theWeezL said:
Niether is having a flower cross breed with another flower, making a different flower proof of evolution.
Religion rant (if easily offended, should probably not enter)
- Thread starter SupraDerk
- Start date
Niether is having a flower cross breed with another flower, making a different flower proof of evolution.
show me the chemical formula that started converting 1 celled organisms into multi celled organisims known as man. :biglaugh:Kai said:All those that believe in god - please post proof of his existence, or retract
Kai said:All those that believe in god - please post proof of his existence, or retract
Sure, right after you provide proof that he doesn't....
What does it matter what I believe anyway? If you don't want to believe, then don't. If you want to believe that he does not exist, there is nothing I can say change you mind. Conversely, nothing you can say will convince me likewise, so let's drop it.
so are you saying that the proof has to be physically seeing god or a tangible being?
just wondering.
just wondering.
If you really want to debate something, start another thread about the US's participation in WWII. You said something in another thread that I disagree with. I'll debate WWII with you all day long.....
rakkasan said:
Well that's pretty much the point. I don't care what you believe or what anyone else believes. What I do care about is when someone (mostly christians) jump all over me for not believing what they do. I won't debate the validity of creationism or of evolution, I just don't understand why people feel the need to have to "show me the light" or force their crap down my throat. I get so much shit for not believing a man in the sky created me, and I just don't understand how someone could see it as more plausible than evolution. But to each their own. The point in this thread was not to try to persuade aanyone in either direction. Just to discuss what makes creationism more of a believeable thing than evolution? It's been said by both sides that both are mere theories... so stick to your theory and I'll stick to mine right?
I wish that's the way that it was, but so many people just can't let me believe what I want to believe! Haha, it drives me insane sometimes.
JustAnotherVictim
Supramania Contributor
Well you said how manys sides.Joel W. said:That's cool because it brings us closer together now... I don't either. If you did? I would not mind or attack your beliefs.
Sorry. :naughty:
Jav: Is that all?
I figure pure evolutionists, anti-evolution and the people who believe some of both.
SupraDerk said:
As christians, we're charged with helping non believers recieve the message. Personally, I can't stand the door-to-door approach that many disciplines use, it pisses me of really. I know when someone isn't interested to talk about religion, so I know (I hope) when & when not to mention the subject. A lot of Christians do not, and they approach the situation much like a sales proposition. When they think that they are failing, they get butthurt & press harder. It's a failure at getting a point across or a lack of communication skills most of the time.....
I hope that when you meet someone that fits the discription above, you look at the situation as a failure on a human level, not on a religious one. If the person you're speaking to is offending you, then it's because of how they are 'selling', not what they are selling.
SupraDerk...I agree that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. I don't go to church except on special occasions, but my wife is there everytime they open the doors. I do know right from wrong, and I do pray everyday. Not to ask for anything, but to give thanks for what I already have...a beautiful family, good health, a roof over my head and two great running supras. I think the reason most christians try and preach to you, is because they get joy out of talking about God. My wife's eyes light up on Wednesday morning because she knows she's going to get to go to church that evening and talk about God.
It's like finding a new favorite flavor of icecream. You want to tell everyone, man you have got to try this. Well, they look at it the same way. They want you to try it because it makes THEM so happy. They want to share the happiness with you. My whole family begs me to come to church. My two little girls try and get me to go. I choose not to go, because I would rather play golf. I play on sunday mornings and Wednesday afternoons. If I didn't play golf then I would probably go to church. Not for me, but to please my wife, little girls, brother, sister and friends. They all know that I'm a good person, but they want me to attend church. I think that christians in general want everyone else to find what they've found in God and church.
Short version: I think they do it to help you and not piss you off. I know you know this, but you said that they force it down your throat or something to that affect. I'm not sticking up for them, because I think everyone deserves a right to make their own decissions. I would just never condem someone for trying to help me. Hope this long ass post makes sense................nothing but love and respect for all SM members regardless of sex, race or religion.
It's like finding a new favorite flavor of icecream. You want to tell everyone, man you have got to try this. Well, they look at it the same way. They want you to try it because it makes THEM so happy. They want to share the happiness with you. My whole family begs me to come to church. My two little girls try and get me to go. I choose not to go, because I would rather play golf. I play on sunday mornings and Wednesday afternoons. If I didn't play golf then I would probably go to church. Not for me, but to please my wife, little girls, brother, sister and friends. They all know that I'm a good person, but they want me to attend church. I think that christians in general want everyone else to find what they've found in God and church.
