Religion rant (if easily offended, should probably not enter)

Facime

Leather work expert
Jun 1, 2006
2,716
0
0
60
Corvallis OR
Furball said:
P.S. Your ideas do not anger me nor make me want to yell at you. They cannot be blasphmy if you are not Christian. I can only consider them the wrong path. That is all.

nor does your rediculous interpretation of reality anger me. I only wish more people had the inner strength to not have to rely on "god" to explain the things they cannot. By putting your faith in things external things you waste energy that could be used for the collective betterment of spirit. (but that really is a trade off, because by become strong in your faith you prop up the collective spirit some, however misguided it may be)

I will try to be more tolerant of christians...many do good things, and are good people. I have no problem with that.
 

Facime

Leather work expert
Jun 1, 2006
2,716
0
0
60
Corvallis OR
ValgeKotkas said:
Weezl, this I will remember (how you phrased it), cause my theory is closely same :)
May the Energy be with you! ;)
Thx!

ROFL
actually there is alot of really good theory in Star Wars. but I get my spiritual direction from a combination of Paganism, Buddism, Taoism and Shamanism.
 

cadman

Computer Aided Drafting
Aug 10, 2006
87
0
0
Oregon
I just want to throw out some questions, and really, I truely do want to know the answers to this. I'm not trying to back anyone into a corner here.

How did you come about learning that we are all gods in a way, so that all of us are part of a collection of spirits? (we are all god)

If someone wanted to believe in this, and truely wanted to pursue this type of thought, what would they have to change in their life to do so, if anything?

Where would they get more information about it? Do people teach on it?

How long has it been around?

And from an outside view, what I see in this way of thinking is that you really don't have to change anything to think this way. (I'm just looking from an outside viewpoint.) Is there any perks of believing this way?

Just more to talk about is all.
 

Facime

Leather work expert
Jun 1, 2006
2,716
0
0
60
Corvallis OR
cadman said:
How did you come about learning that we are all gods in a way, so that all of us are part of a collection of spirits? (we are all god)

first of all I did not mean to imply we are all "gods". Individually we are very little, only a tiny fraction of the whole. but we are also all equal in that whole, and collectively we make up the greater being. Think of it in this way. Each of the cells in your body have the genetic coding that makes you what you are. Each and every cell in a sense IS you...and yet is not. Much like the cells in our body, our spirits are both the one and the all. Secondly, I believe my purpose in this particular lifetime was to understand the meaning of my own spirituality. So I have taken the opportunity to seek out information and view with an open mind all that I saw.

If someone wanted to believe in this, and truely wanted to pursue this type of thought, what would they have to change in their life to do so, if anything?

you dont have to change anything in your life. If you understand the concepts then you will naturally change because you "see" things more clearly. This belief system does not have "rules" per se, there is no doctrine that can be taught...it is simply a higher understanding of what you are.


Where would they get more information about it? Do people teach on it?

Well, yes...and no. what I believe in has no structure, its more like free form spiritualty. It is as individual as we all are. At the same time, the principals are quite easily found by opening yourself up to your spirit and seeking out your own direction. (I know thats easy to say...hard to do) My sence is spirituality comes from my collective experiences. Native Americans used to go on vision quests and spend time in sweat lodges seeking this understanding. Some different religions go on pilgramages, or fast for extened periods of time. The more modern western way is to study it. I would be happy to recommend a few books that can get you started down the path if you like.

How long has it been around?

The roots of Paganism and Shamanism go back 10's of thousands of years, Buddhism and Taoism go back about 2500 years. Spirituality has existed since the beginning of life.


And from an outside view, what I see in this way of thinking is that you really don't have to change anything to think this way. (I'm just looking from an outside viewpoint.) Is there any perks of believing this way?

As I already said, you dont have to change anything, but you will naturally. Spirituality is not about "perks" unless you want to include a sense of peace in your life as a "perk". the greatest difference between what I believe and what christians believe is where spirit comes from. Christians beleive it comes from the outside, We believe it comes from the inside. The phrase used by many modern pagans is "as within, so without" one way of interpreting that is to say that if you examine things on a small scale you can find understanding of the things on the greater scale (like my analogy of the individual cells in our body to the individual spirits that make up the whole). Put another way, once you can understand yourself, you can understand others.

Just more to talk about is all.


I am happy to share my views with anyone who asks. I appreciate the fact that you worded your message in a way to make it sound non-threatening...I hope I read that correctly as you actually wanting to lean more as opposed to me trying to defend my belief system.
Unlike most Christians i am not "charged" with the responsibilty of recruiting more people to my cause.
 

