What should we do about the war in Iraq Poll
- Thread starter Joel W.
- Start date
I used to feel like alot of you guys and think we should mind our own business, quit worrying about oil and other countries fighting, but i was sent this letter in an email and it changed my way of thinking quite a bit.
I know its long, but it is worth the read wether it changes your mind or not, atleast it might give some insight about some of the points we never thought of.
*Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA. A different spin on Iraq war.
This WAR is for REAL! Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired
Tuesday, July 12, 2005
To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is
now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we
have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).
The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are
very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who
realize what losing really means.
First, let's examine a few basics:
1. When did the threat to us start?
Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United State is
concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following
attacks on us:
* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arab ia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.
(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist
attacks worldwide).
2. Why were we attacked?
Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened
during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton
and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there
were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate
predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.
3. Who were the attackers?
In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.
4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.
5. Isn't the Muslim Religion pea ceful?
Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the
predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the
dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no
difference. You either went along with the administration or you were
eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for
political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see
http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )
Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the
six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of
anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world
focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in
his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German,
Christian or any others.
Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill
all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else.
The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no
protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims
there may be, they ar e no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim
leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own
pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful
Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?
6. So who are we at war with?
There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the
Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing
this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't
clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.
So with that background, now to the two major questions:
1. Can we lose this war?
2. What does losing really mean?
If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions. We
can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major
reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to
the second question - What does losing mean?
It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means
hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our
business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.
What losing really means is:
We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will
not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us
dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have
produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18
years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were
neutered and submissive to them.
We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of
reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and
cannot help them.
They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be
Increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't
matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from
Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and
told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will
be done. Spain is finished.
The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might
see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in
that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may
already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading
fast!
If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will
all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if
they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how
could anyone else?
The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are
completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be
likewise committed to winning at any cost.
Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until
we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of
our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100%
effort to win.
So, how can we lose the war?
Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is,
defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose,
and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort If we are
united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided,
there is no way that we can win!
Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life
and death seriousness of this situation.
President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.
Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between
17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does
that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the
duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have
become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil
rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.
And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil
rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in
fact added many more since then.
Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?
No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political
Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a
clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them
out of your head.
Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the
Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us
lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is
because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that
conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and
weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.
Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media
regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best
what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of
a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police.
These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their
own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their
tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with
Saddam Hussein.
And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed
400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same
type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging
their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.
And still more recently , the same type of enemy that was and is providing
videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American
prisoners they held.
Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days
have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some
Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses
through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.
Can this be for real?
The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the
Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of
comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are
fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results
of losing this war, nothing can.
To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner
issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned --
totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor
any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does
not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal.
It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the
situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing
us, for many years.
Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That
translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United State, but
throughout the world.
We are the last bastion of defense.
We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is
valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we
are so good, powerful and smart , that we can win the hearts and minds of
all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we
can defeat anything bad in the world!
We can't!
If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive,
and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.
And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow
freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the
press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any
status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that
contributes to the good of the world.
This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we
will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the
Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to
be written or read.
If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims
take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to
increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by
little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting
among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will
continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.
Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?
>Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external
military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct
piece by politically correct piece.
And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide
that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves,
once they are in power.
They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start
brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the
masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the
"peaceful Muslims"?
I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are
united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election,
the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation
we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are
talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.
After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but
our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world
Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that include
the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!
Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our
"leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too. There are those that find
fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks
through this, that we must UNITE!
If you would like to see who this fellow is go to this Air Force web
sight and look him up.
http://www.af.mil/bios/alpha.asp?alpha=C
I know its long, but it is worth the read wether it changes your mind or not, atleast it might give some insight about some of the points we never thought of.
*Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA. A different spin on Iraq war.
This WAR is for REAL! Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired
Tuesday, July 12, 2005
To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is
now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we
have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).
The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are
very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who
realize what losing really means.
First, let's examine a few basics:
1. When did the threat to us start?
Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United State is
concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following
attacks on us:
* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arab ia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.
(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist
attacks worldwide).
