Using JZ's igniter in 7M-GTE (+)

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siman

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Speculation?

What the hell does that supposed to mean?

Figgie, you are one hell of a egotist. You remind me of IJ and Dr.Jonez....always bashing people and making assumptions "they dont know what the hell they are doing or how to do it"..

you have really really really pissed me, and I feel I can speak for bigaaron as well that you have really pissed him off as well.

Wow, you have a standalone....probably has a FIELD HARNESS too.....plug and play.....wowweeeeeeeeee

Like Bigaaron said, why dont you do it Figgie if you have already figured it out ( and said it wouldnt work)....

:feeling very irritated right now:

-Jonathan
 

soapra

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figgie said:
no you nimrod it was the problem as the 7m coil could not charge the 1jz COPS under boost running one 7m ignitor to 2 1jz cops in parallel.... seems like dwell to me slappy.

It's the current capability of the 7m ignitor, since it's not cdi. You are all invited to the player haters ball for special recognition...
 

siman

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soapra said:
It's the current capability of the 7m ignitor, since it's not cdi. You are all invited to the player haters ball for special recognition...


LOL....... :biglaugh:

I new it couldnt be the dwell time, since the 1jz and 7m both have about the same firing order and firing timing. It would have to be in the current...there was not enough coming from ONE igniter for all 6 coils....

so basically add another igniter, and split 3 coils per igniter and go.

but the wiring is the key. And I believe Bigaaron should keep it to himself. Afterall....do you really think Kournal Sanders would give his secret recipe to the Harde's haters?

I dont think so.

-Jonathan
 

figgie

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Mar 30, 2005
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siman said:
Speculation?

What the hell does that supposed to mean?

Figgie, you are one hell of a egotist. You remind me of IJ and Dr.Jonez....always bashing people and making assumptions "they dont know what the hell they are doing or how to do it"..

you have really really really pissed me, and I feel I can speak for bigaaron as well that you have really pissed him off as well.

Wow, you have a standalone....probably has a FIELD HARNESS too.....plug and play.....wowweeeeeeeeee

Like Bigaaron said, why dont you do it Figgie if you have already figured it out ( and said it wouldnt work)....

:feeling very irritated right now:

-Jonathan

Honestly i could give two fucks who i piss off. i call it like it is whether you pansy ass likes it or not.

All you need to know is that it is a standalone.. any other information is, well none of your fucking business. ;)
 

figgie

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soapra said:
It's the current capability of the 7m ignitor, since it's not cdi. You are all invited to the player haters ball for special recognition...

wow

basic ignition

dwell affects current. Not enough dwell, not enough current going to be produced at the time needed.

Thanks. :)
 

soapra

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siman said:
LOL....... :biglaugh:

I new it couldnt be the dwell time, since the 1jz and 7m both have about the same firing order and firing timing. It would have to be in the current...there was not enough coming from ONE igniter for all 6 coils....

so basically add another igniter, and split 3 coils per igniter and go.

but the wiring is the key. And I believe Bigaaron should keep it to himself. Afterall....do you really think Kournal Sanders would give his secret recipe to the Harde's haters?

I dont think so.

-Jonathan


Your right Jonathan! but then again you asume so much! HA!

but yes Dwell had nothing to do with it, and that is why Aaron is an Electrical Eng. Ask Tem about Aaron and me and we both go way back, before there was a Supramania(Tem runs it) and a Figgie(dingleberry) so Aaron is no newbie.
 

rakkasan

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siman said:
LOL....... :biglaugh:

I new it couldnt be the dwell time, since the 1jz and 7m both have about the same firing order and firing timing. It would have to be in the current...there was not enough coming from ONE igniter for all 6 coils....

so basically add another igniter, and split 3 coils per igniter and go.

but the wiring is the key. And I believe Bigaaron should keep it to himself. Afterall....do you really think Kournal Sanders would give his secret recipe to the Harde's haters?

I dont think so.