Furball

Yes, I play Halo
Apr 2, 2005
183
0
0
41
Merced, CA
Why do you say recruiting? We don't have to "recruit", we chose to go out and preach the gospel becuase we care, and want others to know why we believe in the hopes that they may as well. It isn't for any personal gain that I tell you my beliefs, nor for the gain of some earth bound church. I tell you so that you may at least know about God and His nature.
 

Facime

Leather work expert
Jun 1, 2006
2,716
0
0
60
Corvallis OR
Furball said:
Why do you say recruiting? We don't have to "recruit", we chose to go out and preach the gospel becuase we care, and want others to know why we believe in the hopes that they may as well. It isn't for any personal gain that I tell you my beliefs, nor for the gain of some earth bound church. I tell you so that you may at least know about God and His nature.


well you may see it that way, but many christian organizations dont. To a large degree Christian doctine revolves around making sure the "church" remains strong, both in terms of power through population and through monetary support. The more people in a church the more financial stability and power they have. I believe this is the main reason why Catholics are against birth control and Mormons (though not directly considered "christian" per se) have specific doctrine outlining the desire for larger families. They will say its about "sin" but the underlying reason is about power. (this is just my opinion, and Im entitled to it...I have no real proof of it)

Like I said, not all christians personally feel this way, it is however a driving force behind their doctrine I believe.
 

cadman

Computer Aided Drafting
Aug 10, 2006
87
0
0
Oregon
theWeezL said:
I am happy to share my views with anyone who asks. I appreciate the fact that you worded your message in a way to make it sound non-threatening...I hope I read that correctly as you actually wanting to lean more as opposed to me trying to defend my belief system.
Unlike most Christians i am not "charged" with the responsibilty of recruiting more people to my cause.

I absolutly meant it as a polite request for information, and in no way wanted to force or push my views on you. I also believe that the more information I have in this area, the better I can understand people, and answer their questions about my religion.

Thank you for your reply, and I as well appriciate the way you worded it. Not as a defence, but as a relay of information.

Now, if you wanted to compare our beliefs, or talk about them in a friendly matter, that's another story, and I enjoy doing that. However, I believe you don't do that publicly, because one might feel threatened.
 

johnathan1

Supra =
Aug 19, 2005
5,056
1
36
36
Downey, California, United States
Furball said:
Why do you say recruiting? We don't have to "recruit", we chose to go out and preach the gospel becuase we care, and want others to know why we believe in the hopes that they may as well. It isn't for any personal gain that I tell you my beliefs, nor for the gain of some earth bound church. I tell you so that you may at least know about God and His nature.

sure...;)
 

cadman

Computer Aided Drafting
Aug 10, 2006
87
0
0
Oregon
theWeezL said:
well you may see it that way, but many christian organizations dont. To a large degree Christian doctine revolves around making sure the "church" remains strong, both in terms of power through population and through monetary support. The more people in a church the more financial stability and power they have. I believe this is the main reason why Catholics are against birth control and Mormons (though not directly considered "christian" per se) have specific doctrine outlining the desire for larger families. They will say its about "sin" but the underlying reason is about power. (this is just my opinion, and Im entitled to it...I have no real proof of it)

Like I said, not all christians personally feel this way, it is however a driving force behind their doctrine I believe.

Sadly, some churches do have this reputation. They actually tell you how much money you should give the church. My wife's church was like this. I didn't like that, I felt then that it wasn't a gift to give back to God, it was a payment that needed to be given to stay "holy".

In my mind, and in the circle of Christian people I am with, everyone has a very real and very straight forward choice. And I personally know families with a son that didn't want to be a Christian, and left. That was his choice, he wasn't forced. Just so that some people understand it's not a cult.

Just as some Police officers have a bad name because of one bad cop, Christians have bad names because of an amplified extreme group of "Christians" who do not follow what we believe.
 

JustAnotherVictim

Supramania Contributor
cadman said:
Sadly, some churches do have this reputation. They actually tell you how much money you should give the church. My wife's church was like this. I didn't like that, I felt then that it wasn't a gift to give back to God, it was a payment that needed to be given to stay "holy".

In my mind, and in the circle of Christian people I am with, everyone has a very real and very straight forward choice. And I personally know families with a son that didn't want to be a Christian, and left. That was his choice, he wasn't forced. Just so that some people understand it's not a cult.

Just as some Police officers have a bad name because of one bad cop, Christians have bad names because of an amplified extreme group of "Christians" who do not follow what we believe.
Very true for many religions and groups.
 