2. Why were we attacked?
Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened
during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton
and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there
were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate
predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.
3. Who were the attackers?
In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.
4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.
5. Isn't the Muslim Religion pea ceful?
Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the
predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the
dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no
difference. You either went along with the administration or you were
eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for
political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see
http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )
Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the
six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of
anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world
focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in
his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German,
Christian or any others.
Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill
all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else.
The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no
protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims
there may be, they ar e no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim
leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own
pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful
Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?
6. So who are we at war with?
There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the
Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing
this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't
clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.
So with that background, now to the two major questions:
1. Can we lose this war?
2. What does losing really mean?
If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions. We
can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major
reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to
the second question - What does losing mean?
It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means
hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our
business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.
What losing really means is:
We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will
not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us
dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have
produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18
years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were
neutered and submissive to them.
We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of
reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and
cannot help them.
They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be
Increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't
matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from
Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and
told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will
be done. Spain is finished.
The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might
see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in
that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may
already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading
fast!
If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will
all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if
they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how
could anyone else?
The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are
completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be
likewise committed to winning at any cost.
Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until
we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of
our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100%
effort to win.
So, how can we lose the war?
Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is,
defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose,
and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort If we are
united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided,
there is no way that we can win!
Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life
and death seriousness of this situation.
President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.
Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between
17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does
that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the
duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have
become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil
rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.
And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil
rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in
fact added many more since then.
Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?
No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political
Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a
clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them
out of your head.
Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the
Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us
lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is
because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that
conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and
weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.
Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media
regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best
what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of
a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police.
These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their
own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their
tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with
Saddam Hussein.
And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed
400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same
type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging
their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.
And still more recently , the same type of enemy that was and is providing
videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American
prisoners they held.
Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days
have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some
Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses
through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.
Can this be for real?
The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the
Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of
comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are
fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results
of losing this war, nothing can.
To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner
issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned --
totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor
any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does
not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal.
It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the
situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing
us, for many years.
Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That
translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United State, but
throughout the world.
We are the last bastion of defense.
We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is
valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we
are so good, powerful and smart , that we can win the hearts and minds of
all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we
can defeat anything bad in the world!
We can't!
If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive,
and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.
And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow
freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the
press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any
status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that
contributes to the good of the world.
This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we
will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the
Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to
be written or read.
If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims
take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to
increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by
little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting
among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will
continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.
Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?
>Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external
military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct
piece by politically correct piece.
And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide
that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves,
once they are in power.
They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start
brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the
masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the
"peaceful Muslims"?
I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are
united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election,
the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation
we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are
talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.
After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but
our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world
Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that include
the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!
Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our
"leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too. There are those that find
fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks
through this, that we must UNITE!
If you would like to see who this fellow is go to this Air Force web
sight and look him up.
http://www.af.mil/bios/alpha.asp?alpha=C
After reading this a few times now, my biggest question is still for all of you that answered to "Stay there as long as it takes no matter the cost!"
At 74 million dollars a day for this war. every day, of every year, I ask only this: As long as it takes to do what exactly?
At 74 million dollars a day for this war. every day, of every year, I ask only this: As long as it takes to do what exactly?
JustAnotherVictim
Supramania Contributor
I don't think we should stay there longer than another year but what's to say we're not gonna have to go back and do it all over again. Their people need to start fixing their own problems.
audioman81 said:
That's a good read! I've had the pleasure of listening to a few generals and those fellows give it to you straight and with gusto.
Joel W. said:
the letter i posted says exactly why we are there, but i guess you have a point about how we win. it says how we can lose so basically the opposite would be winning correct? It seems like this will be a never ending battle, or until we get rid of all the people trying to take away our freedoms.
Last edited:
I have, but maybe you can sum it up for me on how it pertains to Iraq, not the war on terror?
One was to engage in faraway wars, which inevitably entailed enormous expenditures, enabling the government to place ever-increasing tax burdens on the people. Such wars also inevitably entailed “patriotic” calls for blind allegiance to the government so long as the war was being waged
No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
History proves this time and time again....
