7M Block is better than 2JZ Block

[themadhatter]

bigaaron I have never seen having a long stoke as a dissadvantage It may impair high reving but its great for generating torque in the lower part of the power band. It just makes the 7m a different style motor lots of torque in the low revs not as great top end vs 2jz lots of topend not as much torque. Its all about driving style and motor preference

 

[starscream5000]

The 7M is more expensive becuase it's almost impossible to find a new short or long block of one anymore . 2JZ's aren't nearly as rare.

 

[supra90turbo]

Yep. Common case of supply vs. demand.
More 2JZ shortblocks are bought every year by MKIV owners than I've ever heard of 7M shortblocks being bought. Therefore, the 2JZ will be inherently cheaper due to their ability to move it quickly.

Why? Cheap MK3 crowd, of course.

Think about how many times you've seen a MKIV build use a new toyota shortblock assembly.
Now think back to how people were calling Ian things like "nuts", "insane", and "hardcore" when he bought a 7M shortblock new from toyota.

 

[Supraholics]

Yep. Common case of supply vs. demand.
More 2JZ shortblocks are bought every year by MKIV owners than I've ever heard of 7M shortblocks being bought. Therefore, the 2JZ will be inherently cheaper due to their ability to move it quickly.

Why? Cheap MK3 crowd, of course.

Think about how many times you've seen a MKIV build use a new toyota shortblock assembly.
Now think back to how people were calling Ian things like "nuts", "insane", and "hardcore" when he bought a 7M shortblock new from toyota.

I couldn't agree with you more, Hence the bad reputation MKIII's have. I CANNOT stress it more, when people do a rebuild, DO NOT use any of your old oil system parts from a rod knock.

So many people fixing their MKIII's with home plumbing, and home depot stuff. I could get very deep into the subject, but I rather not. Just MKIII guys, stop being so cheap, do it right the first time. 7Ms are great motors once built right.

Thanks for all the comments, and remember this is NOT really a 7M vs. 2JZ.

 

[89supturbo]

bigaaron I have never seen having a long stoke a a dissadvantage It may impair high reving but its great for generating torque in the lower part of the power band. It just makes the 7m a different style motor lots of torque in the low revs not as great top end vs 2jz lots of topend not as much torque. Its all about driving style and motor preference personally

I'm pretty sure that he meant the 7m's long stroke was part of the reason they are so much less reliable than a 2j

 

[boost fiend]

the length of the stroke does not change the reliability of the engine.

theres 2 sides to this. either you can have a expensive to repair 7m or a 2fast2furious 2j. you want power or the ability to rev higher?

power is power, no matter how its made. its how its handled. do you want to be tha guy sitting there going "well, my engine can rev to 1 billion rpm's" or the guy going " i make XXXhp and XXX ft/tq by 5k rpm's?" i chose the latter.

yeah, the 7m is old. yeah some people fix there tired 7m at home depot. and some guys destroy a piece of history by trading the original engine for a newer version. i come from the old school. i like to keep things matching and do the work to figure out how to make old and tired faster and stronger.

i have respect for both engines, but id rather have a 7m anytime.

 

[bowsercake]

I respect you for that Boost fiend, keep it up.

 

[jamesdem1123]

i kinda like a high revving engine myself, throw a good cam with it and you'll get ALOT of hp when the hp and torque lines cross at 5,252 rpms.

 

[bigaaron]

I'm pretty sure that he meant the 7m's long stroke was part of the reason they are so much less reliable than a 2j

I was more referring to the overall strength then reliability.

The 7m overall long term reliability issue is because of the bad overall hose layout and the type of gaskets used, along with the oil pickup.
The head/block design itself on top of the head bolt torque being too low is to blame for the bhg's.

I bet close inspection of the oil passages in the block and crank would show some of the reasons for the rod knock issues.

People get rod knock and they just throw in another set of rod bearings and it happens again. Did they think that maybe the rod that failed was not getting any oil supply? The oil for the rods goes through the crank, and if the crank has 100k+ miles of shity oil through it the oil passages will be filled with crap like an old man with cholesterol clogged arteries. How about all the bearing material, 100% of that probably didn't get trapped in the filter. Another reason NOT to do a headgasket job in the car. Take the block out and have it hot tanked and all the oil passages cleaned out. Have the crank cleaned, polished and checked. Have the rods resized.

You can make a 7m as reliable as a 2jz at much higher horsepower levels then stock.

Bottom line is that Toyota recognized the issues the 7m had, and designed almost all of them them out of the 1jz and 2jz.
You still have to respect the performance of the 7m considering how old the origional design was.

 

[CBLEGUY]

A 7M Makes a MKIII IMO. Like boost fiend said "Don't destroy a piece of history". I don't drive this car to be fast and the furious. I drive this car because it is a MKIII. My quest is not for the ultimate MKIV power, my quest is for a bitchen (yes I said bitchen!) MKIII turbo that my son and I have spent countless hours in the garage taking it apart, and putting it back together. Besides, I love the song they sing.

