7M Block is better than 2JZ Block

[p5150]

I installed a new oil pump and kept all my clearances at .0015 on the rods and mains. I made sure every oil passage was open and everything was cleaned to within an inch of it's life. As Figgie stated above you can never pay to close attention to specs and detail. At 600 rpm warm it help 10 to 12 psi I now keep the idle at 900 rpm as I get a more consistant voltage reading from the alternator and my oil psi stays at 17 to 20 psi warm. I also run 20W50 Castrol GTX engine oil.

All of this was done on a VPC, S-AFC, ITC and 680 inj. combo and an SP67 turbo with a .68 and .81 a/r on a p trim and an HKS cast long runner manifold. I have now gone to an AEM with 1000 cc inj. and a GT4202 turbo with an S trim and a 1.01 a/r.

The engine is still stock inside and we shall see what it will take on the dyno. Externally it has a FFI intake, Q45 throttle body, stainless header, 3 inch aluminum IC piping from turbo to IC and 3.5 inch steel IC piping from IC tp throttle body, and a 4 inch exhaust system. I built all of it except the throttle body in my shop at my house so we'll see how it goes.

Sean

Sean - Thanks for the informative reply and the detailed information about your consistant high-hp stock-block 7M. Honestly, this is the first time I have heard of a STOCK 7M taking that much abuse for so long, and I have been researching upgrades for my car for about 8 years. I guess I missed something somewhere. Ive read about stock 7Ms that have been dynoed at 700hp - One time. I never hear about the long term effects of it.

I guess you dont hear EVERY story about EVERY 7M in the country on internet forums or via Google, but I thought that by now there would have been quite a few, if not a couple of people posting about their high-hp 7M that they were running on stock internals.

I sincerely wish you well with some ultra-high hp levels on the 7M - perhaps it will be a decent alternative for those with higher hp goals that are currently persuing more expensive routes to accomplish their objective.:evil5:

 

[X-man]

Anytime. I also have one running around Bristol, Tn I built for a friend of mine that is at 450 rwhp/440 rwtq @ 16 and 510/470 rwtq @ 20 on about the same setup I had but with a stock intake manifold and a stock headgasket with the stock headbolts torqued down to 75 ft/lbs and has been doing so for almost 2 years now. This one has a PT67 with a p trim and a .68 a/r with 3 inch to 3.5 inch catback exhaust and 2.5 IC piping. This is also a VPC/S-AFC car with a single Wal-bro and an XS Power manifold.

Sean

 

[p5150]

Sounds pretty wicked - you must tune em right! Are you pretty conservative with the AFRs?

 

[Zazzn]

IMO the 7m IS MOST FUN with a SMALL turbo upgrade. IE upgraded ct26 or bolt on 61.

TQ is where it's at with the 7m, and when you push the spool up too far to the right of the dyno graph the car just isn't fun. Espeically since it's SUCH a hard task to get the car to rev.

(lack of upgraded stock ecus to let it rev)

Everyone has said it over and over doller for doller the 2jz will make more power.

I'm putting in a bone stock 2jz reving it to 8000, and going to make over 500 WHP on pump gas, which gives me a powerband form 4000-8000 with a 67DDB.

Fun fun fun!

I honestly must say the MOST fun i EVER had with my car was on the stock turbo. I made 400TQ at 3100 ON THE 7m with the stock CT. and had over 300TQ at 2500 RPM!

 

[MRSUPRA]

Great info X-Man... Are you using the ITC to change your timing under boost?

With the "luck" I have had with my 7M running 400+rwhp for so long now, I wouldn't even consider an engine swap.

 

[p5150]

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32197

Not so much "luck"

 

[TurboWarrior]

I thought the arguement is over whats your prob

 

[p5150]

I thought the arguement is over whats your prob

Not arguing - just posting some fact and real-world testimonials. If the link I posted showed another 7M running as well as X-Man's then you most certainly wouldnt have posted that.

 

[TurboWarrior]

yeah i know. and i don't hate jzs. They are godly motors. But both motors are different, 7m has more problems to iron out. I like zazzs post. I should be running like that this spring. The torque is its best feature

 

[Supracentral]

I'll also just point out in the 7Ms defence - how many 20 year old 2jzs are you finding?

It will be kind of difficult to find 20 year old examples of this motor until 2012...

Which will be the year the design turns 20 years old...

 

[p5150]

Doward you can work on my car anytime FTL

 

[supra90turbo]

Guys who have a 7M do not worry it is a good as a 2JZ.
I can proove my engine that till now with only 39 psi of boost I have 1340Hp I have another 10 psi more to give and then Nitrus.
I ran 7.44sec with my car and next year with the same boost hoping for a 7.1-7.2 run.Wit a bit more boost then we will run hi 6 sec run.The engine is reaible like the 2JZ AND WHAT THE 2jz monster engines will do I will do.
I have all the proves...THE 7M IS EQUAL POWER TO THE 2JZ
Buy the right parts and you have the right engine

Stated clearly.


but I must ask: Why such heinous 2JZ nutswinging? We all know it's a better engine by design and that is inherent due to evolution, however, I don't think that's the argument here.
I think the discussion at hand is geared towards the 7M's "inability" to make reliable 500+hp... which I think is untrue... for several reasons.
will you feel better if we all break down and cry in your arms that we've been lying to ourselves the whole time saying that the 7M was worth all the time, effort, and money? Don't hold your breath.