-Jonathan

Did you mean 'Colonel' Sanders? :rofl:
 

siman

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rakkasan said:
Did you mean 'Colonel' Sanders? :rofl:


I though Kournal....KFC....Kournal Friend chicken, not Kentucky Friend chicken...LOL

I got them miscombobulated there for a brief moment...but its always good to have a funny moment in a heated conversation. :naughty:
 

siman

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soapra said:
Your right Jonathan! but then again you asume so much! HA!

but yes Dwell had nothing to do with it, and that is why Aaron is an Electrical Eng. Ask Tem about Aaron and me and we both go way back, before there was a Supramania(Tem runs it) and a Figgie(dingleberry) so Aaron is no newbie.


I just cant help but assume alot of things you know. :biglaugh: ..

I dont know much about electronics and stuff ( my brother does though) but there is one thing I know for sure, and I emaild my bro on it to get an ok on this, but current cannot be affected by just the dwell time.

Current is CURRENT.....dwell time is just how long the current stays in one place and does not move....if that can even happen...since current is always moving....

is that remotely right?
 

siman

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this is what my brother JUST NOW emaild me:

The amount of time current is allowed to flow is not going to affect HOW MUCH current there is...think of it as a water spout...

water flowing = current

Lets say you measure how much water is coming out of the spout for 1 second...and say that it comes out to 10 liters per hour. So, the flow rate (current) is 10 liters per hour.

Now do the same thing for 5 seconds...you would STILL get the same reading of 10 liters per hour (as long as you didn't change anything from the first test). Who cares HOW LONG you let it run...

Current isn't dependent on how long you measure it...it might fluctuate with changes in the circuit, but as long as everything is the same, the longer the current is applied won't change its overall value. It might affect other systems, but it will stay the same.


yeah he's a little bright. :icon_razz

-Jonathan
 

siman

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figgie said:
dude you really need to get your fucking facts straight.

Edison did not go to a public forum and gather the public forums IDEAS and run with it. And actaully the light bulb is the same. The patent for the light bulb has expired (75 years after the fact). Halogen light bulbs are a DIFFERENT pattent. Same with HIDs, mercury vapor etc. All different and thier patents (save for HID) are also.. EXPIRED.


Have you even read a patent? Didn't think so...

Expired? Ever heard of renewing a patent? Didn't think so either...most companies do it. Might want to read up bro...

Oh, and the light bulb is THE SAME? Damn, so we have been using the same light bulb edison designed? Same inert gases inside, same filament composition, same glass...??? Must I continue?

Big-Ass FYI: Halogens aren't THAT much different, and if you look closely at how they are designed, they share some of the SAME PRINCIPLES as the original light bulb. Go figure! How did they do it??

Please tell me you don't think people can't use what is availible to them (patents, research data, existing products, concepts, etc, etc, friggin etc) to make something new and innovative...

Oh, and you can't just steal designs off expired patents anyways...something called INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.

Well, hell, with all those things to change and modify, I could make MY OWN FARKING LIGHTBULB and place it on your head, because you now realize you don't know what you are talking about.

Please STFU...you're a whiny little bastard arent you?

I need to get back to work LMAO :3d_frown:

Cheers...

Jon's Bro
 
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rakkasan

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siman said:
Have you even read a patent? Didn't think so...

Expired? Ever heard of renewing a patent? Didn't think so either...most companies do it. Might want to read up bro...

Oh, and the light bulb is THE SAME? Damn, so we have been using the same light bulb edison designed? Same inert gases inside, same filament composition, same glass...??? Must I continue?

Big-Ass FYI: Halogens aren't THAT much different, and if you look closely at how they are designed, they share some of the SAME PRINCIPLES as the original light bulb. Go figure! How did they do it??

Please tell me you don't think people can't use what is availible to them (patents, research data, existing products, concepts, etc, etc, friggin etc) to make something new and innovative...

Oh, and you can't just steal designs off expired patents anyways...something called INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.

Well, hell, with all those things to change and modify, I could make MY OWN FARKING LIGHTBULB and place it on your head, because you now realize you don't know what you are talking about.