 

[OneJoeZee]

A 7M Makes a MKIII IMO. Like boost fiend said "Don't destroy a piece of history".

ha


ha

 

[Supraholics]

CBLEGUY - Here in the US anyways. I just wish TOYOTA would've put some more effort into the 7M from the get go. If the MKIII would've come to the US with the 1JZ OEM, then the MKIII would have had a much better rep then they do and is all because of the early version 7M and a few flaws.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

isnt more strokage more torquage for the 7m?

 

[Dirgle]

Yes, based on the principle of the lever, a longer stroke equates to more torquing force applied to the crankshaft.

So and engine that has the stroke increased will produce more torque than an engine that has an equivalent increase in the bore.

 

[p5150]

The 7M sucks and I am never going back.

400-600 for a 2jzge block that you can turbocharge kicks the shit out of a built 7M.

Sorry 7M, you lose.

 

[figgie]

The 7M sucks and I am never going back.

400-600 for a 2jzge block that you can turbocharge kicks the shit out of a built 7M.

Sorry 7M, you lose.

waaaaahhhhhh!!!

Go cry a river else where. Just because you were not bright enough to get a MOTOR running correctly doesn't mean anything except YOUR lack of knowledge.

A piece of iron with metal moving parts are the same and quite easy to put together and make it relaible (100,000 Miles at the very least). Simple, you follow the god damn instructions for measurements, torque and no issues. Start cutting corners and................. poof here you are crying the god damn nile river in here. :wtc: :wtc: boohoo :wtc: :wtc:

 

[p5150]

waaaaahhhhhh!!!

Go cry a river else where. Just because you were not bright enough to get a MOTOR running correctly doesn't mean anything except YOUR lack of knowledge.

A piece of iron with metal moving parts are the same and quite easy to put together and make it relaible (100,000 Miles at the very least). Simple, you follow the god damn instructions for measurements, torque and no issues. Start cutting corners and................. poof here you are crying the god damn nile river in here. :wtc: :wtc: boohoo :wtc: :wtc:

Actually I did get my 7m running and dynoed 365 hp with a 57 trim ct upgrade. The thrust bearing was destroyed a few thousand miles down the road due to a high pressure clutch.

Instead of being a JACKASS and spending another 500 minimum to rebuild my motor I decided to purchase a used 2JZGE for 400 bucks that is in PERFECT condition and go NAT with it. Its already BUILT.

Obviously you have never rebuilt a 2jz - there are a lot of superior points to it. Not knocking the 7M too bad - it is capable. The 2j is just more bang for the buck.

 

[figgie]

Actually I did get my 7m running and dynoed 365 hp with a 57 trim ct upgrade. The thrust bearing was destroyed a few thousand miles down the road due to a high pressure clutch.

Instead of being a JACKASS and spending another 500 minimum to rebuild my motor I decided to purchase a used 2JZGE for 400 bucks that is in PERFECT condition and go NAT with it. Its already BUILT.

Obviously you have never rebuilt a 2jz - there are a lot of superior points to it. Not knocking the 7M too bad - it is capable. The 2j is just more bang for the buck.

oh actually I have

and 302, 305, 350, 383 etc etc.
Datsun inline 6 (2.8 out of the 280)
old chevy inline 6 (256 ci if I recall).

again, a piece of metal with more metal in a reciprocating configuration (regardless if it is 4, 6, 8, 12 cylinders). Not to hard to screw up unless measurements are taken incorrectly and torque specs are not followed.

 

[Doward]

figgie, you should find a rotary some day

Agreed, though - many kids these days (I can't freaking believe I said that - I'm 23) seem to think that the engine designation is what makes or breaks the potential of a motor.

No, it doesn't. 4 things come into play, with the 'potential' power of a given engine. The bore/stroke, the number of cylinders, the flow of air/fuel, and the valve timing.

The strength of the block also comes into concern, over a certain power output, but you can always have a stronger block cast. Changing out the materials used, does not change the configuration of the motor. Think forged vs cast pistons.

That's why a 3.1L GM V6, a known dog of a motor (140hp stock) can be built to take down an LS1 from a roll. I know, I've done it. (lol, that car ran a 13.6 @ 116 with a 2.3x 60' - fun times with a T61 on it )

Anyway, I digress. The 7M has flaws from the factory, yes. But a good rebuild + MHG/ARPs fixes the major issues. Having an owner that is willing to spend the money to keep it running is another issue. Well, and the damn oil cooling system - what a freaking joke that is!

I'll also just point out in the 7Ms defence - how many 20 year old 2jzs are you finding?

 

[89supturbo]

No, its not the number on the engine that makes it more powerful or gives it more potential but theres a reason they dont just stamp the word engine on every block produced. the number of cylinders doesnt matter at all, displacement of all the cylinders combined does, and in the world of fcar we refer to volumetric efficiency of an engine as a whole flow is for things like heads which will improve the VE, also valve timing is part of volumetric efficiency. that being said the important factors are displacement, and volumetric efficiency, the 7m and 2j have almost equal displacement but the 2j has better volumetric efficiency. You even listed other downfalls of the 7m, oiling issues most importantly that will destroy a motor in short order, and just one final ponit before you try to act smart remember in any automotive disscusion only one thing matters, whos got the ASE certs and who needs to shut up