If you are using studs, please make sure you clean the holes out super super good. Bottom tap, toothpick, Q-tip, everything you can think of...just make sure there is no junk at the bottom of the hole. I would hate to see a thread in a few weeks of you saying you cracked your block and are going to a 1j...
Throwing on a Driftmotion CT2657trim - Headgasket First??
- Thread starter 755hp
- Start date
3p141592654;2044907 said:
I've always been told they are TTY. Either way I would never risk reusing them over saving acouple bucks.
There's no harm in reusing stock head bolts anymore than reusing ARPs. Just check that the lengths are in spec and not damaged, same thing you would do with ARPs. The OEM head bolts are very high quality.
Thank you man, I appreciate this. My path of acquiring this Supra (my first Supra) has not come easy/quick. It took time, patience, time, learning, time and oh, patience and more learning to FINALLY get my Supra in October 2013.Blackmk3;2044915 said:
I've been researching (daily) about Supras since 2006 (got my driver's license); started on Supraforums 2008, Supramania 2012 and recently CelicaSupraforums 2015 winter. Then I started college/working part-time a while after however, I could never afford one living in NYC (insurance/parking cost a sinful amount of money). Then I graduate from my two year college and transferred to a four year university upstate NY 2012 fall where insurance/parking cost were affordable/no longer an issue....FINALLY, a year later, I got my 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo 5spd Targa (completely stock/never modified) all for a price that won't even be enough for a down payment on any cheap new car on the roads today (very cheap/bang for buck price).
I say all that because there hasn't been a day that has gone by (all these years waiting) where I've not researched/browsed something related to Supras on the internet; thus, I've learned a lot from forums/stories/videos and car meets. I would attend Supra meets in Englishtown NJ Raceway Park....all while pulling up in my Mom's Infiinti G35 sedan (not a Supra) but yet to a Supra meet. My point....I've made strides toward getting/learning about this car. And now that I have one, still running, with slight mods and on its way to a 7M BPU setup, I desperately want to get this RIGHT. I do not want to be a clown with a busted 7M....I wanna LIVE, I wanna feel the boost, rise to new heights, surpass that which cannot be surpassed....I....want....to....achieve.....S-U-P-R-A!
Therefore, I'm searching for guidance/advice, weighing my options and trying to make the right choice. And based on what I've seen over the years about 7Ms, their headgaskets SHOULD/NEED to be accounted for before dialing up the boost (especially on mine w/ six-digit mileage and a future 57trim BPU setup). Though my Supra has six-digit mileage, it has been stock it's whole life (I'm the fourth owner) therefore, I have a little reason to believe its not been "beat/abused" on....except for my dumbass driving 2-3 miles w/ little/no coolant. Besides that, I'm hoping my 7M has a shot at making some power (~350whp).
Thus, I move onward to a headgasket job starting this weekend. I don't know if I'll make another thread or maybe, I'll just use this one, but I'm thinking to keep you guys posted (pics/progress)....especially, if I run into unexpected surprises (hopefully not). I've never pulled an engine head before....I guess my roommate and I are going to have to "He-man" the 7M head and just straight up lift it off/on the block"; honestly, I'd rather have an engine lift....but then again, I'd rather not put a hole in my pocket seeing as my tax-return funds have already burned as a result of these BPU mods/upgrades.
Sigh....but yea, thanks, I appreciate it; I am trying to get this right man.
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755hp;2044847 said:
you can install the studs without a engine lift. if anything you could unbolt the trans mount and jack up the back of the trans that might help but most people thread in the last couple after the heads on. the studs have an allen key on the top. all the washers have to be in the head too first if the cams are in still. then you have to wonder did i clean the threads good enough. did i over or under tighten studs. and so on. really its a pita. ive done it and don't mind doing it but theres a time and place. and for what you're trying to do i would just inspect your stock bolts and if theyre good just use those. for a full build yeah use studs but thats not what you're doing. save the money cause its unnecessary of your stock bolts are good. the combo of stock bolts on felpro headgasket with a stock bottom end is really safe. cause if it does detonate bad it will most likely just blow a hole in the hg instead of the piston.
Hmm, maybe I should call up Aaron at DM and ask if I can return the Arp studs for bolts instead?? I hear you on the stock bolts though. For ease for installation, it sounds like the bolts are better to deal with however, for a "peace of mind", I would not trust the stock bolts (unknown history). Suppose they were retorque'd by the second owner of my Supra (who was a mechanic); yielding?? If that is the case I feel Arp bolts would be a better solution (fresh start), no??black89t;2044968 said:
Thing is, I would be returning both the Toyota stock HG and Arp studs to DM when they'll be here already tomorrow. This Felpro headgasket....has it proven to be stronger than stock?? Will it conform to the uneven surface of the block as well as a stock HG??
Then again, the other part of me says....I'll be good w/ an OEM headgasket and Arp studs; just gotta struggle through and do it right (studs). Lol
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Nevermind those questions about the Felpro HG; I'm reading a link someone sent me a few posts back. Its a "PermaTorque" gasket made w.r.t OEM standards; looks like it doesn't require a re-torque either.black89t;2044968 said:
Felpro: http://fme-cat.com/overlays/part-de...ylinder Head Gasket&lu=1992 TOYOTA SUPRA&vin=
Lol Well, hopefully you will see a thread of me building a 1j Mk3 Supra at some point but not because of a crack 7M block or even in my current 1988 (earlier 86'-88' gen Mk3) Supra. Yes, I wanna do a 1jz Mk3 Supra but thats far from now and it would have to be in an 89'+ body style'd Supra; and I prefer it be a hardtop (having experienced a lack of chassis stiffness in my current targa now)....shoot, w/ the 25+year old import laws, I might as well get a RHD 1jz Mk3 straight from Japan where the drivetrain specs are slightly tuned/gear'd toward the 1jz's power-delivery. Anyway....wishful thinking right now. Straight up, the 7M is teaching me a lot right now and its getting me "involved" whereas, a 1jz or any JZ-series engine would just have you throw on a T4 turbo, fuel mods and a piggyback and make 500+whp easily. Not so much with the 7M though; lots of preparation must be done before hand thus, it gets you actively involved in building/preparing it for more Hp (you learn things about the engine and its characteristics).DeMoN2318;2044919 said:
But yea, I've seen multiple HG job videos on YouTube where the mechanics recommend a thorough cleaning of the bolts holes. For the block to crack lacking from the bolt holes being cleaned, I'm guessing additional debris, improper stud depth installation (bottom) including the applied torque spec from the stud is enough to unevenly distribute the force in the bolt hole causing it to concentrate in one area and....a crack can form.
