Jaguar_5's 87 Turbo Build
- Thread starter Jaguar_5
- Start date
New parts!!
Recieved my ARP Headstuds, and cooleeze 3" pipes. I got the pipes off ebay, he said they were new, so it looks like theres a bit of damage from shipping, the genius just zip-tied them together, wrapped some tape around both ends, and stuck on the shipping label. Purely cosmetic though, but i might have to clean up the mating surface in one spot.
My cometic MHG is done being made, .71" and 84mm bore, so i should recieve that very soon, as well as my toyota order and magnaflow 3" in, dual 2.5" out muffler, which are all in the hands of UPS right now
My BIC DDP, with an extra o2 bung for later, is still being made, so i'm hoping for that + the test pipe, within the next 2 weeks! (crosses fingers)
Recieved my ARP Headstuds, and cooleeze 3" pipes. I got the pipes off ebay, he said they were new, so it looks like theres a bit of damage from shipping, the genius just zip-tied them together, wrapped some tape around both ends, and stuck on the shipping label. Purely cosmetic though, but i might have to clean up the mating surface in one spot.
My cometic MHG is done being made, .71" and 84mm bore, so i should recieve that very soon, as well as my toyota order and magnaflow 3" in, dual 2.5" out muffler, which are all in the hands of UPS right now
My BIC DDP, with an extra o2 bung for later, is still being made, so i'm hoping for that + the test pipe, within the next 2 weeks! (crosses fingers)
Like i didnt see that coming =P
I don't have internet at home right now, i just moved into a new house, so i only have internet access at my parents house, however this is where the engine is being built now, so once I get more parts in the mail, i'll try and remember to bring over my digicam, or I could borrow my moms...
Anyways, pics soon! I'll do my best
I don't have internet at home right now, i just moved into a new house, so i only have internet access at my parents house, however this is where the engine is being built now, so once I get more parts in the mail, i'll try and remember to bring over my digicam, or I could borrow my moms...
Anyways, pics soon! I'll do my best
Calling IJ, assistance needed!
First for a parts report, cometic mhg arrived today
Anyways, like i said earlier, my machinist measured all the clearances, everything seems OK, if anything its a bit on the loose side but still comfortably within spec, I torqued up (in sequence) all my main studs to 85 ft/lbs w/ 30W oil ontop of some arp moly lube left over from my machinist (i will use only ARP moly for final installation, ARP recommends 80ft/lbs for moly, 120 ft/lbs with 30W...
The issue is, with plenty of oil on both sides of all bearings, i cannot turn the crank at all, shouldn't it turn freely? I also am unable to move the crank back & forth to measure thrust clearance. I am not too happy with this, i'm going to go and try again with 75 ft/lbs (TSRM spec)
Oh, and one other thing, theres a 'ring' of something blocking the freeze plug on the front of the block (behind the front plate) from going all the way in... doesn't seem like its supposed to be there, is it safe to just go at it with a grinder?
First for a parts report, cometic mhg arrived today
Anyways, like i said earlier, my machinist measured all the clearances, everything seems OK, if anything its a bit on the loose side but still comfortably within spec, I torqued up (in sequence) all my main studs to 85 ft/lbs w/ 30W oil ontop of some arp moly lube left over from my machinist (i will use only ARP moly for final installation, ARP recommends 80ft/lbs for moly, 120 ft/lbs with 30W...
The issue is, with plenty of oil on both sides of all bearings, i cannot turn the crank at all, shouldn't it turn freely? I also am unable to move the crank back & forth to measure thrust clearance. I am not too happy with this, i'm going to go and try again with 75 ft/lbs (TSRM spec)
Oh, and one other thing, theres a 'ring' of something blocking the freeze plug on the front of the block (behind the front plate) from going all the way in... doesn't seem like its supposed to be there, is it safe to just go at it with a grinder?
Jag: You need to pull the caps and measure the clearance with some plastigauge to tripple check!
It should turn freely!
The Front Welsh Plug isn't a cup plug like the sides it's more a convex disc!
(Clean out ya PM's Jag)
It should turn freely!
The Front Welsh Plug isn't a cup plug like the sides it's more a convex disc!
(Clean out ya PM's Jag)
PM's cleaned up
I did plastigauge them, and it appeared to be OK, however, i'm not sure if I was reading it correctly, there was a dark strip in the center, and a faint outline around it, kinda like a radial smudge. Also, when checking, do you have all the caps torqued up, and just remove 1, and re-torque it? Or one at a time?
I don't understand how my machinist measured the crank, and the mains torqued up with bearings in place, and now even when i tap the caps back into place, the crank appears stuck!
I did plastigauge them, and it appeared to be OK, however, i'm not sure if I was reading it correctly, there was a dark strip in the center, and a faint outline around it, kinda like a radial smudge. Also, when checking, do you have all the caps torqued up, and just remove 1, and re-torque it? Or one at a time?
I don't understand how my machinist measured the crank, and the mains torqued up with bearings in place, and now even when i tap the caps back into place, the crank appears stuck!
Jag: The "radial smudge" sounds like 0.00" clearance
The machinst "should" have torqued the caps and bearings in place then used a snap gauge and a Micrometer to measure the Snap gauge then Mic the Crank and subtract that from the Bearing ID, what's left is the clearance.
The machinst "should" have torqued the caps and bearings in place then used a snap gauge and a Micrometer to measure the Snap gauge then Mic the Crank and subtract that from the Bearing ID, what's left is the clearance.
