazzsaxman1988]

Hahaha, yeah. We do have the same year and type. Only difference is that yours is black and mine is white. Lol.

 

[Figit090]

i think i might end up using toyota head bolts if they are cheaper, because I'm not going for heavy duty stuff and bolts are bolts. ARPs would probably last through more teardowns but i wont be doing any. I need to do some more research and see what people usually use, maybe a poll if i can.

 

[jazzsaxman1988]

Haha. Save the time spent teardowns and use it on a turbo somewhere in the future. ;-)

 

[Figit090]

huh?

 

[Figit090]

thought i'd drop in a little update.

I'm going out to the garage in a few minutes to get the head off my engine finally, dad will be out there w/me incase i need help. I'm going to remove the radiator, anything left on the head, and then the timing gears and cams. Hopefully the tsrm has a good explination on cam removal...seems pretty straightforward.

thats it for now. pics and updates once the head is removed.

 

[Figit090]

Allrighty. I finally was able to get the head off of the engine, and i have lots of pics but i'll try and keep it resonable... i might resize after posting if needbe. sorry for it's length.

Where I was at the time of my last post

Cams removed

closeup

Head removed - comments on this further down...

Cylinder closeups with headgasket still on the block - they are posted in backward order for correct perspective, layed out as if you were standing over the engine looking at it yourself.

CYLINDER 6

CYLINDER 5

CYLINDER 4

CYLINDER 3

CYLINDER 2

CYLINDER 1

Head bolt, can anyone tell me if this is an original toyota or what brand it might be? There are obvious signs that the head has been removed before i owned the car.

Here is the dead giveaway that the head has been removed, The EGR cooler was re-sealed and whoever did it was sloppy. it could have been done with the engine out of the car, but somehow i doubt that.

I'm not sure if this stud is broken or just loose but it wiggles a bit and its rusted to crap...its a stud for the water inlet/outlet thermostat piece.

Here are two shots of the valves, first pic is the front end of the head.

Obviously I had a pretty good exaust leak as well by the carbon on the manifold, head, and this gasket...notice the 6th is gone...it fell somewhere when i removed it.:icon_conf

--------EDIT---------\/


I'll have a picture of just the HG later, if i remember right at least 2 cylinders had it, and likely another third. maybe you guys can tell if i show you. #1 and #6 were hevily deformed.


What should I clean the block and head with? obviously some solvent and a scraper but i'll take any suggestions for a good clean and a safe scraper that won't mar the surfaces.

Does anyone know if i have to clean the head or if the machine shop will? i might have to call for that but...what did you do?

that's all for now. I have to do some stuff. thanks for looking and i apologise if the size is too long...i can shorten and shrink the pics if you want. let me know!

 

[Hobbes992]

Very cool pics man. I work at autozone and I can tell you that looks EXACTLY like a fel-pro headgasket for the 7mge. Which is very shitty and cheap. I don't know what the stock hg looks like but I know that if it looks as crappy as that... jeez. There's a section on the Cygnus site that shows the results of using MCCC and it looks pretty good.
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/techtip/headswap.html
Don't forget to test the head for warping, and I've heard some nasty stories about people getting themselves screwed by bad machine jobs so definitely goto somewhere reputable and don't do it all if you don't need to.

 

[Figit090]

thanks a lot! I actually have quite a few more good ones...individual valve cluster pics and such...but didnt want a mile long post and i actually hit the image limit. But anyway.. I was wondering that kind of gasket it was... I'm going to get a photo of just the gasket, it has some nasty bulging expecially on #6. part of the coolant port ripped free... POS...

I think I might get new bolts just because I have a feeling these are toyota pieces and they probably shouldnt be used again if they have been once already. none of the bolts were loose but i had to put all my strength into getting some bolts out and if they should all be that way then some werent as tight. but whatever.

thanks for the link. his site rocks...and the online TSRM is a lifesaver.

you say dont do it all if i dont need to...what do you mean?


I have another question i forgot to ask, besides the other questions that haven't been answered, do i need to remove the exaust manifold and have it surfaced as well or what? probably at least the surfacing but its never mentioned. Now it's time to make final decisions on gaskets and bolts, and later call the machine shop for pricing and more specifics.

i'm halfway there!!!

 

[3p141592654]

spec for manifold warpage.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/em/EM_49.html

 

[Figit090]

ah, thank you. It's nice that i can do it myself. Theres a lot of surface rust to clean first though. i think today is my cleaning day, go through and clean everything.

 

[Hobbes992]

Oh I just meant if you don't need to get the head machined due to warpage... don't! Haha no need, it would just be like doing something that REALLY doesn't need to be done. definitely double double check it if you think it's warped. All your valve seals should be replaced though and possibly the guides depending on their condition. When valve seals go bad it sucks big floppy donkey dick. They could technically be replaced with the head still on but it's supposedly a pita because if you don't put a piece of nylon rope in the chamber or have the piston on the compression cycle perfectly, the valve could drop into the chamber :cry: :cry: :cry: They're relatively cheap and as far as I'm aware you can do it yourself for free because most auto parts stores rent the tools to do it for free! You basically pay for the tool and you get refunded in full on it's undamaged return! Now, measuring to make sure the valves are up to specs is something I'm not as knowledgable on, I'm sure you CAN do it yourself but as far as I'm aware most people just trust it to professionals. Even my haynes manual recommends that kind of work to be left to someone with more expertise, haha but I'm sure the tsrm can tell you how to do it properly.

