Just followed the directions the AEM tech and book had. Pulled the plugs and vacc. out over 10fl. oz of fuel from 3 cylinders. Changed the plugs and put the stock ecu back in and havent attempted it again. Like I said I dont know much about tuning just that little experience, and my hondata.Which was much easier and actually had a driveable base cal. I started reading up on the AEM and going threw the parameters and found that the base cal they give you has the injectors and pump running at the accessory position instead of the predefined cranking rpm params. Like I said I am in the process of learning these things and try and read as much as possible from you guys with more experience.
Time to go to a stand alone
- Thread starter JStoked
- Start date
DEFIANT 7M;1800631 said:Speedfreak426 how does the launch control work? Also I'm going to be using the 1ZZ-FE coils, will I encounter much grief. Also can you stage nitrous.. I have more questions but I'm going to read some more and see if I can figure it out. I may buy my unit in a few weeks. Thanks man... I'm not going to lie I'm a bit intimidated with this but I'm going to go MegaSquirt here is another thread on CelicaSupra. Everything doesn't make sense that I'm readingyet. http://www.celicasupra.com/forums/showthread.php?25059-Megasquirt-thread
Launch control works by backing off spark timing a lot to change when the combustion even takes place, and it can also interrupt spark completely so it "misses" to get some of that fuel combustion going on in the exhaust manifold to spool up the turbo. You can really set it to do many different things.
To use those 1zz coils, you will either have to build many different circuits for ignitors, and build an extra circuit for a second trigger from the CPS for TDC reference, or wire them up in wasted spark mode with only 3 spark outputs. Or, run MS3, which i have no experience with, but should be able to give you spark outputs more easily than MS2, but you need to use more than just one pickup from the CPS.
As for nitrous, yes you can stage it if you use the MS extra software, I pulled up the settings and took a screenshot for you. You may have to build an extra circuit to get the trigger input to work, there is instruction on how to do this if necessary. I sure hope you do your research so you know what you are getting into!
MightyAl;1800663 said:
I did, in fact, use only one sensor from the CPS. I also had to take the CPS apart so I could grind a tooth off of the wheel inside. So in a sense, it is "hacked"
I still do have all of the sensors remaining inside the unit, I am just not using them at the moment, I left them in there, in case I want to upgrade to COP in the future, or if I need to know where TDC #1 is, but it doesn't matter with wasted spark, and you can use just one output easily. I also used an oscilloscope to check the output of the CPS compared with the output of the conditioning circuit to the MS daughterboard processor.
It IS very confusing at times, but you just need to have a set plan on what you want the MS to control and what inputs and outputs you will be using. All of the information is out there, you just have to find it. I found everything I needed, there are just a lot of options. I loved the whole MS build, just because it is an awesome learning experience, and it challenges you to do things on your own. You will never be happier with yourself than when know what you have done, when your engine starts for the first time when you have build the contraption running it!
Speadfreak.. thanks much for posting this info. Ya know you are going to be the MS guru from now on. I have to install a new radiator and Synapse bov within the next week then its going to be time for the MS3. Will have to first take out and sell my safc, avcr and lex afm but I am now definitely going with MS. Thanks for making up my mind. Uh... will probably have some questions Speed.
Just so all of you guys know...
I am willing to help some of you guys. BUT, I will not help with everything, it is your responsibility to answer ceartin questions about your own setup. For example, if you want to run another ignition system, or COP, or other things. I may be able to figure out how to do it, but I will not do all of your research for you. All of this information is out there, I am just bring my expirence her to get you guys started.
I will not be held responsible if you screw something up or do not understand at all what is going on.
Not being an asshole or anything, but I just can't spend all my time building your setup for you.
Not trying to put anyone off, but feel free to ask me if you have questions about what I did! I am willing to help you guys that are serious about this.
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MS3 is a lil different from what i am using, so I cant tell you specifics of what goes where on the main board, but with sensors and how-to's I will be able to help you. If it is something more complicated, I may have you guys call me instead of me typing all of it out! haha
I am willing to help some of you guys. BUT, I will not help with everything, it is your responsibility to answer ceartin questions about your own setup. For example, if you want to run another ignition system, or COP, or other things. I may be able to figure out how to do it, but I will not do all of your research for you. All of this information is out there, I am just bring my expirence her to get you guys started.
I will not be held responsible if you screw something up or do not understand at all what is going on.