Please STFU...you're a whiny little bastard arent you?

I need to get back to work LMAO :3d_frown:

Cheers...

Jon's Bro

You need to do some research before you try to blow smoke up someones ass.

Patent
"A patent is the grant of a property right to the inventor, issued by the Patent and Trademark Office. The term of a new patent is usually 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States. The right of a patent is the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling the invention in the United States. Basically, a patent gives the owner the right to a monopoly on the use and sell of the invention for a period of time."

Patent Requirements
"To get a patent, your invention or discovery must meet certain requirements before the Patent and Trademark office will grant a patent. For a utility patent (the most common type of patent), the invention must be either: a process or method for producing a “useful, concrete, and tangible result”; a machine; an article of manufacture; a composition of matter; or an improvement of an invention that fits into one of the above categories."

"In addition to falling within one of the above categories, the invention must also have some utility or usefulness, be novel or different from something else in an important way, and be nonobvious to someone who understands the technical field of invention."

"For design patents, the invention must be novel, nonobvious, and nonfunctional. For a plant patent, the plant must be novel and nonobvious to qualify for a patent."



I found nothing about the ability to renew a patent, so if I'm wrong, you'll have to prove it to me.

Intellectual Property is a form of a copyright, not patents. IP deals with ideas, not property. So your theory about Intellectual property protection is bunk. Have you ever wondered why generic drugs exist for some medication but not others? It's because the patent expired and the developing company lost its' right to be the sole manufacturer of it.

For your ease of research, I'll provide this link: Click me
 
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Dirgle

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bigaaron said:
Dirgle is the only one who really offered anything that helped me with this.

Well I can't take much credit for that. I just remembered something and pointed you in the right direction. I'm glad it helped.

As for getting it to work bigaaron, congratulations. It's nice to see someone try something new from time to time and pull it off. Good job.

Moving on...
I'd say the name calling is getting out of hand and completely unnecessary.

Now......(sorry to piss on your parade, you did a cool thing and are getting more than your fair share of heat for it.)

1. I don't see jealously playing a part in this. The 7mgte system is good for 700hp few are ever going to need to change it. People are just pissed about your use of these forums.

2. I believe you have a right to do as you see fit with the information you gathered and filtered. If you choose to make and sell something. It's you right so do as you please.

3. The issue I run into is that these are public forums, whose main purpose is to bring people together to generate as well as stimulate the flow of information. You my friend are disturbing this flow. You have pulled out but not put back in causing unbalance. You are defeating the purpose of these forums. But in the end it is your choice to make, right or wrong. You see I come from a generation that believes all information should be available; nothing should be hidden for profit or personal gain. Profit and personal gain should come from how a person acts on that information. This reasoning maybe the explanation why I never become wealthy but so be it.

4.If you do share this information with the community we may be able to refine it and make it better. Though at this point I doubt few would be willing to help.

5. Notice I gave what little information I had out freely. I asked for nothing in return just that it be well used. This is the way I believe, if I have information to give, I will give it with out any rules, or restriction, or expectations, implied or otherwise. Lead by example.

These are my personal beliefs. How I see and believe things should be done. What you do with the information you gathered is entirely your choice, and it’s your choice to make as long as you accept responsibility for it. Accepting responsibility means accepting the consequences. Consequences being that people may be less inclined to help you in the future. If your fine with this then Good Job and more power to ya.

So needless to say I think you should throw up those diagrams. While I will probably never change the stock ignition system I’m curious to see what your solution was.
 

lagged

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Mar 30, 2005
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dirgle said:
Well I can't take much credit for that. I just remembered something and pointed you in the right direction. I'm glad it helped.

As for getting it to work bigaaron, congratulations. It's nice to see someone try something new from time to time and pull it off. Good job.

Moving on...
I'd say the name calling is getting out of hand and completely unnecessary.

Now......(sorry to piss on your parade, you did a cool thing and are getting more than your fair share of heat for it.)

