supercharged idea, help me with this

[Nick M]

My thoughts

Doing something because nobody else has is just dumb. That isn't a reason. Are you going shove a hot poker up your ass and then chop your dick off because nobody else will?

there was never a supercharged supra anywhere unless some redneck got hold on one and bolted on a blower.

Turbocharging is a form of supercharging. So Mercedes Benz engineers are rednecks? Wow. Yes, that is what you implied. Blowers are for rednecks.

and i didnt want to tap the block for a 1/2 NA-T,

Then how do you plan to lubricate the blower. Some kits, which we don't have, are self contained. The good ones are not.

I could be wrong but I am betting the engineers at toyota and all the other companies might know a bit more and had good reason to run a turbo and not its half witted lil brother the supercharger so I say lets explore the snail route a bit more.

Toyota has run factory superchargers. So has many other automotive manufacturers.

Stop posting that phony 7MGE blower. Our car does not have a mass air flow sensor, it uses a vane air flow meter.

On a built race car, especially in a bracket class, a centrifugal supercharger wtih a cogged belt is probably the best idea. It will be the best due to consitency, not in total power output.

 

[Kai]

Question - and excuse me if i sound a little optimistic/dumb here. Is there no way to mount a blower so that it almost sits on top of the rocker cover? Think about it this way. Instead of just having a straight crossover pipe into the TB, have the TB almost directly bolted to the blower, and the blower connected to the AFM via the pipe that would normally connect to the TB?

Granted, you wouldnt be able to close the bonnet due to the height, but who says you cant do it just because of that? No reason you cant just cut out the relevant section and have a little mad max action going on

There are so many people in this thread saying 'give up now' and 'go turbo instead', well, 'those that say it cannot be done are getting in the way of the ones that are trying'

I see no reason why Supercharging is any less relevant to turbocharging....

 

[Kai]

Just an update - showing you the idea i just mooted above, and the 1G-GZEU for comparison.

1G-GZEU:

My Crackpot Idea:

Any merit in that?

 

[IJ.]

Question - and excuse me if i sound a little optimistic/dumb here. Is there no way to mount a blower so that it almost sits on top of the rocker cover? Think about it this way. Instead of just having a straight crossover pipe into the TB, have the TB almost directly bolted to the blower, and the blower connected to the AFM via the pipe that would normally connect to the TB?

Granted, you wouldnt be able to close the bonnet due to the height, but who says you cant do it just because of that? No reason you cant just cut out the relevant section and have a little mad max action going on

There are so many people in this thread saying 'give up now' and 'go turbo instead', well, 'those that say it cannot be done are getting in the way of the ones that are trying'

I see no reason why Supercharging is any less relevant to turbocharging....

Ummm I have a very well equipped shop here at home 3 axis CNC Mill, Tig, Mig, Lathe, Plasma Cutter, Oxy Gear, Press, and have access to just about anything else I could need or the funds to purchase it if needs be.

Trust me if it was cost effective or worth doing I would have finished mine after buying the Blower.

What you're forgetting here is to make reasonable power you need a MUCH larger blower than the dinky toys being posted as you just can't chuck a bigger pully on and overdrive it without causing heat then damage!

The little blowers overdriven on a 3.0L motor might make 5 psi ohhh earth shattering performance there!

A bigger blower better matched to the 3.0 physically won't fit.

I'm not shitting on your ides for the fun of it I'd LOVE a blown 7M it's just not practical!

 

[JustAnotherVictim]

The point everyone is trying to make is it's much more efficient for this engine to have a turbo charger compared to a supercharger. No power loss at the crank and basically set up to fit no problem. If you're stuck on this idea nobody is going to stop you, it's just not practical like it has been said.

 

[Clip]

My thoughts

Doing something because nobody else has is just dumb. That isn't a reason. Are you going shove a hot poker up your ass and then chop your dick off because nobody else will?

im pretty sure someone has done that...

here's more of my change on the idea. i think i might be passing half a dollar with 2 cents here and there. i think kai's idea of a custom hood would be the best way to go, if you overcame IJ's stated problems.

there was a supra for sale around here with a supercharged 350 in it, sticking about 8 inches - 1 foot out of the hood (correct me if there's no such thing, this was a month or two ago and i think that's what the ad said). it looked plain ugly.

 

[Kai]

I've just had bad experience with Turbo'ed engine in the past. Either headgasket failure, turbo's seize, throwing rods or bolts - Supercharging would be pretty much all bolt on, rather than having to do an engine transplant and all the associated wiring that goes with it.

IJ - wasnt implying that you're not capable of doing it at all mate, just that people are fixated with TURBO TURBO TURBO that supercharging gets very little look in

It *has* to be possible to fit a supercharger to the 7M - screw whether it'll give you a shitload of boost or not, it's still going to be better than a stock 7M-GE (bar a K&N of course)....

 

[Nick M]

im pretty sure someone has done that...

It is an old George Carlin joke.

He says "I am the first person to ever say this". Obviously.

 

[smokey]

put a monster hood scoop on it and go from there

it'd be fully muscle car y0

 

[IJ.]

I've just had bad experience with Turbo'ed engine in the past. Either headgasket failure, turbo's seize, throwing rods or bolts - Supercharging would be pretty much all bolt on, rather than having to do an engine transplant and all the associated wiring that goes with it.

IJ - wasnt implying that you're not capable of doing it at all mate, just that people are fixated with TURBO TURBO TURBO that supercharging gets very little look in

It *has* to be possible to fit a supercharger to the 7M - screw whether it'll give you a shitload of boost or not, it's still going to be better than a stock 7M-GE (bar a K&N of course)....