Not being an asshole or anything, but I just can't spend all my time building your setup for you.
Not trying to put anyone off, but feel free to ask me if you have questions about what I did! I am willing to help you guys that are serious about this.
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Randy87T;1800858 said:
MS3 is a lil different from what i am using, so I cant tell you specifics of what goes where on the main board, but with sensors and how-to's I will be able to help you. If it is something more complicated, I may have you guys call me instead of me typing all of it out! haha
I hope I'm not wrong here but from what I understand the MS3 with the 1.1 Firmware uses all the oem sensors and does the DLI Multiplexing without any additional hacking. (the 1.1 works only on the ms3)
So now with the PNP option it should be build it, plug it in and start tuning.
Can it be that easy?
So now with the PNP option it should be build it, plug it in and start tuning.
Can it be that easy?
Randy87T;1800858 said:
Randy87T;1800957 said:
MS3... I have no idea, but I assume it would work just fine with all factory thing.
One thing I do know is, the DLI Multiplex system is stupid, and it sucks, so I got rid of it completely and just built my own ignitors from scratch
Ok I am really ready to do this but need to know if I should be going with the ms3. It has all the bells and whistles of the other standalones for a much smaller price. I have my car finally setup and running e85 so this is my next step in my plan. Wanting 600whp and a 10's quarter mile. Should I go with the MS3 ????
Randy87T;1804406 said:
The ms3 works with the lc-1. It is the wideband that is recommended on DIYautotune.com. The ms3 will do fuel mapping according to wideband o2 feedback mapping. You can set up your maps and drive the car and it will trim the fuel maps according to the wideband o2 sensor readings. Pretty slick and a lot like the plug and drive ecu's they are selling to the old hot rod crowd that is converting from toilet bowls to injection.
^Ha! First time I've heard of a carb referred to as a "toilet bowl". That's gold!
Yes, go with MS3. You can do full sequential fuel injection and much much more. It is definitely worth it.
I've decided to run MS2 on my stock NA 7mge. My setup will be as plug n play and simple as it gets. Tunerstudio allows MS2 and MS3 to be tuned in "auto-tune" mode which MightyAl was talking about. Set your target A/F and let it do the rest. You still have to manually tune for WOT and fine tuning, but this really speeds up tuning time and takes a lot of the guess work out of it.
The LC1 is a good wide band. I'll be using the MTX-L O2 sensor and gauge with my setup.
That's gold!Yes, go with MS3. You can do full sequential fuel injection and much much more. It is definitely worth it.
I've decided to run MS2 on my stock NA 7mge. My setup will be as plug n play and simple as it gets. Tunerstudio allows MS2 and MS3 to be tuned in "auto-tune" mode which MightyAl was talking about. Set your target A/F and let it do the rest. You still have to manually tune for WOT and fine tuning, but this really speeds up tuning time and takes a lot of the guess work out of it.
The LC1 is a good wide band. I'll be using the MTX-L O2 sensor and gauge with my setup.
MPR;1799604 said:
Thanks you guys for answering my questions. (thought the thread went dead quick) Didn't know if the MS3 was overkill for my goals or not but it sounds like it will be something that I will grow into and learn from. Really glad to here that the lc-1 (that I just bought this summer) is compatible with the ms. Great news.
MPR according to the link in your quote the MS3 kit is $373 but the quote I got from DIY is $707. I thought it was everything that's needed to build the kit but maybe ther are things in their quote that I don't need. Can you take a look below and check out the list.
MS330-K $365 Megasquirt-III kit with V3.0 PCB
MS3Xpander $90 MS3X expansion card
JimStim-K $59 JimStim Stimulator kit
StimPower $8.99 Power supply for JimStim
MSHarness8 $67 8' main board wiring harness
MS3X-Harness $78 12' MS3X wiring harness
IATwPiggy $22.25 Intake Air Temperature Sensor
38NPT-Bung_A $9 Aluminum bung for IAT sensor (Also available in stainless steel)
MS3TuneCable $6.95 USB communications cable for MS3
Subtotal without wideband-- $707.19
Plus I want the Map Daddy for higher boost if needed later. It's another $65.
Do you see anything here I do or don't need? Assuming that you get back to me shortly then will probably place the order tomorrow.