Short version: I think they do it to help you and not piss you off. I know you know this, but you said that they force it down your throat or something to that affect. I'm not sticking up for them, because I think everyone deserves a right to make their own decissions. I would just never condem someone for trying to help me. Hope this long ass post makes sense................nothing but love and respect for all SM members regardless of sex, race or religion.
Kai said:All those that believe in god - please post proof of his existence, or retract
I posted something and you scoffed at me. I thought you would, but I can post more if you like.
I have some other friends who went to Africa on a missions trip. They are about my age, 20-24. Of course, while they were there they did other things, but often times they would pray for people. They prayed for a man that was blind (clearly so, he wasn't faking it). After they prayed his sight was restored.
As for actually seeing spirtual beings...
Other friends of ours were driving on the freeway when a car ahead of them lost controll and went across the median into on coming traffic. As the car was weaving though traffic they saw an angel over the car shielding it and helping direct it through the traffic to safety.
This one is personal experience. I want to make it clear that I am not a liar and would never make anything like this up. I usually wouldn't share this with non-christians as they would tell me it's stupid (as you probably will).
I was lying in bed one night, not asleep, when an angel appeared beside my bed. I was startled at first, but after studying the being (I say being as the form was human like, but had no gender), I determined it was an angel and relaxed. At that point it moved and stood over me. I have a bunk above my bed and it was tall enogh that it upper half was going through the top bunk, but I had no problem seeing its top half. The bunk was still there, I could just see though it like it was translucent. At this point I figgured it wanted to tell me something so I litterally said, "What's up?" It replied, "He want's you to know to continue on. Follow Him." At the moment it finished the word on, I saw darkness with a brilliant light off in the distance. The light started filling the darkness and coming closer to me. As it got closer I felt peace filling me. The light grew brighter, brilliant pure white light, and then it washed over me. I was left staring at the bunk above me, with my whole body tingling, utterly stunned.
I know I will probably get flack for that story, but I am not lying nor making it up. It happened. I just wanted to share the proof that I have seen in my own life.
^Maby you were sleeping and saw dreams?:icon_bigg
I can't say that I believe in God, but I'm also not anti-God. I just was in a christian society in Germany. There I talked with my friends about this. one boy kept a book, where he wrote down his prays and then, weather they came true. Also a couple said, when they were in trouble theyr parents felt it and prayd for them etc etc
I myself have really mixed up feelings, but as one guy said, weather you really believe or not, God has a plan with you(he thinks). I'm thinking maby to get christen, who knows. Still I think I will never pray before every meal and every day, but who knows:icon_razz
I can't say that I believe in God, but I'm also not anti-God. I just was in a christian society in Germany. There I talked with my friends about this. one boy kept a book, where he wrote down his prays and then, weather they came true. Also a couple said, when they were in trouble theyr parents felt it and prayd for them etc etc
I myself have really mixed up feelings, but as one guy said, weather you really believe or not, God has a plan with you(he thinks). I'm thinking maby to get christen, who knows. Still I think I will never pray before every meal and every day, but who knows:icon_razz
JustAnotherVictim said:
Pure evolutionists? Are they like good evolutionists or what?
Anti evolutionist? Are these evil poser evolutionists in it for the money? LMAO...or something else.
Pure religious?... Again, Is this a good religious person?
Anti religious? or the "posers" that Chad mentioned that are just in it for the money and power?.
Are there more sides? Anyone else in here?
My point is there are ALWAYS more than two sides to every issue.
The newt speech guys will ALWAYS break it down to only 2 sides, right and wrong or good and evil. This is wrong.l
JustAnotherVictim
Supramania Contributor
People who don't believe in God and that we all evolved from lesser life forms.Joel W. said:
People who have decided that all evolution is bogus.
I never said that yo. Although I would group then with anti-evolution.
I would think anti-religious would be people who hate organized religion not necessarily people who don't believe in god.
That is true.
