The Madness Begins... 90 N/A-T Build

[Backlash2032]

The stock Toyota gasket will be fine for what I want. I'm not going for over 300-350 horsepower, and when I do (which will not be for a long time) I will rebuild the engine then.

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[Onoitsaldrin]

Very clean supra goodluck

 

[Backlash2032]

So, I've decided to go through and atleast put new rings in the engine. I'll mic the bottom end and see if just a standard set of bearings would be enough, or if I'd need select fit bearings. If I'm lucky, I'll be able to pick up the Clevite-77 bearings off Driftmotion and put those in, and put in a new set of rings and be happy. Also, I might put in a metal head gasket if I can sell my computer for a decent amount of money.

So I have a question. Are 7M-GE and 7M-GTE rings the same? I know the pistons are different C/Rs, but I dunno about the rings. There were only the 7M-GTE rings on driftmotion.

 

[mecevans]

Rings are the same, gaps are different.

 

[Backlash2032]

So I'd be okay running gte rings on ge pistons?

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[Backlash2032]

Sorry for the lack of updates, but so far, I completely disassembled the head, cleaned all of the valves, hand lapped all of them, and sent the head to be decked. Also found out that the head was a virgin head (116mm, never been decked before) so I'm happy about that. I dropped the pan on the engine as of today, and was happy with what I saw. No sludge, no metal shavings, nothing. Just clean.

Onto the pictures

Sadly, the block is not completely virgin. It has had the oil pan removed at least once, otherwise there would be no cork gasket. I need to measure the deck height to the main bearing saddle to see if it's been decked before though..

Anyway to tell if this is a GTE, or GE pump?

 

[Backlash2032]

Sorry for the lack of updates, my phone died on me, and I had to get a warranty return from Verizon. Anyway, I completely tore down the block and am going to be sending it out, along with the head, to be decked for a MHG. Do it once, and do it right, right? Once the block and head get back from the machine shop, I plan on completely re assembling it, with the same bearings, and plastigauging it. If the clearance is in spec, ill throw a normal sized set of toyota bearings on it (Yes, i know they are select fit, and I've already found the numbers. ) If they are out of spec.. Well, I'll come here for advice. But if the world is perfect, it will be fine.

Now in the mean time, I've begun painting all my miscellaneous goodies. Starting with the valve covers. I drilled and tapped the holes for the baffles so I can use screws in them, so I can remove them when I sandblast. I decided on red and silver covers. I think it should really make the engine pay pop. The red is almost the same as 3E5, theres just a little more orange in it.

I still have yet to clear it, but that's essentially the finished product. I like the way it came out.

 

[Backlash2032]

Just sent the block and head to be decked for a metal head gasket, honed, and drilled and tapped for a second knock sensor.

The machine shop was working on a 2000 horsepower blown 560 cube Ford.. I think my 7ms in good hands.

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[Backlash2032]

Grrr.. Cleaning/sandblasting and priming and painting all the little things is such a PITA! I hope it all turns out well..

 

[Backlash2032]

WHY can't people do things correctly?? So heres the story! I go to pick up the engine from the machine shop. Everything looks great. A little bit of discoloration on the deck, but according to the machine shop guy, its just fine for a MHG. Everything is superb. I pay him 280 dollars for all the machine work (decking head and block, honing, cleaning, and drilling and tapping the second knock sensor) Then I get it home. I was getting ready to paint the block. I was taking everything off the block. I get to the knock sensor, and I notice it is in the hole that he drilled, instead of the hole that it was in when i sent it in. I figured, alright. He was testing how it fit.

NOPE! It turns out that he tapped the hole to some unknown thread pitch, probably standard threads... Even though I told him it was M12x1.25, AND he had the knock sensor! Instead of listening to me, he figured "Oh, close enough, I'll tap it with this!" and went ahead and tapped it, took the knock sensor and powered it into the threads, ruining the threads on the knock sensor, and more importantly, never told me about this, and STILL CHARGED ME. AND he also didn't use a bottoming tap, so the knock sensor wont even seat down onto the block.