There hasn't been anything I have done to my car that has made me nervous. Like probably most of you without ever doing it before and doing mostly alone I have buit my car but for some reason this ecu thing does. I am not worried about building/installling/tuning the ms. I think it's just the idea of getting the correct pieces bought that's bugging the crap out of me. LOL.
I really appreciate the help.
Randy
^You don't need the following:
Stimulator kit
Stimulator power supply
I built mine without using it just fine. A bunch of my racing buddies have all built MS2's and MS3's without the stim kits. It's not absolutely necessary.
And you will also save yourself a lot of money if you just get the DB37 connectors and not the pre-assembled harness's. Grab some wire and make your own.
However, there are additional components (like the map daddy) that you must add if you want those particular features. The MAP that comes on board the standard MS can handle quite a bit of boost, so I question just how much boost are you planning to run? lol. It is still a competitive cost per capability compared to other "big name" EMS systems.
Stimulator kit
Stimulator power supply
I built mine without using it just fine. A bunch of my racing buddies have all built MS2's and MS3's without the stim kits. It's not absolutely necessary.
And you will also save yourself a lot of money if you just get the DB37 connectors and not the pre-assembled harness's. Grab some wire and make your own.
However, there are additional components (like the map daddy) that you must add if you want those particular features. The MAP that comes on board the standard MS can handle quite a bit of boost, so I question just how much boost are you planning to run? lol. It is still a competitive cost per capability compared to other "big name" EMS systems.
Thanks that saved me $68 so an even trade for the map daddy. I was wanting the map daddy becasue I will be boosting up to 28-30psi to reach my 600whp goal. The standard one was 2.5bar which is roughly 22psi. right? Building the harnesses is a great idea. Thats another $145 savings so you have gotten me down to $555 from $700+. Sweet. Anything else? Will be ordering the kit tomorrow so LMK.
Thanks
Randy
I just looked at the db37 connector. I would just use one of those as compared to the two connectors that they show in the pic for the assembled MS3 in this link?
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/...ansion-v357-assembled-brushed-case-p-476.html
Thanks
Randy
I just looked at the db37 connector. I would just use one of those as compared to the two connectors that they show in the pic for the assembled MS3 in this link?
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/...ansion-v357-assembled-brushed-case-p-476.html
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I'm not sure about the MS3 kit, whether it comes with the DB37 connector. It should but you might want to confirm. I know my MS2 kit came with the DB37 connector and I have to make my own cable with that connector.
I believe the MS3 is essentially the same V3.0 PCB with an upgraded "brain" (processor), a few other added components and the MS3X is the additional PCB with added components allowing sequential fuel injection, coil-on-plug etc.. Again I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there is a different additional cable that connects the MS3X board to the main MS3 PCB. You should be able to get just the cable ends (connectors) and make your own MS3X to MS3 PCB cable, but you may want to confirm with DIYautotune to be sure.
The DB37 is the main connecting cable from the MS to your vehicle's engine harness. There is a BOB for our cars the DIY sells (plugs into the stock wiring harness), but if you are going with full sequential fuel injection and a few other options, that will still require some substantial re-wiring of the stock harness.
I'm not sure the limits of the MAP sensor, that you may want to also confirm with DIY. The specs you mentioned sound about right (2.5 bar).
I believe the MS3 is essentially the same V3.0 PCB with an upgraded "brain" (processor), a few other added components and the MS3X is the additional PCB with added components allowing sequential fuel injection, coil-on-plug etc.. Again I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there is a different additional cable that connects the MS3X board to the main MS3 PCB. You should be able to get just the cable ends (connectors) and make your own MS3X to MS3 PCB cable, but you may want to confirm with DIYautotune to be sure.
The DB37 is the main connecting cable from the MS to your vehicle's engine harness. There is a BOB for our cars the DIY sells (plugs into the stock wiring harness), but if you are going with full sequential fuel injection and a few other options, that will still require some substantial re-wiring of the stock harness.
I'm not sure the limits of the MAP sensor, that you may want to also confirm with DIY. The specs you mentioned sound about right (2.5 bar).
Well it's done. The hard part is over. I just ordered the ms3 kit and ms3x daughter board with the map daddy 4 bar map sensor. Since I don't have anyone in the area to help if problems should arise I bought the jim stim so I can test as I go. Should receive the kit by Monday so next week will be build time. Thanks to this thread and special thanks to MPR for helping me. I will start an MS build thread and post as I go if anyone else should be interested.
Randy
Randy