Why does it seem at times that the "JZ" swap community is like a born-again christian group?

 

[p5150]

Well, most of the "JZ" arguments that I have seen have been about the 1JZ - not turbocharging the 2JZGE. Classifying it all as a "JZ" argument isnt really fair....

I can see the argument about the 1J with less displacement vs. the 7M with more torque, but the whole point of this is highlighting the cost-effectiveness of a 2jzge swap. NOT a 2jzgTe swap. They are two very similar motors that cost completely different amounts of money.

And for the record, I have been to Japan a few times and I never see 7Ms in supras when I go there.... Everybody swaps in a 1J, well im sure not everybody, but the VAST majority of toyotas that I have seen every time im there (even pre 89 supras) have a 1J.

I asked one of the guys with a 1J what he thought about the 7M while I was there and he said: "Why would I want that in my car? This motor is so much better." Take it for what its worth... Just one mans opinion....

 

[Doward]

It will be kind of difficult to find 20 year old examples of this motor until 2012...

Which will be the year the design turns 20 years old...

You entirely missed the point there, big guy. The fact that the JZ series is newer attests to there being less average mileage on them. When you're talking a 200k mile 7m vs a 80-90k mile JZ, the difference in mileage is going to attest for a *huge* difference in wear and tear, and the motor's ability to 'drop in and make huge numbers'

I'd love to find a 150k+ mile JZ making 400+ hp.

p5150 - you've already established that you've no interest in hearing the other side of a debate. Your feeble attempts to belittle anyone else's experience or knowledge shows quite clearly that I'd never touch your car - simply because you're showing yourself to be as nut-swinging and close minded as the MKIV crew. Maybe you should just head over there, as it's more your style.

I'd go as far out of my way as possible to help anyone in the Supra community. You don't find me going into the JZ forums and going 'OH HAHA YOU GOT ROD KNOCK JZ FTL 7M FTW'

You go and post a link to Mike's death thread, where he windowed the block - are you forgetting the fact that his MBC spiked to somewhere over 35psi previously? That will weaken ANY stock rod, proving nothing in my opinion.

But hey, I was done with this thread, remember?

Supra90turbo, you hit the nail on the head.

Like kids, I swear. :3d_frown:

 

[Supracentral]

I'd love to find a 150k+ mile JZ making 400+ hp.

Come by my place, I'll take you down to the shop (we'll make the trip in a 160,000 mile MKIV) and when we get there I'll show you a 1/2 dozen 150K+ mile 2JZ-GTE's making far more than that...

The JZ series of motors (especially the 2J) have been proven time and time again to be one of the most bulletproof motors ever designed. Anyone refuting that is, IMO, an idiot. The track record speaks for itself.

I happen to agree with you that the 7M has, can and will make big power reliably. And that the 'OH HAHA YOU GOT ROD KNOCK JZ FTL 7M FTW' people are only displaying an amazing level of ignorance...

I've said it dozens of times before and I've I'll say it again, the problem, 99 time out of 100 with the MKIII (and the 7M for that matter) is the owner.

 

[Doward]

Ha, that's awesome. I've not seen a single MKIV or swapped MKIII around here that's got over 100k miles.

Well, there's one NA MKIV that's got 104k miles that I know of.

I hadn't seen anything to testify that the JZ held up that kind of power over the very long haul (100K+ miles) - You're the first bit of info I've found stating otherwise

Just for the record - *NEVER* have I refuted the JZ series being better designed than the 7M - if I come across that way, I'm not trying to.

I'm trying to drive home the point that the 7M is not the 3 legged dog some would like to believe.

 

[JustAnotherVictim]

SC speaks truth.

 

[Supracentral]

I'm trying to drive home the point that the 7M is not the 3 legged dog some would like to believe.

No, it's not, I'll agree with you 100% on that one.

 

[bigaaron]

I'd love to find a 150k+ mile JZ making 400+ hp.

Come take a ride in Jose's ~240k miles (no, not kilometers) stock 1jz with the origional stock twins that makes 317 whp and doesn't smoke or knock.

 

[X-man]

Great info X-Man... Are you using the ITC to change your timing under boost?

With the "luck" I have had with my 7M running 400+rwhp for so long now, I wouldn't even consider an engine swap.

I tried using the the ITC to change timing under boost and never really saw much in the way of increases. I played around with the fuel psi and the afc alot to keep my corrections to a minimum. At 31 psi of boost I was at +1% correction to no higher than +8% in the upper rpm range. I did not want the ecu doing more with timing than it was supposed to and I figured the best way to do so was to keep corrections to a minimum.

The a/f's on the dyno were pushed to 12.0 to 12.3 but on the street at 19 psi they were kept at 11.5 to 11.7 and at 31 psi I kept them at 11.2.

Sean