Facime

Leather work expert
Jun 1, 2006
2,716
0
0
60
Corvallis OR
cadman said:
I absolutly meant it as a polite request for information, and in no way wanted to force or push my views on you. I also believe that the more information I have in this area, the better I can understand people, and answer their questions about my religion.

Thank you for your reply, and I as well appriciate the way you worded it. Not as a defence, but as a relay of information.

Now, if you wanted to compare our beliefs, or talk about them in a friendly matter, that's another story, and I enjoy doing that. However, I believe you don't do that publicly, because one might feel threatened.

I entered this thread with one intent only. That was to show that there are other people with spirituallty who still have the ability to think clearly and logically about the world around them. One does not have to be on either side of the fence when it comes to Evolution vs Creationism.

I also dont really have a problem with "christians" what I have a problem with is "christianity". As soon as someone or some group starts dictating what is right and wrong, good and bad, acceptable or not...then it becomes fallible. I said it once before, I'll say it again...if being a christian honestly makes you a better person...I say GREAT! I believe my belief system made me a better person, I just dont happen to agree with you..lets just leave it at that.

Im going to end my discussion in this topic with one last comment then I promise Im leaving it alone. My father is perhaps one of the most devout christians you will ever meet. He has given his tithe to the Catholic church for 60+ years. He goes to mass 3 days a week (used to be 7 when he was able to get around better) he conducts prayer services, and leads a weekly Adoration. He and my mother say the roseary every night. He is a good, honest, decent, god fearing man (no, we dont exactly see eye to eye..but he is my father...nuf said). He is also a multiple PhD scientist, with his degrees in chemistry, mathematics and physics and has taught at the university level for 30+years. He has been published too many times to count, and continues to work today even in his mid 70's. His latest work (he beleives to be his greatest ever) is in the area of matter, gravity, and the conception of solids (nothing is actually solid...except perhaps the tiniest of sub atomic particles. the rest is actually energy fields). He has no problem with evolution. As a scientist he MUST accept the scientific principles. His way of looking at it is that life is a wonderful mystery, and he thanks God for allowing him to understand one tiny miniscule part of it.

PS. thanks for both the positive and negative rep I have recieved as a result of this thread. Dont forget to read my post on tolerance before you judge me.
 
Jun 6, 2006
2,488
12
38
42
Amerika
www.dreamertheresa.com
Kai said:
God DOES NOT and NEVER HAS existed - it's nothing more than a primitive belief structure put in place by people who fail to understand the basic fundamentals of life.


God DOES matter to those who believe in Him/Her/It.





Theresa: :: shows AngryParvin picture of severely deformed baby::
AngryParvin: How can you tell me there's a God? No "God" would let this happen to someone.
Theresa: :: shrugs :: He's only one person. There's GOT to be some quality-control issues. :p





I'm spiritual, not religious. I believe in an afterlife, and some sort of "higher being." I'm also a firm believer in karma, evolution, and that TuPac was abducted by aliens. Or was that Elvis?
 

cadman

Computer Aided Drafting
Aug 10, 2006
87
0
0
Oregon
"How could God let _____ happen to _____." Fill in the blank.

Answer: You kicked him out. You don't want him around. All he did was do what you wanted him to.

Is there such a thing as dark? No, dark is just a word to discribe the lack of light.

Is there such a thing as cold? No, it is just a word to discribe the lack of heat.

Is there such a thing as pain and suffering? No, those are just words to discribe the lack of God.
 

SupraDerk

The Backseat Flyer
Sep 17, 2005
546
0
0
40
Tallahassee
suprahero said:
SupraDerk...I agree that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. I don't go to church except on special occasions, but my wife is there everytime they open the doors. I do know right from wrong, and I do pray everyday. Not to ask for anything, but to give thanks for what I already have...a beautiful family, good health, a roof over my head and two great running supras. I think the reason most christians try and preach to you, is because they get joy out of talking about God. My wife's eyes light up on Wednesday morning because she knows she's going to get to go to church that evening and talk about God.

It's like finding a new favorite flavor of icecream. You want to tell everyone, man you have got to try this. Well, they look at it the same way. They want you to try it because it makes THEM so happy. They want to share the happiness with you. My whole family begs me to come to church. My two little girls try and get me to go. I choose not to go, because I would rather play golf. I play on sunday mornings and Wednesday afternoons. If I didn't play golf then I would probably go to church. Not for me, but to please my wife, little girls, brother, sister and friends. They all know that I'm a good person, but they want me to attend church. I think that christians in general want everyone else to find what they've found in God and church.