 

[supramacist]

Well.., Someone payed to do a head job on my car and then promptly attempted to find a buyer nd boy was I a sucker. WHen they did the hg the dropped the head down and torqued one side and then the other causing the exhaust side coppers to all kink up causing dramatic fluid loss at high rpm. And now my head is in the shop and I am looking at 500$ to have the entire thing taken and made as close to knew as I possibley can. they tell me they can only shave 8 thousandths off, and mine was warped 7 thousandths. So I would rather pay someone 40$ to shave 2 thousandths off of it, instead of purchasing another head.

 

[jazzsaxman1988]

Toyota head bolts are reusable! You don't need to replace them just because they've been used once before! Those look to be in particularly good shape- I wouldn't mind using them on my engine. Lol. A machine shop will clean the head for you. They take them and stick them in a hot tank, which cleans them up really nicely. Then they resurface them (if you need it) and then clean it up in a solvent bath. A good way to find good machine shops is to ask around the area at dealerships and garages to find out where they send engines for machine work. This will give you an indicator of who is good and who isn't. A resurfacing will run you between $40 and $50 more than likely. So- there isn't much to be gained by being stingy!

Hobbes- agreed- the work should be left to someone with the proper expertise. If you decide to do it yourself, then you need to take the caps off and KEEP THEM IN THE PROPER ORDER!!! Everything is particular to the cylinder and valve on the engine. Then you need to take the springs out, which can be done by taking a socket that's the same size approximately as the spring, set it on the top of the spring, and hit it with a hammer. Make sure you do this on a soft surface if the head is off, and make sure the cylinder isn't at full compression if it's on, because the valve will move down when you do this. If it meets with a hard surface, you'll bend it. Then you take the springs out and the two little clips that pop out of the spring retainer and keep them in order. If anything gets out of order, you're screwed, and you'll have to take it to a machine shop.

Good luck!

 

[Figit090]

Hobbes - thanks, and i think I also agree on letting it to a professional. I read the TSRM and i just dont think i'm there yet, too much to worry about and a lot to do in order not to mess it up. i'd rather pay someone else on this one. i figure i'm saving enough already doing the BHG rebuild on my own

supramacist - by exaust coppers are you talking about those copper ports for coolant? mine were messed up to! the centers were raised up like they were stuck in a press and dented upward... like yours? Good luck with your head... i hope i dont ahve to pay that much...i'll be left with around 400 and that is like 6 months insurance. oh boy.

jazzsaxman - thanks, i am going to clean and check every bolt and see how they look. I was a bit worried because the head seems to have been removed at least once already so i figured they might be ok once and not more than that... if i know the correct length maybe i could check them?

just to clear things up, what are the common BHG fixing terms for the head, resurfacing and decking? or is shaving a better word?

as i take it...resurfacing is just getting a nice surface, and decking/shaving is taking off metal, or much more metal than in resurfacing in order to flatten the hills. is that right?

so...if that is correct... resurfacing is cheap and decking/shaving is much more...right?

 

[jazzsaxman1988]

If you're going to have the head resurfaced, you should get them to measure the head to see how much if any has been taken off of it. This goes for the valves as well- if you're getting the valves done, then you might run into trouble if they've been ground before. I had mine done, and this it the last time I'll be able to grind them down because they're becoming too shallow. Watch those things!

 

[Figit090]

yeah i was worrying about that today...i didnt think of it until a friend asked me about it and then i realised as i was telling him the head has been off and probably had a BHG before that i realised it might be shaved already.

lets hope that it wont need much eh? lol.

and thanks I will keep that in mind. i think tomorrow i'm calling the shop if everything goes well. there is a remote possibility that i will take it in since i'm going that way but probably later this week if i can get the gasket set.

I think i'm going to buy the toyota gasket set... and it looks like i'll be keeping my bolts.. i need to find out how to check them to make sure they're ok first though... can anyone tell me?

 

[mickyg]

Wow Figit, that head gasket is nasty!

That out of the way, let's see if I can answer a few of your questions:

• The bolts are definitely Toyota OE parts (unless someone else makes black head bolts) - But I think you already figured that out.
• Looks like the answer to your question about what to use to clean the head has been aswered as well..
• Shaving typically refers to removing material and can indicate fixing a warped head, surfacing is usually to just smooth a surface out, decking is generally used when referring to the block, not the head.
• Make sure you find a reputable machinist. The only thing worse than having work done that wasn't necessary is having it done poorly!

 

[supramacist]

that's exactly what my 91 looked like component wise and all. It's going to end up eing mid winter before this car is running.