Damn....all these years learning about HGs on 7Ms and I never came across these facts. Guess its only till you "DO" sh*t is when you actually "learn".
id say the toyota hg should be fine when torqued down more than a measly 58flbls. i personally haven't used one before though. i have used the felpro with great success. and with the studs im sure dm will trade them out for bolts. even if you have to pay shipping its not a big deal really like 5 bucks in a flat rate box compared to buying a bottomless tap tons brake clean and all the time it takes to clean the threads. its the part of the threads that the stock bolt wasn't touching thats the nightmare too. for the bolts the first portion of the threads usually just need a wipe down sprayed with brake clean and rewipe till clean then boom theyre ready to go.
I'm also worried about not to allow dirt/debris to fall into the oil/water holes (especially oil holes). I'm thinking to use masking tape and clean one piston/deck area at a time while the rest will be completely sealed/covered.black89t;2044976 said:
It isn't called "perma-torque" for nothing....Federal Mogul makes manufacturer sealing parts for big name auto manufacturers and then put it in the "AC Delco" or "Motorcraft" package.
755hp;2044977 said:
yeah that will work. the oil feed is what you really don't want to stuff to fall down. a piece of paper towel can plug it nice. but really if a little stuff falls down the oil drains or coolant jacket don't worry about it. i like to leave the oil and coolant in then drain it after the head on to clear out the little debris thats in there. and don't go crazy cleaning the pistons. like they don't need to be shinny. if you can get most the carbon off that will be fine. soaking the top in some gas works good to break up the carbon. they will be covered like before in10 miles lol. thats just what engines do. it should be like a film though not caked on. if its caked you'd have be burning lots of oil. anyway good luck!
Got my Arp Studs and Toyota OEM headgasket today. Opened up the Arp box, took a look at the torque specs and....what??! 90lbft?! All these years on the forums I usually see numbers ranging from 70-80lbft (occasionally I'll see 85lbft here/there) but rarely 90lbft.
I can understand this for an MLS HG but an OEM one?? Is 90lbft too high for a OEM Toyota gasket?? Would 90lbft crush the head gasket??
I can understand this for an MLS HG but an OEM one?? Is 90lbft too high for a OEM Toyota gasket?? Would 90lbft crush the head gasket??
90 lb/ft is required to get the bolt into its elastic region at its strongest point. They are anticipating you not using that head gasket with studs. Do you know what argument by repetition is? Ignore it in the Supra community.
So far I started pulling apart my engine Friday (worked through the night till 2pm the next day) preparing it for the HG job. I'll get back on it Thursday or Friday night and drop my 7M head off at the machine shop on Saturday. Here's a few pictures of what going on.
However, I just realized I'm going to need a "straight edge" to check for warps in the block. Any suggestions/links on a decently priced one??
However, I just realized I'm going to need a "straight edge" to check for warps in the block. Any suggestions/links on a decently priced one??
running a straight edge over it would be nice if you can barrow one but really the chance that the block is warped enough for a composite hg to not seal is slim to none. every day hunderds of cars have the hg changed at shops and do you think they tear down the whole motor to machine the deck when doing a hg? cause they don't. unless you over heated the living shit out of it its most likely fine. ive done quite a few hg jobs and never machined the deck and they've all been fine and lasted a long time. heres a pic when i did the one in my first supra. bought the car it rod knocked like two months later. then got a used replacement motor which had a bhg after like a month then i totaled the car then i wanted to drive it still so fixed the hg thats where this pic is in my timeline of supra madness :aigo: it never gets old though! on my second one now (not counting parts cars)
Hmm, I don't know man. I say this with shame....but I drove home 2-3 miles with no coolant last October; it overheated pretty nastily. Even if I get an aluminum cheap straight edge ruler from Harbor Freight or something, I think that will be better than nothing....otherwise....yea, I don't wanna think about it.black89t;2045388 said:running a straight edge over it would be nice if you can barrow one but really the chance that the block is warped enough for a composite hg to not seal is slim to none. every day hunderds of cars have the hg changed at shops and do you think they tear down the whole motor to machine the deck when doing a hg? cause they don't. unless you over heated the living shit out of it its most likely fine. ive done quite a few hg jobs and never machined the deck and they've all been fine and lasted a long time. heres a pic when i did the one in my first supra. bought the car it rod knocked like two months later. then got a used replacement motor which had a bhg after like a month then i totaled the car then i wanted to drive it still so fixed the hg thats where this pic is in my timeline of supra madness :aigo: it never gets old though! on my second one now (not counting parts cars)
By the way, can you circle/mark where the oil hole is in the block in that picture you posted there?? I was looking at the lubricating section of the TSRM and it appears the oil hole is somewhere in the front of the block and goes up to the head. The reason is, I want to make sure I don't get any dirt/debris in those holes as I'm hitting the surface with a gasket scrapper (or even flat sanding - not likely, heard too much crap about it).