Pre-build discussion (7MGTE)
- Thread starter Doward
- Start date
Oh yes they do 
Part #918525
ATI 410-298-4343
Get the dampner w/ the timing marks
You will have to turn down your crank bolt flange to 1.780-1.810" iirc
You can run the dampner with or without the AC pulley.
Part #918525
ATI 410-298-4343
Get the dampner w/ the timing marks
You will have to turn down your crank bolt flange to 1.780-1.810" iirc
You can run the dampner with or without the AC pulley.
Here's the info from Mkiiitech.com (why is it dead, anyway? Google cache FTMFW!)
I think I'll go this way
jdub said:
I think I'll go this way
LOL, and I assume it is rebuildable as per other ATI dampers?
Besides, a little less weight up front to go with the less weight in the rotating assembly, and the less weight on the lightweight flywheel... should be eager to spin
Of course, the problem here, is that shoves me about $400 over what I was expecting to spend... it is money WELL spent, though! I've got another $350 coming that I can add on my artificially set $2000 budget, but that's pretty much covering the rods... I think it's time I gathered all these extra parts I have around here, and have a Fund Doward's Build Sale
I set myself a $2000 budget to rebuild the engine -
Here's what I have calculated so far:
Titan MHG - $120 @ TMS
Pistons/Rods - $1000 @ Import Performance Parts (Eagle/Wiseco or Eagle/Ross)
Main Bearings - $46 @ Summit (Clevite, but I'm going to check Advance first to see if I can score some TRUE Clevites)
Rod Bearings - $42 @ Advance (same story)
Thrust Bearings - $11 @ Advance (Yep)
Oil Pump - $182 @ Advance (Sealed Power - Bryan mentioned he likes to go through the oil pump and do some internal work to it, so I may bring him my stocker)
Oil Pump Bearings - $30 @ Toyota (if mine are bad - rather Bryan has them, and doesn't need them, then the other way around)
Exhaust Manifold Gasket - $27 @ Toyota (Haven't decided between stock, or a SCE copper one)
Harmonic Balancer - $378-$450 @ ATI (p/n 918525 - gonna see if I can score the $378 price tomorrow)
Total in parts will be between ~$1625 - ~$1910. Doesn't include little things like seals, fluids, etc - I always budget $150 in 'Misc'
I've got an estimate of rougly $1200 in machine work from Bryan, which includes bore, line hone, cleaning, crank work (knife edge + micropolish/rebalance) and a little something thrown in for misc little work.
That's about $2825-$3110 total... so I'm about $1000 over budget... I've got $350 coming in, so I need to see if I can raise another approx $650 in parts to sell... I know I've got a good CT26 + full 3" exhaust sitting here If I can cover $300 of that overbudget, the wife won't kill me
Besides, a little less weight up front to go with the less weight in the rotating assembly, and the less weight on the lightweight flywheel... should be eager to spin
Of course, the problem here, is that shoves me about $400 over what I was expecting to spend... it is money WELL spent, though! I've got another $350 coming that I can add on my artificially set $2000 budget, but that's pretty much covering the rods... I think it's time I gathered all these extra parts I have around here, and have a Fund Doward's Build Sale
I set myself a $2000 budget to rebuild the engine -
Here's what I have calculated so far:
Titan MHG - $120 @ TMS
Pistons/Rods - $1000 @ Import Performance Parts (Eagle/Wiseco or Eagle/Ross)
Main Bearings - $46 @ Summit (Clevite, but I'm going to check Advance first to see if I can score some TRUE Clevites)
Rod Bearings - $42 @ Advance (same story)
Thrust Bearings - $11 @ Advance (Yep)
Oil Pump - $182 @ Advance (Sealed Power - Bryan mentioned he likes to go through the oil pump and do some internal work to it, so I may bring him my stocker)
Oil Pump Bearings - $30 @ Toyota (if mine are bad - rather Bryan has them, and doesn't need them, then the other way around)
Exhaust Manifold Gasket - $27 @ Toyota (Haven't decided between stock, or a SCE copper one)
Harmonic Balancer - $378-$450 @ ATI (p/n 918525 - gonna see if I can score the $378 price tomorrow
)Total in parts will be between ~$1625 - ~$1910. Doesn't include little things like seals, fluids, etc - I always budget $150 in 'Misc'
I've got an estimate of rougly $1200 in machine work from Bryan, which includes bore, line hone, cleaning, crank work (knife edge + micropolish/rebalance) and a little something thrown in for misc little work.