Thats exactly what i feared most
I torqued the caps myself with the bearings in place before i brought it to him, i don't know if it was a snap gauge, not sure what it was but he took back the crank, mic'd it, said he zeroed the tool, and then measured up each bearing, they were between .0016 to .0019
I'm so confused! I'm gonna plasti gauge again...
I torqued the caps myself with the bearings in place before i brought it to him, i don't know if it was a snap gauge, not sure what it was but he took back the crank, mic'd it, said he zeroed the tool, and then measured up each bearing, they were between .0016 to .0019
I'm so confused! I'm gonna plasti gauge again...
And of course my nightmare is confirmed. The block is back at the machine shop for the 3rd time
Here is the dilemma, He's telling me again i need to order standard size bearings, even though with my calculations last time, if i remember correctly Mark5 bearings put me right outside the comfort zone, then again, it's just theoretical math.
Right now i have a set of new, but un-returnable .25 o/s bearings, so do i eat the cost and order a new set, and hope for the best?
Or do i eat the cost of having him grind my crank, and risk
being able to reuse the crank in the future?
And on a positive note, i just recieved confirmation that my Bic DDP is done, and in transit! Probably the single most exciting upgrade (other than the MHG + prep that goes with it) for this build! By the time i go to a shop to weld on my muffler, and some hangers for it, this'll be the thousand dollar turboback!
Here is the dilemma, He's telling me again i need to order standard size bearings, even though with my calculations last time, if i remember correctly Mark5 bearings put me right outside the comfort zone, then again, it's just theoretical math.
Right now i have a set of new, but un-returnable .25 o/s bearings, so do i eat the cost and order a new set, and hope for the best?
Or do i eat the cost of having him grind my crank, and risk
being able to reuse the crank in the future?
And on a positive note, i just recieved confirmation that my Bic DDP is done, and in transit! Probably the single most exciting upgrade (other than the MHG + prep that goes with it) for this build! By the time i go to a shop to weld on my muffler, and some hangers for it, this'll be the thousand dollar turboback!
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Jag: .25mm undersize?
If so I'd hande the block Bearings and Crank to another shop and have them grind the Crank to suit the Toyota Specs if you're not confident enough in the current shop to get it right!
This after Block and Head surface prep are probably the most vital to get right in a 7M build as it will influence the Motor's "character".
If so I'd hande the block Bearings and Crank to another shop and have them grind the Crank to suit the Toyota Specs if you're not confident enough in the current shop to get it right!
This after Block and Head surface prep are probably the most vital to get right in a 7M build as it will influence the Motor's "character".
Ok, thanks for the input.
I trust the machinists work, the actual machined surfaces look fantastic, and all the journals are the exact same diameter, so very consistant results.
I however will never drop a block off at a machinist without a detailed step-by-step guide of what i want done!
I trust the machinists work, the actual machined surfaces look fantastic, and all the journals are the exact same diameter, so very consistant results.
I however will never drop a block off at a machinist without a detailed step-by-step guide of what i want done!
Jag: Yep it's a bit of a mine field for the Novice!
(A good shop won't assume you know what you want and will listen then make suggestions to a "plan")
(A good shop won't assume you know what you want and will listen then make suggestions to a "plan")
And the fun continues
After all the moving, i'm struggling to find my oilpump driveshaft, fantastic!
And the machine shop fun continues, he brought up that if i torqued down the bearings with 0 clearance, i'd have flat spots and they're pretty much toast... It makes sense to me, but what do I know?
I asked about regrinding the crank, he said 'now why would you want to do that?' But quoted 125. He said 99% of the time, if i just order standard clevite bearings (std. acl's were in there previously) everything will be good.
So the question arises again!! I'm honestly swaying towards having him order the clevites if i'm going to have to get new toyota bearings AND a regrind!
After all the moving, i'm struggling to find my oilpump driveshaft, fantastic!
And the machine shop fun continues, he brought up that if i torqued down the bearings with 0 clearance, i'd have flat spots and they're pretty much toast... It makes sense to me, but what do I know?
I asked about regrinding the crank, he said 'now why would you want to do that?' But quoted 125. He said 99% of the time, if i just order standard clevite bearings (std. acl's were in there previously) everything will be good.
So the question arises again!! I'm honestly swaying towards having him order the clevites if i'm going to have to get new toyota bearings AND a regrind!
I'm a little confused here Jag!
Without me going back through the thread tell me what you have?
ie: Std crank?
You say it had ACL's in it what size?
Which Toyota bearings do you have now?
To me the logical thing would have been to get the same ACL's as they're a honed bearing so don't vary in size compared to Clevites which are broached and can be a few tenths off either way.
Without me going back through the thread tell me what you have?
ie: Std crank?
You say it had ACL's in it what size?
Which Toyota bearings do you have now?
To me the logical thing would have been to get the same ACL's as they're a honed bearing so don't vary in size compared to Clevites which are broached and can be a few tenths off either way.
Standard crank, i mic'ed it to 2.3620", i think my machinist measured 2.3627
main caps torqued to 80, measured by a different machine shop: 2.2518
Old acl's, said standard, measure at .085" (after they were taken out)
In there right now are .25 o/s bearings (is it true what he said about the bearings being toast now?) They're definitely way too big
main caps torqued to 80, measured by a different machine shop: 2.2518
Old acl's, said standard, measure at .085" (after they were taken out)
In there right now are .25 o/s bearings (is it true what he said about the bearings being toast now?) They're definitely way too big