loki2043 said:
torque plate is that
a plate used to apply torque to the engine block (like if the head where really on the block) to get the cylinder as true as a machine can.
Quote i got from machinist
- Thread starter loki2043
- Start date
torque plate is that
a plate used to apply torque to the engine block (like if the head where really on the block) to get the cylinder as true as a machine can.
JustAnotherVictim
Supramania Contributor
You certainly act like your ASE cert has ramification's every time you say anything.p5150 said:
Rod knock is due to user error. Period.
Granted the damage may have been done before you got the engine but it doesn't change the facts. Giving you the benefit of the doubt there, doesn't change the fact that a 7m doesn't just decide to get rod knock.
The problem I have with you is telling someone that an engine is a complete waste of time just because their are certain improved aspects on another engine is stupid.
If you want to go 2j that's fine. Just don't bash something because you couldn't get it to work for you.
JustAnotherVictim said:
The 7M IS a waste of time unless you really like the nostalgia. I like power and reliablility.
It didnt used to be, but the 2jzge's have become cheaper and easier to modify. For half the price of a built 7M you can have a more capable engine that is already assembled and is, dollar for dollar, more capable.
There are plenty of quality products available for this engine. Ill see you at the dyno/track with my STOCK COMPONENT 2JZ that I bought for 700 bucks SHIPPED TO MY DOOR:biglaugh:
figgie said:torque plate is that
a plate used to apply torque to the engine block (like if the head where really on the block) to get the cylinder as true as a machine can.
ahh i see.. so why is it that there are only 2 in the US? they look easy to replicate? no? im lost..:runaway:
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Well, there is at least one here in Boise 
Made a huge difference too. We measured the bores before and after and with the plate in place, they changed about 3 thousands. (That is quite a bit.)
I never had my block line honed, and I'm using ARP studs. IMNSHO, the main caps are all retained by the block on both sides, and you can pull the bolts completely out, and not have the main caps budge at all. You have to tap them loose actually since they retained by the grove cut into the block...
Not a bad idea, but you do have to run oversized bearings when your block has been line honed. (Again, better safe I suppose than sorry, but if the engine did not spin a bearing prior, and your bearings all look good when you tore it down, I would not line hone just because you upgrade your main bolts.) Also the stock main bolts are very stout, and should be good into the 600crank hp level or more easy. (Never actually heard of a 7M failing there.)
Rod bolt upgrades are an excellent idea. Resize the rods as they do go out of round with use. Larger bearings will be needed after they are re-sized to maintain the right journal clearance. (The pin side is generally OK, just have it checked to make sure it is round, not oval.) You can have new bushings pressed in, but I would reccomend Toyota bushings if you go that route, then they hone the bushings to the right clearance for your pins.
Smooth machine work on the deck and head for the MHG.
If your going to re-use your stock pistons, new rings of course. I would have them coat your pistons only after the bores are cleaned up. (Why waste money on pistons you might not be able to use?) If you have to replace your pistons, go forged as they are not that much more money, yet will hold up to more abuse than the stockers, and I'd have them coated either way. (The thermal barrier coating will save your butt if you run lean or detonate under boost.) The skirt coatings are a good idea too.
Make sure they remove the plugs from your crank and clean it up. (There was more crap hiding in those oil holes than you can belive, and at any time, it would end up in your bearings.) Don't worry about cam journal wear. If you want, send out the caps and have the journals coated with a molydisulfied. It will make them better in the long run, and the caps really take the load from the cams anyway.
Depending on your budget, I'd modify your block so the oil comes out the NA cooler port, and returns at the main oil galley inlet. (Many threads on here with how to do that.) It does take a tap welded onto an extension, but that's about it. Shim your oil pump and ditch the stock cooler/filter setup and go remote filter from Canton/Mecca and remote cooler/thermostat too. (Oil issue with the 7M is now resolved for 99% of the problems.)
I do not think your prices as quoted are too high.
On the issue of the 7M v/s 2JZGE, it's a matter of preference engine wise, and there are way more high performance parts for the 2JZ engine than 7M. They have proven to be very reliable, and make serious power. If your going to build a motor, either one can be done to make insane power. The 2JZ is just going to get you there faster for less money than the 7M, but neither is going to be the "owner" of the other depending on mods.
Looking back on it all, having a very highly built up, stroked 7MGTE was quite an adventure. If I had it all to do again, it would be tempting to buy a used JZ motor, take it apart, coat some parts and go that route. However, if I was going to buy a new bellhousing, why not get one that will mate the R154 to a GM/Holden V8 and really screw around with making more power? (7L motor is an easy swap away, and there are "painless" wire kits, ECU's and many more upgrades out there for the V8 engines... all of which will make more power than either the 2JZ or 7M motors modification to modification. For example, a 7L LS3 with twin turbo's, standalone computer and other supporting mods would be an easy 1200rwhp setup on pump gas. And make like 900lbs or more of tourqe... )
That engine combo in the MK3 chassis would be a dang fun car indeed. (end of arguement guys, the larger displacement motors win mod for mod, and domestic stuff is cheaper by far.)