That's about $2825-$3110 total... so I'm about $1000 over budget... I've got $350 coming in, so I need to see if I can raise another approx $650 in parts to sell... I know I've got a good CT26 + full 3" exhaust sitting here
If I can cover $300 of that overbudget, the wife won't kill me
Yeah it is...noticed a definite difference on my motor vs a stocker. Nice and smooth
You'll have to ask about the re-build ability...that I don't know.
BTW - if you can't go the screw in freeze plug route, make very sure you use Toyota freeze plugs vs Dorman. Toyota is metric, Dorman is English and about 5 thousands smaller than Toyota. I blew the front plug behind the water pump because of this
Also, make sure the plugs are recessed...the machined sealing surface is below the top metal of the block. The one I blew is the most like this, almost an 1/8" inside. I had to make a tool on my lathe that I could use an air hammer on when I replaced mine (did it w/ the motor in the car).
You'll have to ask about the re-build ability...that I don't know.
BTW - if you can't go the screw in freeze plug route, make very sure you use Toyota freeze plugs vs Dorman. Toyota is metric, Dorman is English and about 5 thousands smaller than Toyota. I blew the front plug behind the water pump because of this
Also, make sure the plugs are recessed...the machined sealing surface is below the top metal of the block. The one I blew is the most like this, almost an 1/8" inside. I had to make a tool on my lathe that I could use an air hammer on when I replaced mine (did it w/ the motor in the car).
Doward said:Appreciate it! So far then:
I'm still considering the pistons to use - either Ross or Wiseco's (not too thrilled the JEs don't include rings, but eh... they're lighter as well, but anything's going to be a good upgrade to stock! Also, the Wisecos are in the two highest hp engines over @ 7MPower.com, so...
Rods will be Eagles, hopefully with some stronger bolts.
Crank will be pretty much what you have, Ian. Maybe not as pretty - but if you're ok with it, I'll bring that picture to Bryan!
Clevite Bearings (if I can find the real deals) all throughout
Zero balance everything, including the flywheel and.... hey, now there's a thought - Harmonic balancer! 212k miles on the stocker going on? I don't think so!
Gonna have to research that, as well!
I got my machine shop to order the Clevitte 77 bearings for me.
He called his supplier in front of me and it cost me only $60 for both the rod and main bearings.
So yes, you can find good deals out there.
Cheers,
Roy
jdub, what size are the stock plugs? I'm seeing 1 plug up front that is one size, 4 another size, and 1 in the rear that is a 3rd size. I'd have to use NPT plugs for 'em, so the odds of having a direct size are pretty slim
Does Toyota have a brass set, though?
Oh oh!! Total Seal makes a gapless piston ring set for the 7M as well... :naughty: Anybody run 'em yet?
*edit*
Might have to scrap that idea... TS rings are 1.5/1.5/4.0 - doesn't look like any of the aftermarket forgings use those thickness rings :3d_frown:
*edit2* Ross pistons are 1.5/1.5/3.0! Might be able to use some TS gapless 1st and 2nd rings, after all.
Does Toyota have a brass set, though?
Oh oh!! Total Seal makes a gapless piston ring set for the 7M as well... :naughty: Anybody run 'em yet?
*edit*
Might have to scrap that idea... TS rings are 1.5/1.5/4.0 - doesn't look like any of the aftermarket forgings use those thickness rings :3d_frown:
*edit2* Ross pistons are 1.5/1.5/3.0! Might be able to use some TS gapless 1st and 2nd rings, after all.
I just measured a new Toyota plug...it's 1.589" (the large one). It's a steel plug with a brass colored coating. It's a press fit, so the block opening will be slightly smaller. Using these are not a problem...just make sure the plugs are recessed to fit tight in the block. Almost every one you see blow is the same one as on my motor...I'm willing to bet it's because the plug was not fully seated due to the depth of the sealing surface on the block.
