Got my built 7m running last night!! couple questions. Vid. on post 66

[jetjock]

Now we're getting somewhere. At least the readings make sense. They sure didn't before.

Checking the TPS off the TB is mostly useless. All that does is prove it's not open circuited. The high will be higher than when on the TB and the low will be lower. This is because the TB limits TPS movement. It's also why you can't use a TPS off the TB when trying to troubleshoot code 41: when a TPS is on it's internal stop the voltage will usually be below 100 mv. This is true even with new ones. I've seen more than one TPS condemned by people who just plugged it in and wondered why they still had a 41. The point is putting it on the TB and setting it up moves the wiper off the internal stop and out of the 41 error range. One still has to contend with the idle contact when doing this and that's what gives many people grief.

Your Vcc of 4.97 is fine and having the AFM plugged in proves the AFM isn't pulling it down. The lower VTA value of 386 mv with the TPS adjusted is good. Note it's close to the 300 mv I said it should be. The one thing I don't see is what VTA is with the TPS on the TB and held wide open using the throttle linkage. Should be around 3.5. Also, is IDL now battery voltage with the throttle cracked and close to zero with the throttle closed? Lastly, have you fixed the MIL or are you still using the meter to check codes?

Ian: I think everyone here would agree you help out plenty

 

[IJ.]

Gary: Never owned a GTE or used a stock ECU so ALL of this is new to me so when someone asks I usually handball it to someone that knows
(guess who)

I'm not beyond learning new things though so just follow along quietly in the back of the class.

 

[jdub]

<--- Sitting next to Ian in back of class. Learned a couple things today JJ

 

[jetjock]

It's all about understanding how things work on the root level and where Toyota was trying to get to when they wrote a procedure. Once that understanding is gained you can get to the same place using several paths. For example I never follow the TSRM for setting up the TPS. All that feeler gauge crap is way too much work. And don't ask....even though it's quicker writing it all out would be a lot more

 

[92nsx]

I do have a new/different cluster I picked up from emiliorescigno out of a 89 turbo . And for the record a 90+ gauge cluster cannot be used in a 89. The PCF is different. I have not installed it yet, so codes are/were from using my meter. I was planning on waiting to find a volt gauge to replace the OEM boost gauge before I installed it. But I will also install the MIL tonight so checking codes can be done easer.

Next/tonight: I will get a VTA reading with the TPS on the TB and throttle help open via the throttle cable. I will also get the IDL reading with TB closed and slightly cracked.

 

[92nsx]

VTA with TPS on TB, and throttle wide open via gas pedel the reading is 4.38 v. IDL is 4.69 with throttle slightly cracked, then back to 0 when closed.

Anything else? Is the VTA high? Is IDL right?

EDIT: I also got the cluster installed and the MIL light only comes on once the throttle is opened. When Idleing (jumping from 1000-2000 RPM's) the light dose not come on, but once the throttle is opened there is shining bright like the moon at night .

Also here Is a vid. ***This was for testing to see what would happen*** I removed the coupler from IC to TB. Well It idled, I could feel the air being sucked right through the throttle plate on the TB on the right side. Also at the end you can see once the throttle is opened is then the MIL light comes on Maybe this will spark some ideas.

 

[jetjock]

Sigh. Post up the codes currently set then clear memory and start over with the engine put together.

 

[92nsx]

Code 41 is still there. Everything is/was connected (ic coupler to TB) and re-set battery. I only removed the IC piping after the fact to see what would happen. But since the MIL came on at the same time with and without the coupler on, I posted the video to maybe spark some more Ideas why it is coming on once the throttle is opened.

I didnt mean to add any more confusion with the video. Again I just wanted to see what would happen and posted it since the engine did idle with out the 1000 rpm jump. This is why I posted it with ***This was for testing to see what would happen***.

So inclusion code 41 is current with IC coupler on and have a 1000 rpm jump. To see what would happen I removed the coupler(no metered air) to see and the idle was some what normal.

 

[92nsx]

***To recap*** all readings from TCCS with TB connected and TPS adjusted properly with all IC piping connected and tight.
The idle is jumping from 1000 to 2000 RPM's when at idle.
Currently getting code 41 (tps error) Battery has been reset and same code is still there. The code 41 only appears once the throttle is opened. No code when first started up and idleing, but shows up once throttle is opened.
VTA with throttle closed 386 mv
VTA at WOT 4.38 v.
The transition from 386mv to 4.38 is smooth accrost the opening. No breaks were recorded.
IDL is 0 when throttle is closed.
IDL is 4.69 with throttle slightly cracked.
VCC reading is the same with and without AFM connected 4.97 volts

 

[jetjock]

Clear memory, set the TPS (or a spare) when off the TB so VTA is 2 volts measured at the ECU, and try again.