I don't try and convince anyone that evolution is not what I believe in, if they have no intent on actually believing anything else. That's like saying "Hey I will never stray from Honda, but go ahead and try to convince me that Supra's are better". Ok no matter how hard you try, you aren't going to tell him his Honda is a POS. It's your oppinion. You have proof, sure you do, but he will still say "Naw, my Honda gets better gas mileage.". Ok so, really, what's the point?
If someone actually has questions about Creation, or the Christian life, I'll answer them. If they want me to prove there is a God, I'll tell them "Prove there isn't one." Then they'll say something like "Well you can't see him". And I'll say "You can't see the wind either can you?". And they'll say "Well I can feel the wind." And I'll say, "Yeah but I feel God too." If you're in a house, you won't feel the wind, even though you see what it's doing. But you can come up with all sorts of explinations for why plastic sacks are moving other than wind. If you don't want to believe in God, I can't prove there is one. The only way you'll know there really is a God is if you "walk outside" and feel it for yourself. But if you're ok with just saying "Naw, there is no wind (God) and you can't prove it". Hey, I can't force you to walk outside and have the wind flow around you.
Why would anyone who is dead set on Evolution ask what is so unbelievable about it? Well, for someone like me, I have a lot of reasons! But my proof is only good if you want to believe something else besides Evolution. Hey I can show you the facts, but all you'll do is tell me I'm full of crap. So, there's no reason to. Internet links, useless. There's more internet links on this subject than porn sites. (well almost;0) :naughty:
In closing, if you want information, and you actually want to believe something different, or you just want to know why someone else believes differently, that's fine. I'll tell you what I know and believe. I keep an open mind. I won't get mad if you try and prove me wrong because it just makes my faith stronger.
This thread kind of makes me think of a parable. Say I'm a Total Supra junkie. I live breath and eat them... :evil2: But now I want some info on Honda. So I go over there and start talking about Honda. Then people start giving me ideas about Honda, and I get pissed and say "DAMN IT, you're trying to SHOVE that Honda crap down my throat!!"
We Christians do love talking about God, but you know what, I will be the first to admit some Christians go about it the wrong way. You can say anything you want about God, I really don't care. Just ask me a question about what I believe and I'll answer it. Other than that, I try really hard not to state my oppinion about the subject unless it's asked for.
If someone actually has questions about Creation, or the Christian life, I'll answer them. If they want me to prove there is a God, I'll tell them "Prove there isn't one." Then they'll say something like "Well you can't see him". And I'll say "You can't see the wind either can you?". And they'll say "Well I can feel the wind." And I'll say, "Yeah but I feel God too." If you're in a house, you won't feel the wind, even though you see what it's doing. But you can come up with all sorts of explinations for why plastic sacks are moving other than wind. If you don't want to believe in God, I can't prove there is one. The only way you'll know there really is a God is if you "walk outside" and feel it for yourself. But if you're ok with just saying "Naw, there is no wind (God) and you can't prove it". Hey, I can't force you to walk outside and have the wind flow around you.
Why would anyone who is dead set on Evolution ask what is so unbelievable about it? Well, for someone like me, I have a lot of reasons! But my proof is only good if you want to believe something else besides Evolution. Hey I can show you the facts, but all you'll do is tell me I'm full of crap. So, there's no reason to. Internet links, useless. There's more internet links on this subject than porn sites. (well almost;0) :naughty:
In closing, if you want information, and you actually want to believe something different, or you just want to know why someone else believes differently, that's fine. I'll tell you what I know and believe. I keep an open mind. I won't get mad if you try and prove me wrong because it just makes my faith stronger.
This thread kind of makes me think of a parable. Say I'm a Total Supra junkie. I live breath and eat them... :evil2: But now I want some info on Honda. So I go over there and start talking about Honda. Then people start giving me ideas about Honda, and I get pissed and say "DAMN IT, you're trying to SHOVE that Honda crap down my throat!!"
We Christians do love talking about God, but you know what, I will be the first to admit some Christians go about it the wrong way. You can say anything you want about God, I really don't care. Just ask me a question about what I believe and I'll answer it. Other than that, I try really hard not to state my oppinion about the subject unless it's asked for.