SO. Running cost of this mistake.
$20 for the job
$40 for helicoils
$180 for a knock sensor

I know many of you will say "Oh, whats $240 dollars. Forgive, forget, and move on." But to a highschool kid? That's quite a bit to just forget about. Any advice on how to remedy this, or are helicoils my only option?

Also, My head gasket calculations come to 2.08mm for a head gasket. .028 inches removed from the head and block combined, which is .7112 in MM. .71+1.37=2.08. Correct in my calculations?

If so, would I be okay with going with the cometic 1.9mm head gasket?

 

[supraguy@aol]

No, we wouldn't say 'forgive and forget' about a supposed professional screwing up your block, especially when you TOLD him what to do and he had the tools for it.
You should definitely call him on it!

 

[Backlash2032]

No, we wouldn't say 'forgive and forget' about a supposed professional screwing up your block, especially when you TOLD him what to do and he had the tools for it.
You should definitely call him on it!

I will tomorrow. By the time I got home and unloaded everything and found the problem, his shop was already closed.

 

[Backlash2032]

I will tomorrow. By the time I got home and unloaded everything and found the problem, his shop was already closed.

So. I've come to a crossroads in my build. I called up Toyota, and had them give me a quote on all main bearings, all rod bearings, and the thrust washers. $440 dollars.

SO. Heres my predicament. I haven't checked the rod bearing sizes, but I know all the main bearings are number 3 bearings, except for the 6th main, which is a number 4 bearing. Can I buy a standard set of bearings, then get the number 4 bearing from toyota? Or is that a no no?

Also, here are all my plastigauging numbers. Everything is about .051 mm

No. 1 bearing

No. 2 bearing

No. 3 bearing

No. 4 bearing

No. 5 bearing

No. 6 bearing

No. 7 bearing

Also, I just called my local toyota dealer, but the prices for rod and main bearings were the same as www.toyotaworld.com, I never check the thrust washers on toyota world, but they were 80 dollars for the set. Any ideas on what to do?

 

[Backlash2032]

Nobody?

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[toyotanos]

I would say go with a 2mm head gasket unless you already have the 1.9mm one in your hands.

As for the bearings, if you don't want to go through the select-fit process, just order a standard size bearing set and install them. Check the clearances and see what they come up as- move forward once you know what the std set came up as!

 

[Backlash2032]

Could I buy a standard set of bearings and then one toyota select fit for the size 4 main bearing?

I might have to double check the prices at champion toyota.. According to the TSRM EPC its only 15 or so dollars for main bearings. Each of corse.

EDIT: I've pretty much decided to just bite the bullet and get the Toyota bearings. Its way more expensive, but it leaves me reassured that my engine will go back together, and stay together the way Toyota engineered it to. Now the important part. Should I get one size smaller bearings, to make the clearences tighter? or do you think that getting fresh, same sized bearings would put it back into TSRM spec? .051 is actually still within spec, but its almost out of spec. only .002 mm away from out of spec. I would assume new bearings would bring the specs close to the middle?

 

[toyotanos]

All you have to do is follow the factory bearing sizing procedure in the repair manual. There's stamped numbers on the crank and block- comparing the numbers against the manual will tell you what size bearings you should need.

Additionally, you need to triple check to make sure the cap surfaces are extremely clean behind the bearings- I've seen that mess up readings more often than it should.

 

[Backlash2032]

Well I've done that, im just wondering if new bearings would get the specs back to the middle (because of the wear of the crank shaft), or if I would need to get a different size of bearings.

 

[Backlash2032]

Bump

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[Backlash2032]

Bad news. The machine shop agreed to fix the knock sensor, and replace the sensor they mangled. They heated the block, then welded it. And cracked the block. The good news is they're replacing the block, and doing all the machine work free of charge.. Maybe the next block wont need to be decked 20 thou to clean up.

So if anybody has a 7m block for sale, that's in good condition.. Im in the market for one. 7M-GE, or GTE, doesn't matter. Just needs to be in good condition. Never spun a bearing, pref. never had a blown head gasket