Time For The Single/Stinger

[apexi287]

There is no way to adjust timing mechanically on a 1JZ as it runs off the cam triggers. Since you have full timing manipulation IE: a standalone all timing retard will be done electronically in the timing map.

It sounds to me like your coils may just be old, I've heard of 1/2JZ coils making absolutely absurd power with no boost. My much weaker VVTI coils made over 675whp with a .26 gap.

What are your plugs gaped at now, and what octane are you running? Your numbers don't sound bad.

I also need to see the dyno chart

I believe I found the dwell sweet spot at 2.25ms and a decent igntion MAP that it should run well on, I can get a dyno sheet today, do you just need the power and torque curves or would you like A/F as well?

It was almost 10psi and up I would break up and that was from stock gap all the way down to .022. I dropped the gap to .014 with bkr7es plugs and it made a solid pull to 7.5k rpm for the first time, kinda sputtering up top some, but it would still get there. The highest HP number was 440hp at about 16-17psi, but the upper curve was choppy like it was still missing/sputtering slightly which it was. I raised the gap to .016 and it felt a little better but I couldn't watch the change as I was off the dyno at that gap. I'm thinking .018 may be were I need to set the gap at I dunno why so low tho, but .022 it can't even get passed 4k without breaking up horribly. .018 may just be were it needs to be for strongest spark and most efficient burn. With this DLI though I don't understand why so low, I wouldn't understand why all my coils would take a shit all at once either.

Would you attempt the shrink wrap around the coils, or just bite the bullet and pay for all brand new ones? You wouldn't possibly know the specs for checking the coils would you? My cyl. 1 coil is brand new so I'll have something to reference off of. Also I'm running pump gas 93octane sunoco.

 

[enjoi.this]

Sure sounds like you have weak coils. The idea has been kicking around for sometime now and been put off as if it were something in the tune. With it working better using that tight plug gap could point at weak coils too. Seems as though its time to bite the bullet on this one

 

[apexi287]

Sure sounds like you have weak coils. The idea has been kicking around for sometime now and been put off as if it were something in the tune. With it working better using that tight plug gap could point at weak coils too. Seems as though its time to bite the bullet on this one

Yeah it's true it's most likely the issue I believe the tune is almost spot on, I just got done pulling the other 5 coils that aren't new. I shrink wrapped all the stems and epoxied the case's where there were cracks that I didn't see before and about to see how that does, may just help a little but I see new coils in the near near future:3d_frown:.

 

[apexi287]

Well the epoxy and heat shrink didn't help, I have a dyno sheet from the pulls and it's definitely looking like coils:nono:. I'll upload them later and if anyone could take a look at them to help confirm that'd be great.

 

[apexi287]

I'm thinking coils, it's fine WOT climbing boost up to 4.5k then in the graph begins to break up all the way to 7.5k. Here is the graph, pull is in 3rd from 2k rpm. One was done at 8* static timing the other at 10*(named accordingly) no one had a timing light that seemed to give a good reading and it's where the car seems to run the best, holds steady idle good cruise and acceleration and good A/F 8* looks a little better I think.

Graph...We couldn't get the tach signal to work so it's based on speed and power.

Here is the data logs as well..

 

[10secdream]

Is there anyone local that would be willing to swap coils so you can see if that is the issue? Before biting the bullet on new coils I would see if you can borrow some and hunt down this issue. Like I said you shouldn't have to gap that low at all. My 1JZ coils have around 35k miles on them and they seem to hold 11 psi fine at 0.028 gap and I have no ignition breakup even to 7800rpm.

 

[apexi287]

Is there anyone local that would be willing to swap coils so you can see if that is the issue? Before biting the bullet on new coils I would see if you can borrow some and hunt down this issue. Like I said you shouldn't have to gap that low at all. My 1JZ coils have around 35k miles on them and they seem to hold 11 psi fine at 0.028 gap and I have no ignition breakup even to 7800rpm.

Unfortunately not, everyone around here has a 7m. My coils though have about 70k on them compared to your 35k. The way it drives during cruise compared to under high load is significantly different it feels very good during cruise but once under load it just misses like crazy. i wish I had someone around with good coils I could test, I'm not looking forward to $400+ coils:cry:.