Enjoy your MK3 with the 7M, JZ or whatever power plant you decide to run!
Made a huge difference too. We measured the bores before and after and with the plate in place, they changed about 3 thousands. (That is quite a bit.)
I never had my block line honed, and I'm using ARP studs. IMNSHO, the main caps are all retained by the block on both sides, and you can pull the bolts completely out, and not have the main caps budge at all. You have to tap them loose actually since they retained by the grove cut into the block...
Not a bad idea, but you do have to run oversized bearings when your block has been line honed. (Again, better safe I suppose than sorry, but if the engine did not spin a bearing prior, and your bearings all look good when you tore it down, I would not line hone just because you upgrade your main bolts.) Also the stock main bolts are very stout, and should be good into the 600crank hp level or more easy. (Never actually heard of a 7M failing there.)
Rod bolt upgrades are an excellent idea. Resize the rods as they do go out of round with use. Larger bearings will be needed after they are re-sized to maintain the right journal clearance. (The pin side is generally OK, just have it checked to make sure it is round, not oval.) You can have new bushings pressed in, but I would reccomend Toyota bushings if you go that route, then they hone the bushings to the right clearance for your pins.
Smooth machine work on the deck and head for the MHG.
If your going to re-use your stock pistons, new rings of course. I would have them coat your pistons only after the bores are cleaned up. (Why waste money on pistons you might not be able to use?) If you have to replace your pistons, go forged as they are not that much more money, yet will hold up to more abuse than the stockers, and I'd have them coated either way. (The thermal barrier coating will save your butt if you run lean or detonate under boost.) The skirt coatings are a good idea too.
Make sure they remove the plugs from your crank and clean it up. (There was more crap hiding in those oil holes than you can belive, and at any time, it would end up in your bearings.) Don't worry about cam journal wear. If you want, send out the caps and have the journals coated with a molydisulfied. It will make them better in the long run, and the caps really take the load from the cams anyway.
Depending on your budget, I'd modify your block so the oil comes out the NA cooler port, and returns at the main oil galley inlet. (Many threads on here with how to do that.) It does take a tap welded onto an extension, but that's about it. Shim your oil pump and ditch the stock cooler/filter setup and go remote filter from Canton/Mecca and remote cooler/thermostat too. (Oil issue with the 7M is now resolved for 99% of the problems.)
I do not think your prices as quoted are too high.
On the issue of the 7M v/s 2JZGE, it's a matter of preference engine wise, and there are way more high performance parts for the 2JZ engine than 7M. They have proven to be very reliable, and make serious power. If your going to build a motor, either one can be done to make insane power. The 2JZ is just going to get you there faster for less money than the 7M, but neither is going to be the "owner" of the other depending on mods.
Looking back on it all, having a very highly built up, stroked 7MGTE was quite an adventure. If I had it all to do again, it would be tempting to buy a used JZ motor, take it apart, coat some parts and go that route. However, if I was going to buy a new bellhousing, why not get one that will mate the R154 to a GM/Holden V8 and really screw around with making more power? (7L motor is an easy swap away, and there are "painless" wire kits, ECU's and many more upgrades out there for the V8 engines... all of which will make more power than either the 2JZ or 7M motors modification to modification. For example, a 7L LS3 with twin turbo's, standalone computer and other supporting mods would be an easy 1200rwhp setup on pump gas. And make like 900lbs or more of tourqe... )
That engine combo in the MK3 chassis would be a dang fun car indeed. (end of arguement guys, the larger displacement motors win mod for mod, and domestic stuff is cheaper by far.)
Enjoy your MK3 with the 7M, JZ or whatever power plant you decide to run!
The ARP main studs have a higher torque rating then stock, which is why the line hone is recommended, not because they fit tight in the caps. :icon_wink
You could get away without it on the mains, but not for rods.
You could get away without it on the mains, but not for rods.
:thumbup:Adjuster said:
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seams to me your looking to get cheap reliable power. i saw someone on the forum with the sig. to answer it said "you can only choose two cheap, reliable, powerful." and yes that for only the head and block but you said its cheaper to put your kit together then to just build the 7m. you'll be $3k in by the time your done.p5150 said:
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P5150, Figgie,
STOP RUINING THIS THREAD!!
your bullshit ranting can go to a PM!
ANY ways, Loki. What shop did you end up talking too? This is a reasonable price, as I paid 1600 for almost the same thing + pistons and rings and assembled into a short block from Dan Hall in P town.
STOP RUINING THIS THREAD!!
your bullshit ranting can go to a PM!
ANY ways, Loki. What shop did you end up talking too? This is a reasonable price, as I paid 1600 for almost the same thing + pistons and rings and assembled into a short block from Dan Hall in P town.