1. I don't see jealously playing a part in this. The 7mgte system is good for 700hp few are ever going to need to change it. People are just pissed about your use of these forums.

2. I believe you have a right to do as you see fit with the information you gathered and filtered. If you choose to make and sell something. It's you right so do as you please.

3. The issue I run into is that these are public forums, whose main purpose is to bring people together to generate as well as stimulate the flow of information. You my friend are disturbing this flow. You have pulled out but not put back in causing unbalance. You are defeating the purpose of these forums. But in the end it is your choice to make, right or wrong. You see I come from a generation that believes all information should be available; nothing should be hidden for profit or personal gain. Profit and personal gain should come from how a person acts on that information. This reasoning maybe the explanation why I never become wealthy but so be it.

4.If you do share this information with the community we may be able to refine it and make it better. Though at this point I doubt few would be willing to help.

5. Notice I gave what little information I had out freely. I asked for nothing in return just that it be well used. This is the way I believe, if I have information to give, I will give it with out any rules, or restriction, or expectations, implied or otherwise. Lead by example.

These are my personal beliefs. How I see and believe things should be done. What you do with the information you gathered is entirely your choice, and it’s your choice to make as long as you accept responsibility for it. Accepting responsibility means accepting the consequences. Consequences being that people may be less inclined to help you in the future. If your fine with this then Good Job and more power to ya.

So needless to say I think you should throw up those diagrams. While I will probably never change the stock ignition system I’m curious to see what your solution was.


this would also never stop you from making money, you understand? if you were serious about marketing this, you get a patent on that method of altering the stock ignition system.

you would be the only person with the rights to profit from the sale of your product. anyone who wants to sell another product utilizing "your" method would have to have your permission.

youre simply a leech.
take that for what its worth you greedy fuck :)
 

shaeff

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soapra said:
Your a moderator, your way out of line, i think the mod status is getting to your head Morron!

thats not his mod status getting to his head, thats figgie being himself and filtering out the bullshit. ;)

-shaeff
 

tte

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Exactly what i was going to write Dirgle...

As for getting a patent...its of no use...I think the cost of getting one outweigh what you would get if you sold your products.Anyone can come up with another design and would not violate your patent...so many ways to achieve the same purpose.

Its a simple circuit...and any engineer like myself can design a circuit for the Supra club....This solution came about from contributions from the community and your hard work and i think knowledge should be shared in the community but its your choice in the end...and we should respect your choice.

Cheers,
Roy
 

siman

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rakkasan said:
You need to do some research before you try to blow smoke up someones ass.

Patent
"A patent is the grant of a property right to the inventor, issued by the Patent and Trademark Office. The term of a new patent is usually 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States. The right of a patent is the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling the invention in the United States. Basically, a patent gives the owner the right to a monopoly on the use and sell of the invention for a period of time."

Patent Requirements
"To get a patent, your invention or discovery must meet certain requirements before the Patent and Trademark office will grant a patent. For a utility patent (the most common type of patent), the invention must be either: a process or method for producing a “useful, concrete, and tangible result”; a machine; an article of manufacture; a composition of matter; or an improvement of an invention that fits into one of the above categories."

"In addition to falling within one of the above categories, the invention must also have some utility or usefulness, be novel or different from something else in an important way, and be nonobvious to someone who understands the technical field of invention."

"For design patents, the invention must be novel, nonobvious, and nonfunctional. For a plant patent, the plant must be novel and nonobvious to qualify for a patent."



I found nothing about the ability to renew a patent, so if I'm wrong, you'll have to prove it to me.

Intellectual Property is a form of a copyright, not patents. IP deals with ideas, not property. So your theory about Intellectual property protection is bunk. Have you ever wondered why generic drugs exist for some medication but not others? It's because the patent expired and the developing company lost its' right to be the sole manufacturer of it.