 

[bigaaron]

Well it helped in terms of free rev and accel but at .8125ms of dwell. Once I got it all in I went to my dwell settings and changed it to 3.5ms and the tach signal instantly went crazy on me and the engine duplicated it at idle, rev and cruise:aigo:.

I cannot get anything decent unless I run a dwell of 2.5ms and lower, but it'll still hesitate almost and break up under load like the coils aren't getting charged enough, but 3.5ms is like it's waay too long:ugh:. All my settings I believe are good, the ignition is just kicking my ass it doesn't seem to like anything no setting gets me something good, consitant and smooth.

Just curious, what kind of plugs are you guys running? I'm using NGK BKR7ES i believe and they are gaped at .022, should I try a different type of plug::shrug::? What do your guys timing maps look like, I will upload mine on here later if anyone would care to take a look:1zhelp:.

The dwell needs to be at 2.1ms to work correctly. The ignitor determines the dwell, not the standalone. If the pulses are too long, it will have issues at high rpm because the pulses are too close together for the ignitor to function correctly.

I starting using only platinum or irridium plugs on the 1jz's, the copper sometimes had issues with idle and under boost running on the stock ignitor.

You also might want to look into running some type of cdi ignition instead of the stock ignitor!

The Stinger has been proven to work with the stock ignitor and 1JZ coils to over 550whp. Above that a cdi ignition would be a good idea.
The stock coil packs are really picky even on stock 1jz engines, and electrical issues are common. Battery and chassis grounds are also very important.

Cracks in the legs of the coil packs is also a big problem, we started putting 1" shrink on the legs to help insulate them from arcing to te head under boost.

 

[apexi287]

The dwell needs to be at 2.1ms to work correctly. The ignitor determines the dwell, not the standalone. If the pulses are too long, it will have issues at high rpm because the pulses are too close together for the ignitor to function correctly.

I starting using only platinum or irridium plugs on the 1jz's, the copper sometimes had issues with idle and under boost running on the stock ignitor.

You also might want to look into running some type of cdi ignition instead of the stock ignitor!

The Stinger has been proven to work with the stock ignitor and 1JZ coils to over 550whp. Above that a cdi ignition would be a good idea.
The stock coil packs are really picky even on stock 1jz engines, and electrical issues are common. Battery and chassis grounds are also very important.

Cracks in the legs of the coil packs is also a big problem, we started putting 1" shrink on the legs to help insulate them from arcing to te head under boost.

Yeah it began to run a lot better once I changed the dwell to 2.125ms that's where I have had it for a couple weeks now. I didn't know the plugs I was running were copper I was told they were a platinum plug, what's the part number for the NGK iridium and platinum?

As for a CDI ignition, what's out there that'll work with the stinger? As for the stock coils they had the cracks in the case's so I epoxied them and shrink wrapped the stems but it didn't help really at all, and since mine have about 75k miles on them I figured it's time for new ones.

I figure with new coils and now probably changing the plugs to iridium or platinum it'll cure my break up under boost. I at least want to get 500hp with a smooth graph and no more breaking up, the car just feels like it wants to pull soo bad I just can't yet:aigo:!

 

[Boostedmkiii]

Aaron, 1jz and 2jz spark plugs are interchangable... Go get some NGK Iridium IX plugs for a...... lets say 1996 MKIV.

NGK # - BKR6EIX-11
Most parts store retailers will probably use: 3764.

Just double check to make sure the NGK numbers match

 

[apexi287]

Aaron, 1jz and 2jz spark plugs are interchangable... Go get some NGK Iridium IX plugs for a...... lets say 1996 MKIV.

NGK # - BKR6EIX-11
Most parts store retailers will probably use: 3764.

Just double check to make sure the NGK numbers match

Yeah all spark plugs technically are its just what it likes, and my 1J isn't liking the coppers at all. I'm about to go run and get some IX, I didn'y have the part number but now I do:icon_bigg.

 

[suprahero]

I tried the irridiums in my car, but it didn't like them at all. It idled a lot better, but anything over 4500rpm and it broke up ridiculously.

Of all the problems I've had with my car, it seems breaking up in the higher rpms is my main fault. I also have the HKS dli and new coilpacks. The new coilpacks didn't fix my problem and I doubt it fixes yours, but I couldn't swear to it.
I run the NGK 4644 which replaced the NGK 6097's. I have to gap mine to .022 and it still breaks up at the top of the run.

