The $2008 Grassroots challenge build-up thread

[Poodles]

There isn't much you can do that wouldn't possibly endanger your engine.

You could try drilling out the hole and backing the screw out all the way on the AFM, it might help and i don't think you'll go lean enough to hurt anything...

 

[Yblegal91t]

Manual boost controller at this point will put you at fuel cut. You can build one of those for $10 in parts.

To get around the fuel cut, you have a couple options. The best way is to find an AFM housing from a Lexus 4 liter V8 and swap your AFM electronics into it, then source some 550cc injectors - preferably really cheap from an old Rx7, which came with compatible injectors for a while. The Lexus AFM flows 25% more air for the same airflow readings, and the 550cc injectors flow 25% more fuel, thus balancing each other out for the most part. Scaling the AFM signal like this gets dangerous eventually (it doesn't allow for any timing map changes) but at this point you should be fine.

You missed a step and could have fit into budget^

Now you need some better air cooling... this might cost you some money, but it's probably worth it to find a better intercooler and have your welder fab up some intercooler pipes out of steel.

 

[Figit090]

bad luck on fuel cut! but great great job on the car, it looks awesome!! I'm so glad to see it in this year's run!

I'm also intrigued by realizing this year's event is sponsored by the company that made my new tires sittin' in my living room....neat!

Good luck with the other events!

 

[j3pz]

so you guys have fun? what are you gonna do now thats the event has passed?

 

[skipbarber]

We had a blast! At least for myself(Avi), I can say it's the most fun I have ever had at ANY motorsports event. I think the thing that really made if fun, was that everybody was on the same level. You know how at any given event, there are the newbz who spent $5000 prepping their race car, and then there are the teams that spent $100,000 prepping their race car? Well the way I see it, it's highly unlikely that these two teams would be chillin in each others tents, sharing tricks, tips, and build strategies. At the GRM event, everyone spent $2008 or less! There was no, 'I'm rich and can afford to blow any other car out of the water'. We were all just tossing them out there to see what they could do!

When we had major fuel cut issues and only managed a 16.6 in a TURBO Supra(!), nobody was like, 'That car is lame as hell'. We got mad props from everyone on how well we pulled our build together, and encouragement to do better next year.

So that said, We will DEF be running her in Grassroots $2009. We learned a ton about what we need to do to be a real competitor, we learned a lot about how our car handles, and what mods we need to do for next year. Some of the things we have planned so far include:

-Repainting the car for that show quality finish
-mad wire tuckage to clean up the bay
-more roll cage action (door bars, perhaps front strut tower integration w/
front strut brace)
-Upgraded sway bars (Anyone selling cheap?? good cause :naughty: )
-Megasquirt tunage (Probably our first an most important upgrade for next
year)
-Better tires (Hoosiers FTW!)
-oh, and we def gotta port that wastegate!

Now the only trick will be fitting this all in our left over budget! Some of the stuff can be subtracted I assume. Like our current paint job, I think if we remove what we put on, we should be able to subtract that from our budget and start over. We will also be trying to sell more stuff to recoup more money.

So thats the plan! Might be a bit before we get that fire under our asses to start working on her again, especially since it's getting cold outside, but we have plans for auto-Xing her this coming year to hone our mad driving skillz.

Any contenders out there?? I HIGHLY recommend trying it out! For broke motorsports fans, it's the most fun you'll have in 2009.

-Avi

 

[Figit090]

That sounds great! I really hope you can do well with your future mods budget wise!



I can't wait to get the issue with you guys, are there more pics online? I forgot what issue you'll be in again...damnit...lol

 

[te72]

Hmm... The Mk2 I just picked up would actually make a pretty decent contender for something like this, all I would need is to find is a healthy stock-ish 7m

 

[dok33]

Congrats on actually making it there and finishing! That's a win itself.

We'll be there next year with the Festiva, hopefully with turbo and nitrous

 

[Poodles]

-wiring tuck will make it hard to repair
-megasquirt is a hassle compared to tried and true methods (MAFT-Pro, SAFC, ect)

K.I.S.S.

 

[dok33]

-wiring tuck will make it hard to repair
-megasquirt is a hassle compared to tried and true methods (MAFT-Pro, SAFC, ect)

K.I.S.S.

MS isn't that bad, we had the Festiva wired and running in a few weeks and none of us had ever wired a car or messed with engine management. Plus you can get a MS-I kit for <$150 and have full tuning control vs alot more for MAFT (not SAFC necessarily) with less control.

That said, I'm running a SAFC in my Supra I got off ebay for $100:biglaugh:

 

[MK3.0dudeman]

Looks like you had a blast.I wish I could enter

 

[SuicideSuprA70]

That's awesome man.

Great work!

 

[skipbarber]

-wiring tuck will make it hard to repair
-megasquirt is a hassle compared to tried and true methods (MAFT-Pro, SAFC, ect)

K.I.S.S.