Christians usually freak out when I tell them what Im about to say.
the reason why prayer works:
We are all god. yes thats right...there is no single all powerful entity, unless you consider all living things to be like cells of a much larger being. The planet Earth, and everything on it is esentially made up of matter and energy. Being part of the larger whole is what makes prayer possible because while it seems that we are seperate we are are not. This binding "force" if you will is something that can be tapped into and spread around. When large groups of people get together and pray they are concetrating and directing this energy for the good of the larger organism (the collective spirit). Native American used to "pray" as well. Even though they didnt believe in your "one true god" their prayers were answered.
the answer to your macro-evolution problem:
We are all one "species". Well not really by definition, because of how man defines "species" but everything on this planet is of the same energy so while the DNA may be different on a physical level, in the spiritual sense we are all one organism. Yes thats right, Im saying that the same energy that makes me have a "soul" is in fact in all things (including things like insects, plants and even rocks) and therefor all things share my soul. In a global sense this energy is "micro-evolving" and thus we all are along with it.
Its just a bit far out of the box for most people to comprehend so its ok if you dont follow what Im saying, but let me try to summarize it for you. Everything on this planet (including the planet itself) is of one greater energy. As part of that energy we can tap other..."circuits" lets say...and thus change them. Prayer works by tapping this energy. There is no external being that wants to bend us to its will...everything is "god"
There, you made me give you the cliff notes on my theory of spirituallity. And while most christians will call it blashpemy, many of the religious scholors I have discussed it with, find it fits quite nicely with their interpretation of religion. Its also a wonderful theory because it can be used to explain everything you call "gods will" or divine or miraculous.
try that on for size.
the reason why prayer works:
We are all god. yes thats right...there is no single all powerful entity, unless you consider all living things to be like cells of a much larger being. The planet Earth, and everything on it is esentially made up of matter and energy. Being part of the larger whole is what makes prayer possible because while it seems that we are seperate we are are not. This binding "force" if you will is something that can be tapped into and spread around. When large groups of people get together and pray they are concetrating and directing this energy for the good of the larger organism (the collective spirit). Native American used to "pray" as well. Even though they didnt believe in your "one true god" their prayers were answered.
the answer to your macro-evolution problem:
We are all one "species". Well not really by definition, because of how man defines "species" but everything on this planet is of the same energy so while the DNA may be different on a physical level, in the spiritual sense we are all one organism. Yes thats right, Im saying that the same energy that makes me have a "soul" is in fact in all things (including things like insects, plants and even rocks) and therefor all things share my soul. In a global sense this energy is "micro-evolving" and thus we all are along with it.
Its just a bit far out of the box for most people to comprehend so its ok if you dont follow what Im saying, but let me try to summarize it for you. Everything on this planet (including the planet itself) is of one greater energy. As part of that energy we can tap other..."circuits" lets say...and thus change them. Prayer works by tapping this energy. There is no external being that wants to bend us to its will...everything is "god"
There, you made me give you the cliff notes on my theory of spirituallity. And while most christians will call it blashpemy, many of the religious scholors I have discussed it with, find it fits quite nicely with their interpretation of religion. Its also a wonderful theory because it can be used to explain everything you call "gods will" or divine or miraculous.
try that on for size.
ValgeKotkas said:
As I said, I wasn't asleep, I was definately awake. If I thought it could be a dream I wouldn't post it.
theWeezL said:
First off, God is not trying to bend us to His will, he gives us the choice to completely reject it. This was discussed alot earlier.
Your ideas are what I've heard alot of. Basically, it is a world that exists through a higher power, but that high power is the collection of all things. I find this a way that people use to explain spiritual things without having to humble themselves by saying there is a being greater than themselves. Man wants to lean on his own understanding of things and prove himself great. It all comes down to pride, if everything is bound together and man is the smartest of all, that makes man look pretty good. If God is the binding factor, then that would mean there is a being smarter and greater than man, and that totally screws up the man is the greatest thing which would mean man would have to eat his pride. This difference makes the first theory easier to swollow for many, and so it is accepted.
God made man to excell. He gave us brains and ideas. He gave us the ability to invent. He gave us the resources to do it. All we can do is slowly discover more of His wonders and either copy them, or marvel at them. God made man to do great things, but He will always be greater.
P.S. Your ideas do not anger me nor make me want to yell at you. They cannot be blasphmy if you are not Christian. I can only consider them the wrong path. That is all.
Weezl, this I will remember (how you phrased it), cause my theory is closely same
May the Energy be with you!
Thx!
May the Energy be with you!
Thx!