Don't have the other plugs :dunno:
Don't have the other plugs :dunno:
Oh, no, it's not that I'm worried the plugs will come back out - screw in plugs help strengthen the block
So anyone run any Total Seal Gapless rings in their turbo applications yet? It would seem that this would be THE application (well, short of nitrous )
I'm thinking some Ross pistons + a set of TS rings, use the 1st and 2nd TS rings, with the Ross oil ring set (since it's 3.0mm, vs TS's 4.0mm) would make for probably the best seal I could hope for, with the least blowby possible.
)I'm thinking some Ross pistons + a set of TS rings, use the 1st and 2nd TS rings, with the Ross oil ring set (since it's 3.0mm, vs TS's 4.0mm) would make for probably the best seal I could hope for, with the least blowby possible.
Again never used em but from memory those that have found they were too hard a material and in a 7M block which is also quite hard they don't get to bed in.
hey dow, dont go with toyota oil pump drive shaft bearings, they need to be "finished" unless i got the wrong set twice, the first set of aftermarket i went with did the trick,
yes i measured them while in the block and new, infact when i got the second set, i tried them on the shaft first and it was a tight fit that removed bearing materaill
i had my rod's re-sized w/ arp bolts, detressed, and beam polished, they have also been balenced a few times.
yes i measured them while in the block and new, infact when i got the second set, i tried them on the shaft first and it was a tight fit that removed bearing materaill
i had my rod's re-sized w/ arp bolts, detressed, and beam polished, they have also been balenced a few times.
IJ. said:
I heard the same...Years back I bought Total Seal rings some from a Topend Performance in LA. They use them in their 7ms.
I did not use them because I heard they did not seal properly on our cars.
Cheers,
Roy
i heard to properly seal chrome rings you "must" be hard on them during break in.
im not sure if total seal is the same thing,
im just saying what my instructions have taught us. he even said he had on set of chrome rings take over 1500 miles to seal well, they evently used some sort of engine grit they poured into the intake "liek sand he said but finer , so maybe ash like"
im not sure if total seal is the same thing,
im just saying what my instructions have taught us. he even said he had on set of chrome rings take over 1500 miles to seal well, they evently used some sort of engine grit they poured into the intake "liek sand he said but finer , so maybe ash like"
I've heard the same with the Total Seal rings - you've got to give 'em hell to get them to seat - good thing I've got a damn good tune on stock 440's + MAFT-Pro right now, eh?
Seriously, I've also heard the cross hatch pattern is INCREDIBLY important to TS gapless rings. I'll give them a call today as well
Went back and did some searching through the older threads... I think I might pass on the Ross pistons - they seem to be some of the heavier of the forgings - Don't need that @ 7200 rpm
Wiseco still seems to be my top choice (I hear they have tigher forging + longer skirts) or perhaps Arias - I understand they make a top notch piston, as well. May come down to which is lighter!
Seriously, I've also heard the cross hatch pattern is INCREDIBLY important to TS gapless rings. I'll give them a call today as well
Went back and did some searching through the older threads... I think I might pass on the Ross pistons - they seem to be some of the heavier of the forgings - Don't need that @ 7200 rpm
Wiseco still seems to be my top choice (I hear they have tigher forging + longer skirts) or perhaps Arias - I understand they make a top notch piston, as well. May come down to which is lighter!
I just dropped off my 7M yesturday to get rebuilt at a very reputable shop in Baltimore. After a long talk about which pistons, rods and bearings to use, we decided to go with Eagle H beam(ESP)rods, Arias pistons, and Clevite bearings. I originally wanted J/E pistons, but they talked me out of it, saying that the Arias were a little better because of better sizing consistancies.
As far as the eagle rods and the ARP2000 rod bolts. I talked to a MK4 owner a while back and he said the eagles with the standard ARP rod bolts were fine under 900rwhp. He was using the eagle rods with ARP2000 bolts at 840rwhp and over 100 1/4 mile passes.
As far as the eagle rods and the ARP2000 rod bolts. I talked to a MK4 owner a while back and he said the eagles with the standard ARP rod bolts were fine under 900rwhp. He was using the eagle rods with ARP2000 bolts at 840rwhp and over 100 1/4 mile passes.
We micced up my JE's and found they were perfect, I guess it depends on the operator on the day.
Are there any other piston manufacturers I'm missing? Also, anyone have the weight of a stock rod, by itself?