 

[92nsx]

Clear memory, set the TPS (or a spare) when off the TB so VTA is 2 volts measured at the ECU, and try again.

Ok where is a vid. of first setting VTA to 1.999 volts using a spair TPS and using a vis-grip to clamp/hold the TPS open. Then resetting TCCS via removing ground from battery. (Was disconnected around 5 min.)


Next here is the vid. of start up with VTA still set to 1.999 volts. It started up fine, idled around 2500 rpms with no code present.


Thank you again JJ I am learning(slowley) but learning

 

[jetjock]

No code now huh? I suspected as much. The high idle is expected because of the increased VTA with the throttle plate closed. The ECU was enriching the mixture to about 2% CO. This (and no code 41) tells us the ECU is good and the signal is getting into the computer. I was thinking you might have a fractured VTA solder joint on the PCB pin and this was an easier way of testing it than having you pull the box out.

1) Remove the clamp and tell us what VTA is with the TPS on it's internal stop.

2) With it like that jumper T and E, start the engine, and read the MIL. Report what codes are present.

3) Stop the engine and clamp the TPS to around 500 mv (.5 volts)

4) Leaving the diag jumper in restart the engine and check the MIL.

4) Stop the engine and clamp VTA to 4 volts. Again, leave the diag jumper in.

5) Restart the engine (expect a high idle) and check the MIL again.

Btw has the throttle plate been adjusted so it's fully closed at idle?

 

[92nsx]

1) .001 v (spair TPS off TB on internal stop)

2) MIL .003 code 41 shows up

3) K, VTA set at 511 mv

4) code 42 & 51. Idle jumping from 1000 to 2000 rpms

4.1) TPS clamped, 4.04 volts,

5) Idle solid around 2800 rpms, code 51
Side note: fuel pressure reading is 40 psi, and vacuum is 19 inHg during #5.

throttle plate is fully closed as much as it can, TB hard stop.

If you want any vids let me know and I can shoot them quick.

 

[jetjock]

Code 42?

1) Again clamp the TPS at near 511 mv. Unplug it and measure the resistance between E2 and VTA on the TPS itself.

Are all these TPS used? What are the part numbers on them? On the ones installed and being used for these tests? What year ECU is being used? Is it the one that came with the car?

Reason I ask is I've reviewed the thread and saw mistakes regarding what TPS goes on what model year.

 

[92nsx]

blue label, TPS clamped at 516 mv, ohms are 694 from VTA-E2 on the tps.

TPS being used for these test is the OEM one that came with the car. PN# 89452-20050 blue label.

Year ECU should be 1989, The same ECU that came with the car. PN#89661-14240

I also have A TPS from a 88 turbo PN# 89452-14050, brown label, that fits the TB.

Side notes:
When I bought the car (9/2007) there was no codes.

VTA-E2 voltage reading with NO TPS pluged in is 1.732

Brown label TPS clamped at 496mv, ohms are 768 from VTA-E2

You tell me what TPS you want me to test with. Both seem to be good and both have vary close readings from previous tests. Only the brown label fits the TB.

 

[92nsx]

From PM.
**I did re-set the TCCS**

With TPS clamped at 516mv I jumpered from IDL-E2 with engine running and no codes showed up. MIL just stayed at the fast blink.

Idle (still) jumping from 1100 to 2000 rpms during this test.

Next I opened the throttle a little (with TPS still clamped at 516mv and off TB) then code 52 came up, YEP 52

 

[jetjock]

Ha. Unjump IDL and E2 and see if the 41 comes back while still clamped at 500 mv

edit: Forget the brown TPS. For now stick with the one that came with the car even if it doesn't fit the TB...

 

[92nsx]

Yes, 41 comes back with jumper removed and clamped at 497mv.

EDIT: Did not reset tccs for this test

Do you want me to reset tccs Before and after every test?

 

[IJ.]

Would make sense to clear codes each time.

 

[jetjock]

^ Yes, it would, at least when dealing with other than a 51.

I dunno guy. It's odd the ECU is happy with 2 volts but not with 500 mv, which is within range. Might want to try the same tests with the 14050 or spring for a new 14240. Could also put a 10K pot on the ECU connector with the TPS unplugged and see what range the ECU is happy with. Not sure what that'd get you other than proving the ECU is funky.

It's hard to shoot this from afar. If I was there I'd scope VTA and try some other things but I'm not. Might want to spring for a new TPS although frankly I can't see why that one doesn't work. Bottom line is the code should not be set with 500 mv going into the ECU. Makes me wonder if yours is damaged.