One was to engage in faraway wars, which inevitably entailed enormous expenditures, enabling the government to place ever-increasing tax burdens on the people. Such wars also inevitably entailed “patriotic” calls for blind allegiance to the government so long as the war was being waged
No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
History proves this time and time again....
This is my opinion on the matter, Iraq is part of the war on terror. I still believe that the President didn't lie to us and was truly convinced that there were WMD's (and still probably are somewhere in the desert) and that's why we went there. Saddam Hussein had ties to terrorist, if you don't want to believe that then that's fine, but he did. And the President saw him to be the biggest threat at the time, so he took out Hussein and his regime.
With that said, what's happened since then could've gone A LOT better. But because politics and personal agendas had to get in the way, the state department, the defense department, the president, all of them are walking on egg shells because the American public is so easily swayed based on what is seen and heard through the various news outlets. News outlets which we have already established filter the news so that we hear what they want us to hear and the edit it in a way that they want it to be seen.
If you truly read that e-mail from the General then you will see the point that really needs to be seen and that's we REALLY need to unite somehow and realize what's at stake. If you really believe that if we pull out of Iraq and let them go about dealing with the aftermath themselves (in which case we would be giving our enemies and entire country of new recruits) and we go about living our lives like nothing happened, that muslim extremists will leave us alone and we can all co-exist in the world together. Then our country will probably not exist as we know it a decade from now. They want us dead.
With that said, what's happened since then could've gone A LOT better. But because politics and personal agendas had to get in the way, the state department, the defense department, the president, all of them are walking on egg shells because the American public is so easily swayed based on what is seen and heard through the various news outlets. News outlets which we have already established filter the news so that we hear what they want us to hear and the edit it in a way that they want it to be seen.
If you truly read that e-mail from the General then you will see the point that really needs to be seen and that's we REALLY need to unite somehow and realize what's at stake. If you really believe that if we pull out of Iraq and let them go about dealing with the aftermath themselves (in which case we would be giving our enemies and entire country of new recruits) and we go about living our lives like nothing happened, that muslim extremists will leave us alone and we can all co-exist in the world together. Then our country will probably not exist as we know it a decade from now. They want us dead.
SupraDerk said:
You have been mislead, IMO. Rememer, he tried to kill Bush's dad. The evidence is out there if you read the 9/11 report!!!
No WMD were found because we asked Saddam to get rid of them and he did. Staying there will only create more terrorists. Period.
Furthermore, Saddam is gone, "mission accomplished", why stay?
What is left to do?
JustAnotherVictim
Supramania Contributor
I gotta agree with Joel on that one. The whole WMD thing was bull. You claim they're there but can't find one single thing?? Is it good we got Saddam out of power? Sure. We put him there and he stop listening to us. Our fault again.
JustAnotherVictim said:
I didn't say that there ARE WMD's there... I said probably. There's a big difference between "there IS a gun in the car" and "there's PROBABLY a gun in the car"
Please don't put words in my mouth
JustAnotherVictim
Supramania Contributor
JustAnotherVictim said:
I'm saying I don't think that he was lying about thinking there were WMD's in Iraq. Not anything about finding or not finding any there. That I believe he thought, based on what intelligence agencies told him, that they were there.
JustAnotherVictim
Supramania Contributor
The problem with that is it's all based on an assumption. He certainly didn't help himself by wasting time with the UN if there really were any there. Plus informing the Iraqi government about where they were going to inspect prior to the actual inspections.SupraDerk said:
SupraDerk said:
That may be the case, I really do not know for sure, and it really does not matter now, but it does not look that way when I read it. That aside, Why stay there now?
JustAnotherVictim said:
How else could they have inspected the country without going through the right channels? I don't think he made an assumption. Intelligence agencies TOLD him that they were there. It's there job to be on top of that as a micromanaging president would fail miserably at his task of being the pres. They failed him by not having clear and precise intelligence and now we have the situation we do today.
Joel W. said:
Cause if we leave, we create more enemies, lower our standing in the world and start to set ourselves up for the ultimate ass raping.