Actually Aaron, and correct me if im wrong adjuster, I think he was talking about the fact that the caps are held on either side by the block so when you do torque down on the arp's, the caps wont open up and go out of round. The caps are such a tight fit into the block, that the block supports them from bulging outwards from the higher torque rating. I actually thought the same thing. I was tempted to go ahead and use arp's for the mains and not get it honed. I can definitely see where it would be an issue with the rods since the is nothing against the sides of the caps for support. And adjuster, you dont have to use oversize bearings, cause I think alot of machinist, like mine, actually cut the caps down and then honed the hole so ended up being factory size. So I used std bearings. I thought this was common practice but maybe not.bigaaron said:
well, you wont be disappointed. Don't cut short when it comes to things, have every thing checked and double checked. My car runs great with around 5,000 miles on it. I'm not sure if my bro has given you a ride in it yet.
yeah he let me drive it (oops sorry if i wasnt sapposed to tell!!) its pretty damn nice. the only problem im having now is they dont take visa and im broke as shit cuz i totaled my moms van yesterday
p5150 said:
That is a pretty ignorant comment. Just because you don't know of a reilaiable 7M/7M's doesn't mean they do not exsist. I keep repeating myself needlessly. :nono: You watch too many Fast&Furious movies. I guess it kinda makes sense for you, since they show the GE in the movie.
If you are going with the 2J (no shit), the GE is waste of time IMO but that is another story.
Duane
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dont get me wrong but i think the reason is by the time your done getting it in and buy turbo parts for it you might as well have gone gte and have the most potentalp5150 said:
Just offhand... let's say you buy your magical 2JZ-GE for $400.
Don't bother doing what anyone with half a brain would do - crack that bitch open and replace *MINIMUM* mains/rods/rings/seals (not to mention measure out all specs)
I've got an '88 Supra.
Does that 2JZ-GE bolt up to the '88 mounts?
How am I mounting my CT26 to the 2JZ?
Turbo oiling and coolant?
What about my exhaust?
How am I controlling the 2JZ ECM wise?
Since I'm turboing a 2JZ, and it has a FFIM, how much is an intercooler?
Intercooler pipes?
Will my stock fuel lines bolt right up?
Throttle cable?
Let me put it this way - if it were that easy for the AVERAGE JOE, we'd be seeing a hell of a lot more JZ MKIIIs.
For the price of "properly" dropping a 2JZ into my MKIII, I'd have a... well, I'd damn near have Duane's 7M
BTW -
$1000 in machine work
$350 for forged pistons (Probe)
$100 for rings
$120 for MHG
$100 for ARP head studs
$100 for Clevite 77 Mains/Rods
About $2k for a bulletproof 7M? What am I missing here?
p5150, you really might want to think about chilling out here. Preaching a JZ series outside of the 'Other Engine Tech' is gonna get shot down quickly. I'm with Adjuster - if I'm going through an engine swap, I'm going LSx, no doubt.
Don't bother doing what anyone with half a brain would do - crack that bitch open and replace *MINIMUM* mains/rods/rings/seals (not to mention measure out all specs)
I've got an '88 Supra.
Does that 2JZ-GE bolt up to the '88 mounts?
How am I mounting my CT26 to the 2JZ?
Turbo oiling and coolant?
What about my exhaust?
How am I controlling the 2JZ ECM wise?
Since I'm turboing a 2JZ, and it has a FFIM, how much is an intercooler?
Intercooler pipes?
Will my stock fuel lines bolt right up?
Throttle cable?
Let me put it this way - if it were that easy for the AVERAGE JOE, we'd be seeing a hell of a lot more JZ MKIIIs.
For the price of "properly" dropping a 2JZ into my MKIII, I'd have a... well, I'd damn near have Duane's 7M
BTW -
$1000 in machine work
$350 for forged pistons (Probe)
$100 for rings
$120 for MHG
$100 for ARP head studs
$100 for Clevite 77 Mains/Rods
About $2k for a bulletproof 7M? What am I missing here?
p5150, you really might want to think about chilling out here. Preaching a JZ series outside of the 'Other Engine Tech' is gonna get shot down quickly. I'm with Adjuster - if I'm going through an engine swap, I'm going LSx, no doubt.
Doward said:
not that i think hes right. you put a great post but the 2jzge has a side facing intake like the 7m
Ok, so you can reuse the stocker IC (which if that's the case, you aren't going for big power outside the 'realm' of the 7M, are you?)
The rest still holds, though
The rest still holds, though
This thread got really pathetic. Don't get me wrong, i read it all, and i was entertained by it all. Especially the humor of the know it all jz preacher. BUT, I think the point of the thread was for the thread starter to get some solid advice and find out if he was seeing an accurate and reasonable price for his work. Let's do for this guy what he would do for us had one of us started the thread. Help him. I did see some good solid technical advice and feedback, lets leave it at that stuff.
I say good for you for going the route of a solid rebuild. I will be looking to go this route soon with empera so we can start a joint project car. Thank you for bringing this up, i got alot of good information about what i will be looking at in the near future. Keep us updated on what happens with all this, im interested in the follow up.
I say good for you for going the route of a solid rebuild. I will be looking to go this route soon with empera so we can start a joint project car. Thank you for bringing this up, i got alot of good information about what i will be looking at in the near future. Keep us updated on what happens with all this, im interested in the follow up.