What should I do while the head is off to prevent more problems??

[Figit090]

oh ok, well i'll figure that out once the head is off. I have a few more questions now;

Right now I got the exaust manifold brace unbolted and it will move over, i discovered that the broken stud caused an decent exaust leak...fried part of the gasket and there is considerable carbon on some other cylinders. just thought i'd share.

I need advice on this though, I want to change the timing belt while i have it off but it says i have to remove the main crankshaft pulley AND i need a SST to do so... do i really need to remove that pulley? if so is there another way to work around using the SST or can i use something else? I dont think i have the tool...

What's VSV? it says to watch out for that in head removal. I found something online called a Variable Stator Vane, but dont know what that looks like.

I'm going out now get it to TDC, loosen the head bolts, and remove anything that might hang up on the head when i pull up, such as fuel tubes and cables.

i'll check back in a bit.

 

[IJ.]

VSV= VaccSwitchingValve

Sometimes you can get lucky and the dampener will slide off once it's unbolted but most times you'll need a puller of some sort.

(I've used a pair of crow bars to lever it off in the past taking car not to crack the timing cover)

 

[Figit090]

dampener? i'm guessing that's the little plate that's behind the bolt on the main pulley?

I wasn't even thinking of how to pull it off, i was thinking of the SST that allows you to hold the pully/shaft steady while you proceed to unbolt the thing...without it the driveshaft will just spin, unless you have something else to hold it.

tips on that? My timing belt looks good so i might just skip it and do it some other time...it's easy enough to acess. i'd rather do it than do the sparkplugs...lol

i have a wheel/bearing buller that should do the trick i think for pulling, it's just getting that bolt off. of course toyota says you need a tool for that (one with prongs to insert into the holes in the pulley) but if there is another safe way i'll go ahead and do it.

 

[IJ.]

Dampener=front pully or balancer

 

[jazzsaxman1988]

You don't need to take it off to accomplish what you need. Unless I'm mistaken the manual tells you to put the belt back on the camshafts after you install the harmonic balancer. So- I'd just leave it on if I were you. Also- speaking from my experiences over the past few days- you might want to take the camshafts off of the head to prevent damage to the valves when you put it on/take it off or the head gasket when you go to put it back on.

 

[IJ.]

There's an alloy timing cover behind it that will stop you getting the belt off.

Dampener>Cover>Belt

 

[Figit090]

yes i see the assembly of it all. thanks IJ, and jazzsaxman, i've looked and based on what i see and confirmed by IJ i dont think the belt can be removed or replaced without removing said parts

if there is a good tool i could find to hold the main pully or "dampener" i will do a timing belt job...looks to be straightforward except for holding the silly pulley.

BUT! It was changed by a shop at 56k miles and i'm at approx 108k now so it's not too bad...technically time for a change but the belt looks fine and i think i'll leave it on, i can always remove this stuff and do it later, seeing its right at the front and not under many parts...its nothing compared to a BHG.

I have one thing to ask about before i take the head of, you all mention removing the camshafts... how do (could) they cause damage? I'm not sure how they could, unless maybe an open valve could hit the head? I've never done this before or seen the inside of a car engine like this up close, so i'm kind of relying on what you guys are telling me on some things. Maybe i have to remove them either way for the machine shop? not sure, i need to make the call i guess.

thanks again for all your help everyone, i'm hoping to be able to get the head done at the shop this week if things go as planned. i dont know where i'd be without you all.

 

[jazzsaxman1988]

My bad guys- I missed the part where you said you wanted to change it. I thought you were only pulling the head, not the belt as well. Sorry for the misread! As far as getting the balancer off, I've seen people take a flex handle with a 19mm socket, wedge the handle up against the chassis and use the starter to loosen it. I've never tried it myself, only observed, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. Seems as though it couldn't be too healthy for the starter. Also if the handle was thrown it might hurt your radiator. If I were going about taking the balancer off, I think I'd probably take the radiator out to give enough room to get an impact wrench on it. This isn't something that is easily taken off- 170-ish ft/lbs of torque doesn't loosen easily. If you don't have access to air tools, you might want to think about the starter method. But like I said, it's at your own risk. BTW- the tranny is your friend. Use it to keep the engine from being able to turn. Chock the wheels if need be. Best of luck!

 

[trydrew]

Yeah 170 ft/lbs is more torque then most hondas make...
:biglaugh:

But if you try the way jazz mentioned with the breaker bar resting on the chassis then cranking the starter, just know the way the crank turns. If your looking at the enigne, it will turn clockwise, therefore you should remove the battery and set the bar that way. Just be careful. Ive heard stories of people who thought otherwise and ended up anialating their battery.