On your datalogs, it looks like yours are real choppy because your boost was coming and going. It varies quite a bit and that will make the curve look horrible.
Also, I think your timing is too high in the higher rpms. I wouldn't go over 19* of timing and it looks like you're at 22 in some spots. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[apexi287]

I tried the irridiums in my car, but it didn't like them at all. It idled a lot better, but anything over 4500rpm and it broke up ridiculously.

Of all the problems I've had with my car, it seems breaking up in the higher rpms is my main fault. I also have the HKS dli and new coilpacks. The new coilpacks didn't fix my problem and I doubt it fixes yours, but I couldn't swear to it.
I run the NGK 4644 which replaced the NGK 6097's. I have to gap mine to .022 and it still breaks up at the top of the run.

On your datalogs, it looks like yours are real choppy because your boost was coming and going. It varies quite a bit and that will make the curve look horrible.
Also, I think your timing is too high in the higher rpms. I wouldn't go over 19* of timing and it looks like you're at 22 in some spots. Good luck and keep us posted.

Great man thanks for all the insight. I'm worried the coils won't completely eliminate the problem either but with the plugs you are running that I am running currently I cannot get a gap higher than .016 which isn't right I should be able to have a mid .020 gap:nono:. I just went and picked up some iridium's which are 6418's that I will drop in with the new coils as well and see what happens. It does look like I'm going to need to pull some timing some up top, but before when I did that a couple days ago it didn't help much at all.

I'm gonna have to give a couple more things a try and also figure out why my boost fluctuates the way it does. I'm using the same BC as I was before with no problem (Hallman). I hope it's not a waste gate issue, I may have to get another spring or find another pressure source to apply to the top nipple on the gate.

 

[RacerXJ220]

The GT40R with the 1.06 is an excellent turbo, fun street turbo.

I love the way it sounds.

Hope you find out what's wrong. I have tried some iridiums, and they just didn't cut it.

 

[apexi287]

For those of you saying Iridiums didn't cut it what are you running how did you get the breaking up to stop? That's what I'm looking for I hate shotgunning parts and as of now it doesn't like these copper plugs at all anything over .016 it hates. Maybe it's due to my coils we will find out, but how are you guys curing this issue? Are you guys just trying different plugs until it runs the best? I can't imagine everyone with a large turbo on a 1J having this issue or why do it?

 

[10secdream]

I find it odd that you are having issues and I am not. My turbo is a similar size and I am on stock coils with NGK 4644 Gapped to 0.028 and have run up to 14psi without anyblow out at all. I am even on 18 year old coilpack wires and waiting for the new ones to get here.

 

[RacerXJ220]

For those of you saying Iridiums didn't cut it what are you running how did you get the breaking up to stop?

The iridiums just did not work well, even when they were gapped to .25. I run the NGK coppers at .27, and they run great.

I just got off the dyno myself, and one of the issues we had was a miss in the upper RPM which looks remarkably like what you're experiencing, but it was only one dip.

This was during the first baseline run at 11 PSI. We changed the ignition pickup and the problem went away after the third run. What interested me was when I upped the boost to .95 bar the problem went away. It was really weird.

Are you having the same hiccups on the street?

 

[AndyMac]

hey mate,

have you checked the coil packs for hairline cracks? I had the same issue in my soarer when I went a large single. I pulled all of the coil packs and coated them with a hardening silicon. This helps avoid arching and get enough spark.

It make a big difference however ultimately if it starts to do miss and higher RPM it generally only gets worse. As a bandaid fix though I would def try repairing any hairline cracks on the coil packs with silicon or nailpolish remover.

 

[Turbo Drifter]

How did you make your timming map? You seem to be running a lot of timing in the top end and all over for that mater. Did you slowly add timing in small amounts till the power stopped increasing? I cant see how you would have been able to do that with the graph all over like that.

 

[enjoi.this]

Just throwing this out there but have you tried rolling back the timing to a less agressive standpoint like turbo is asking? Have you listened to the engine to see if its knocking with all that timing under full boost? It seems your tune is correct but the only thing that differs from others is the really advanced timing. Try different combinations in your tuning just for shits and giggles to see if theres any difference.