Short version: I think they do it to help you and not piss you off. I know you know this, but you said that they force it down your throat or something to that affect. I'm not sticking up for them, because I think everyone deserves a right to make their own decissions. I would just never condem someone for trying to help me. Hope this long ass post makes sense................nothing but love and respect for all SM members regardless of sex, race or religion.

Yeah I get what you're saying. But this is the reality of that. If I were to (and I have once someone who is religious started forcing their belief on me) tell them that being an Atheist makes me happy and why don't you give up your God and believe what I believe... they'd get UBER offended and angry.

So why is it that I have to accept someone else pushing their belief on me just because it's said somewhere that it's their "job" to teach it? Don't I have the right to be offended too? Hehe, I hope none of that came off as bad or anything, it's just what I think everytime it happens to me
 

SupraDerk

The Backseat Flyer
Sep 17, 2005
546
0
0
40
Tallahassee
Also, I see and hear many Christians saying that the proof provided by scientists regarding evolution is false and that it doesn't prove that evolution exist. Regardless of whether it's right or wrong proof, it's proof.

I will not accept "I feel God's love so there's your proof" or "I experienced a miracle" as any kind of a valid means of proving if there is a God. Like so many religious people want cold hard facts, documentation and what have you regarding Evolution, I want the same from religion.


Haha, anyways, my original point. I seriously don't care and am not bothered by someone believing in God. That's good for them and they're excercising the free will that we seem to have as human (regardless of how we obtained it). But I use MY free will to believe in something different and I don't think that someone else has the right to tell me I'm wrong and then proceed to spoon feed me their beliefs
 

suprahero

naughty by nature
Staff member
Aug 26, 2005
14,971
0
36
54
Roll Tide
SupraDerk said:
Yeah I get what you're saying. But this is the reality of that. If I were to (and I have once someone who is religious started forcing their belief on me) tell them that being an Atheist makes me happy and why don't you give up your God and believe what I believe... they'd get UBER offended and angry.

So why is it that I have to accept someone else pushing their belief on me just because it's said somewhere that it's their "job" to teach it? Don't I have the right to be offended too? Hehe, I hope none of that came off as bad or anything, it's just what I think everytime it happens to me

I never said that you had to accept anything. No one can make you listen to them. I was simply trying to tell you why they do what they do. Good luck with your atheism if it makes you happy. You're still my supra brother............lol

I don't agree with everything that Weezl said, but I think it's crazy for him to receive negative rep for expressing his beliefs in an open debate. I may not give him positive rep if I don't agree with him, but I could never condemn him for having his own beliefs.......................:3d_frown:
 

cadman

Computer Aided Drafting
Aug 10, 2006
87
0
0
Oregon
SupraDerk said:
Also, I see and hear many Christians saying that the proof provided by scientists regarding evolution is false and that it doesn't prove that evolution exist. Regardless of whether it's right or wrong proof, it's proof. Proof is not proof if it is wrong. They found a pig's tooth and based an antire skull from it. After more investigation, they found that area to be a slautering house, but that was never reported... you can make anything sound like proof. I'm just saying this because it sounded like your explination of "proof" was a little off. No attack here, and no burn, just saying that proof is based on what you believe.

I will not accept "I feel God's love so there's your proof" or "I experienced a miracle" as any kind of a valid means of proving if there is a God. Like so many religious people want cold hard facts, documentation and what have you regarding Evolution, I want the same from religion. Then what would be proof to you? Like I said before, there's no way any of us can proove to you that God exists because you will not believe it, and hey, that's your choice!! I would be the last person to argue with you on that one. Just be sure you are honest with yourself on why you don't believe there is a God. It's because you don't want to believe there is a God. I'm going to use that old Wind analogy. You are in a house right now. Wind is blowing outside, and you might see a rustle of leaves every now and then. But you can't feel the wind because you aren't out in it. But you tell yourself, "There is no wind, try and prove there is wind!" And someone would be like "Hey did you see that leaf move? That was wind!" You say "I see nothing! That leaf moved because of an ant". You see? We can not prove God to you. And I personally will not shove it down your throat, there is no use.


Haha, anyways, my original point. I seriously don't care and am not bothered by someone believing in God. That's good for them and they're excercising the free will that we seem to have as human (regardless of how we obtained it). But I use MY free will to believe in something different and I don't think that someone else has the right to tell me I'm wrong and then proceed to spoon feed me their beliefs I couldn't agree with you more, you are right on. And you know what, no one should try and impose their will on you. The only thing we should be doing is "shining" and hope other's see it and say "Wow, there's something different about them... I wonder what it is...?"