One of us is really good with electrical, in fact, Ive yet to find an electrical issue in any car that I couldnt solve. Wiring is by far my forte. That being said, the MS system costs as much or less than the 'tried and true methods' yet boasts several more features. Afterall, it is a standalone. Considering the car isn't daily driven, I see no reason why we shouldnt go with a standalone system. Besides, I can actually see it costing less since Id be putting the board together myself and selling the stock turbo 5 speed ECU.. the way i see it, we still are keeping it simple.

 

[Poodles]

Very very few people have run a MS on our engines. The issue with it being a standalone means you'll have to start from scratch on the tuning, and dyno time costs money.

Not saying you don't have the electrical ability to get it working, but from everything I've seen about it on our engines it's tons of effort for little gain.

Do a quick search on the forums if you don't believe me...

dok has the right idea IMHO, get a lexus AFM housing, AFPR and bump the pressure up with stock injectors (or get 550's, cut they're not cheap), and then tune with a second hand SAFC. You'd come in cheaper IMHO.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just think you'd be better off going in a direction that's sure to work instead of a direction that may waste time and money.

 

[skipbarber]

No rain over here, haha.

We do appreciate the insight guys. This being our first Supra I have no doubt there is still a lot for us to learn. The thing with the wire tuck and MegaSquirt is... we want to be a serious contender next year. Yes MS can be difficult, yes a wire tuck can make stuff hard to repair, but we wanna bring our top game next year. Impressing the judges, and squeezing out every last ounce of performance we can, is our next step in this challenge.

Also keep in mind we are trying (HAVE) to be super strict on the budget and get the most we can for our money. Having to do more work for less money is way better than paying more and doing less work in our eyes. Some of us have tuning experience, and we have access to a dyno, so no probs there.

Also, we have a whole year to sort stuff out, and as far as money... Well, we don't have lots, but worst case scenario is that something we try doesn't work, we rip it out and subtract it from the budget, and start again.

Please don't take what I'm saying the wrong way, I'm not trying to shoot you guys down. We are taking in every opinion/option/idea and considering them, so please, keep them coming! but considering the rules, we have little room to flex.

-Avi

 

[dok33]

Very very few people have run a MS on our engines. The issue with it being a standalone means you'll have to start from scratch on the tuning, and dyno time costs money.

Not saying you don't have the electrical ability to get it working, but from everything I've seen about it on our engines it's tons of effort for little gain.

Do a quick search on the forums if you don't believe me...

dok has the right idea IMHO, get a lexus AFM housing, AFPR and bump the pressure up with stock injectors (or get 550's, cut they're not cheap), and then tune with a second hand SAFC. You'd come in cheaper IMHO.

Not trying to rain on your parade, just think you'd be better off going in a direction that's sure to work instead of a direction that may waste time and money.

Once I'm finished with everything else and we get the MS tuned on our Festiva, I'll most likely be MS'ing my Supra:naughty: If I fall into a pile of cash I may go AEM and get Justin Nenni to tune it since he's here in Austin, but I'm a cheap ass and the MS works really well. The SAFC is kind of a crude way to tune and I don't think it will be that great for >500whp. You've really got to watch the fuel trims to make sure you're not adjusting too much and screwing up the ECUs load calcs and timing.

An ignition signal is the main concern I have with the MS on a MKIII, alot of people have had trouble getting the MS to reliably read the CPS signal. Of course that's easily remedied with a DIS-6 system, I think someone on here had actually made some bolt-on wheels for the 7M at one point as well. Another idea I was kicking around was using the 2jzge disty just for the ignition signal, but it's a big goofy mofo and it seems silly to have it on the engine just for that purpose. Would work on the 7M as well since you can mod the 7M CPS to fit the 2jzge head.

I believe williamb82 on SM has a MKII with a MS'd 7mgte, might be a good guy to talk to.

 

[figgie]

well

technically the dyno is NOT needed. Afterall prior to the Dyno, the hot rod guys were making lots of power and tuning by inspecting spark plugs

The CPS signal is a magnetic based signal so the voltage adjustment will need to be accounted for especially for the lower rpm (since the CPS rpm is exactly half the engine RPM). The Air gaps of the CPS will also need to be measured. More than likely at higher engine speed. The MS probably reads the CPS fine, at lower RPM is more than likely to miss read.

 

[Poodles]

Yep, having to use a DIS-6 system was the main deal breaker when i was looking into it.

Supposedly it can now read the CPS, but I'm not going to be the test mule, I'd rather have a car that worked LOL.

For your time and budget, you're not going to get into the uber high horsepower range, so a piggy back would be the easiest IMHO. 550's (or a fuel pressure bump) and a lexus AFM would raise the fuel cut. SAFC would allow you to raise it a bit more as well, but on the stock turbo you're going to be at the end of it's effiecency range...

I'd focus on the rest of the car, as suspension and tires make these cars shine. Hell, I'm on stock suspension with whiteline swaybars and stock sized Kumho SPT's and I pissed off 2 MKIV's in Austin that couldn't get away from me on the cruise :rofl:

 

[dok33]

If only you woulda been able to get around that wagon :stickpoke

 

[DETONATION666]

Very cool car looks great!