For your ease of research, I'll provide this link: Click me

You can renew a patent. :yawn:

http://www.inventkansas.com/content.php?cid=1003

COSTS INVOLVED IN PATENTS as of February 1, 2005

Disclosure Document $10
Provisional Application $200
Utility Patent Filing Fee $300
Design Patent Filing Fee $200
Plant Patent Filing Fee $200
Utility Patent Issue Fee $1,400
Design Patent Issue Fee $800
Plant Patent Issue Fee $1,100
Printed Copy of Patent $3
Patent Renewal Costs
After 3.5 years $900
After 7.5 years $2,300
After 11.5 years $3,800
Check with PTO for all updated fees for these and other services.

USPTO:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/annual/2004/040606_earnedrev.html

"Patent maintenance fees are the largest source of earned revenue, and as they are recognized immediately, any fluctuations in the rates of renewal have a significant impact on the total earned revenue of the USPTO. To some extent, renewals recoup costs incurred during the initial patent process"


My point with the patent blog: You CAN use existing ideas, pull them together, and use them for you own. Was it your info that helped? Maybe, but bottom line, you didn't make the final product. Boo hoo.

IP: Simply an example of how you can claim rights to an invention, process, etc, and have many, many sources that you pull from to actually make the invention what it is....isn't that the whole argument here or am I wrong??

Oh, here is a link...LMAO...from the World Intellectual Property Organization

http://www.wipo.int/about-ip/en/

"Intellectual property is divided into two categories: Industrial property, which includes inventions (patents), trademarks, industrial designs, and geographic indications of source; and Copyright, which includes literary and artistic works such as novels, poems and plays, films, musical works, artistic works such as drawings, paintings, photographs and sculptures, and architectural designs. Rights related to copyright include those of performing artists in their performances, producers of phonograms in their recordings, and those of broadcasters in their radio and television programs."

YOU:
Intellectual Property is a form of a copyright, not patents



lol...that was fun... :biglaugh:
 

GrimJack

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Damnit people, the name calling stops here.

The rest of my post is personal opinion rather than moderator enforcement, like the above statement.

If someone wants to make and sell a product, that's their right. If someone wants to research a product and publish the schematics, that is also their right.

Nobody here is going to patent anything, it costs more for the patent than you can make reselling the product.

Personally, I'd publish the design AND offer a prebuilt kit for sale. I'd price the kit at the cost of parts plus the cost of labor to put it together. But then, I am also from the free information generation - I published the dimensions for solid motor mounts, I gave away the artwork for the SM stickers, I do free photoshop work for members, the list goes on.

Please be aware, however, that I am *not* telling anyone what is right, or how they should act, just explaining my own motives.
 

chevyeater

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Mar 30, 2005
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bigaaron said:
I'm sorry, I did state that wrong. The igt signal goes to the ignitors internal dwell angle control circuit, and the 1jz ecu controls the timing of the individual coil outputs, not the dwell time. You got me there. So many people think im an asshole that I got confused and actually became one. :nono:
I will refund the $.25 immediately.

I happen to have a 1jz in my driveway so I will check the actual dwell time and see if it is indeed 1/2 of the 7m ignitor. So your thesis is that the 7m ignitor running 3 individual 1j coils has half the dwell time of the 1jz ignitor?
I will check that and send you $.50 if you are right.

The stock JZ will have 2x the dwell of the 7M, since it is not a wasted fire system. The 7M ignitor is going to fire the coils twice per cycle, just like it did with the stock coils. This is providing 1/2 the dwell the JZ coils need to charge. Using two ignitors simply feeds twice the current in 1/2 the dwell time. The problem was dwell, you just fixed it backwards (and probably not completely).

I don't want your system for myself, it is pretty obvious from my earlier posts that I think it isn't the best idea for performance. My issue is purely philisophical on this. When you ask a community for help, you need to share the results with them. That is what an honest and decent person would do and that is what I do every time I find or verify something. I'm sure you could still sell them to the slackers that have no inclination to assemble thier own (too busy agruing on the internet) but have money burning a hole in thier pockets. That is what America is built on.

Keep the $.50, just realize why I'm bothered by your actions.
 
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