Also I'm in the same situation with the timing belt. heh I just decided i'd come back to it. Just as you already mentioned, its easier going in the valley in front of mount 7M then climbing to the summit. :icon_bigg

 

[IJ.]

197 ft/lbs is even harder to undo !

 

[Figit090]

yeah by what you guys are telling me i dont think i'm going to do it. and the starter thing is a good (albeit risky) idea. I like the tranny thing...i was trying to move the crank to get to TDC and couldn't...then my dad said; "Is the tranny in gear?" yeah...i felt kinda silly.

jazz- what damage can occur and how does it happen if i choose to keep the camshafts in? I'm taking them out but i'm still curious. I need to rig something to hold the gears first though.

If anyone cares to make a suggestion on that i'm all ears..or eyes rather. I'm probably just going to take a length of metal and use some high-TS bolts. threaded through...

 

[jazzsaxman1988]

With the camshafts in, 4 out of your 24 valves are going to be open at any given time. When you go to line the head up on the block, the valves will gouge into the head gasket if you aren't careful. When you take the head off, the valves are in danger of being bent when there down due to rough handling, unexpected mishaps and so forth. Trust me- I had a head fall out of the back of my truck one time. Not fun at all- bent valves, bent water pump studs, it was ridiculous. And as far as holding the cam gears- I usually loosen them while the the timing belt is still on. Makes life much easier. If you've already taken the belt off, you could use a large screwdriver to wedge the gear in place. Or you can take a wrench and put it on the camshaft itself. You'll notice that in the large spaces between lobes, there are squared off sections. A wrench on there and a socket on the gear does the trick.

 

[Figit090]

coolio, thanks a lot. I'd try using the belt for leverage but i dont want to risk damaging it. i'll try the wrench thing.

 

[supramacist]

Figit you lil tirdlet...., You are going to have your car running before mine. I was hoping we would get done about the same time. But I have possible impound issues going on with my car. so It's staying right where it's at....., In the garage. While I learn how to port and polish. Get the new starter bro. I can hear that pre going out spinning type og grinding sound coming from the alternator. I'm probably going to just get a new one.

 

[Figit090]

Figit you lil tirdlet...., You are going to have your car running before mine. I was hoping we would get done about the same time. But I have possible impound issues going on with my car. so It's staying right where it's at....., In the garage. While I learn how to port and polish. Get the new starter bro. I can hear that pre going out spinning type og grinding sound coming from the alternator. I'm probably going to just get a new one.

lol...sry man. chances are we will finish around the same time... unless this impound thing is serious and might actually happen...to a crippled car...?

heh...you could take it apart and deny that you have a car... "I have a pile of metal...that's it, i swear!"

I'd get a new starter but i dont need one and thats more work i wont need to do. at least right now. its like the timing belt...its there and eaiser to reach now but not practical to do so.... i could change my mind but i think my starter was fine....:naughty:

 

[3p141592654]

Put the car in 5th gear, chock the wheels, get an impact socket, breaker bar, and a 3 foot piece of black gas pipe to use as an extension. The bolt will come loose with a loud crack! You will need a torque wrench good to 197ft-lbs to put it back on.

The problem with the starter approach is that it gets the bolt off, but how are you going to torque it back to 197 ft-lbs.... Can't use the starter to do that!

 

[jazzsaxman1988]

3p- It's much easier to torque something up than to loosen it from torque. The heat and torque from the crank make it incredibly difficult to break loose. And besides- you're going to break your back retorquing it, why break it twice by having to loosen it the hard way as well?

Figit- just had a thought. Make sure you grease up that main pulley bolt liberally before you retorque it, or if you ever have to take it off again, it'll be 10x as hard and you'll probably damage threads doing it.

SM- ouch- that sucks. Hope the popos don't get your car, man. I'm with figit though, disassemble it and swear that you don't have a car. Lol.

 

[3p141592654]

jazz- fair enough. My point was only that you better have a plan to torque it back up that includes a big torque wrench and a way to keep the crank locked. BTW with the gas pipe extension even a weakling like me can get it to come off!

 

[Figit090]

well i dont think i'll risk complication at this time... i can wait. i wont be racing or anything and i'd rather do it later anyway. i want to hear her run and that will only slow that process down. I lost the feeling of having a car...i'm to the point where getting it to run again will feel like recieving her all over again... i'll just leave the timing belt in the engine.

I have some homework (yes summer work) and after than i'm going to go out and look for a good peice of metal to hold those timing gears while i unbolt them.

 

[Figit090]

incase anyone would like to see what it looks like right now...my friend came over and snapped this pic..... first hi-res i've had of the car...so i thought i'd post it. lol.:naughty: its also proof i'm getting somewhere.