For the amount of time effort and strees there will be in doing this it had better make good boost/HP or why bother?

The custom fabrication alone is going to cost more than and NA/T....

 

[cjsupra90]

I've just had bad experience with Turbo'ed engine in the past. Either headgasket failure, turbo's seize, throwing rods or bolts - Supercharging would be pretty much all bolt on, rather than having to do an engine transplant and all the associated wiring that goes with it.

IJ - wasnt implying that you're not capable of doing it at all mate, just that people are fixated with TURBO TURBO TURBO that supercharging gets very little look in

It *has* to be possible to fit a supercharger to the 7M - screw whether it'll give you a shitload of boost or not, it's still going to be better than a stock 7M-GE (bar a K&N of course)....

All the bad experiances that you had with turbo'ed engines are still going to be there with a supercharger with the exception of turbo seize. 99% of engine damage when dealing with any type of forced induction is due to tuning. The other thing is that I highly doubt that you throw a rod due to the turbo. The number 1 cause of rod problems is RPM and the most damaging stroke to a rod it the intake stroke. This is because during the intake stroke the rods is under tensile load where as every other stroke, the rods are under compressive loads. Forced induction no matter what type it may be actually releaves the tensile loads from the rod during the intake stroke and helps save the rods to a point. This is also why N/A race engines throw rods far more often then turbo'ed race engine. The turbo engine does not need to turn as high of RPM's to get the power where the N/A engine does and the positive pressure in the intake eliminates the tensile load from the rod. Plus a turbo would be a bolt on, but not the S-charger as it would requier fab work.

Yes, it can be done. As a matter of fact, I have seen a picture of one some where.

Let me ask you, would you be looking into using a root or screw style or a centrifical style S-charger?

 

[Kai]

I've had a rod bolt exit the block at 5500rpm in an RS Turbo before, not an experience i want to repeat. It wasn't the turbo's fault directly, but the increase in boost from it did. Had a turbo seize up on a Cosworth 4x4 before, but that could have been due to poor maintainance by the previous owner, and then there are the lag issues of turbo's. Granted supercharging requires just as much attention as turbocharging, its just in the back of my mind that turbo's have some kind of evil stigma attached to them like 'own a turbo, drive it for a week, then watch it self destruct'.

Fab work wouldnt be too much of an issue - Eddie is all powerful

All i'd be aiming for with a Supercharger, is 100bhp more at the crank, any more would be a bonus. Plus it'd be a one of a kind

As for the type of blower....well, Roots ones are inefficient, and kinda bulky, so i was going to choose Screw or G-lader, like the one fitted to the VW Corrado G60 and the VW Polo G40 - those are small, compact and provide upto 8psi of boost under normal circumstances.

Look at the Whipple W200R - its compact, good for engines upto 3.3litres and can push out upto 25psi of boost. It's a self contained unit, meaning no oil feed lines - just the belt drive and the inlet/compressed exhaust openings. Roughly 38cm long (thats 14 inches for all you imperialists), and approx 14cm tall, or 5.5 inches. So, its not too large to fit where i suggested, and okay, you have to open up the bonnet, but like i said, if people see a supercharger, they know you mean business

 

[IJ.]

Do it ...

 

[Kai]

Oh i plan on it - and if i succeed, i will be a millionaire for charging you guys £££ for kits

Still, need to find a flat, a job and a flatmate first - next upgrade for the Supra, new spark plugs and timing set to 12deg

 

[group a supra]

you got to be kiddin me right :wtf:

 

[IJ.]

Ok let me get this straight....

You have no job nowhere to live no equipment no access to equipment none of the skills needed no experience in the real world with blowers and you're going to build kits?

Try to not be a cock here but thanks for wasting my time.....

 

[group a supra]

:biglaugh: roflmao here with ya ian

 

[Nick M]

I've had a rod bolt exit the block at 5500rpm in an RS Turbo

I have had a rod exit the block of a 2000 Corolla at 2000 rpm not under any load. Well, the customer did, not me. And it only had 20,000 miles.

 

[Kai]

Ok let me get this straight....

You have no job nowhere to live no equipment no access to equipment none of the skills needed no experience in the real world with blowers and you're going to build kits?

Try to not be a cock here but thanks for wasting my time.....

You may or may not recall that i'm also looking after my terminally ill mother, meaning that i'm living in her house. Again, everything for me is on hold until September because of this.

I have a job lined up, but I don't start until September, which means i'm living off the bank account & savings. Still, i do have some inheritance coming my way in 6 weeks - which will go into various projects, including the feasability of the supercharger idea i mooted. Also note, i have never at any point said that i was an expert on superchargers, the whole idea of mine was just that, an idea, but still one that i'd like to put into practice and was asking for *advice* from you lot.

I do have equipment, but for something like this, its a job for eddie as far as fabrication is concerned, seeing as i have no daily driver until job starts in september (company car), and dont really want to tear down the car until then.

Finally, when i said i'd put a kit together, that was kind of a sarcastic joke, as was made kind of obvious from the large grin...

 

[Kai]

I have had a rod exit the block of a 2000 Corolla at 2000 rpm not under any load. Well, the customer did, not me. And it only had 20,000 miles.

I suppose the only consolation with mine, was that RS Turbo's, when pushed too far, had a tendency to do things like that - the CVH wasnt the best engine Ford ever made.

Still, 2000rpm is a little low for self destruction :3d_frown: