Planning 2014 Standalone Upgrade - Question...

[Enraged]

I like my AEM v1, and the v2 has more features. Installed and tuned could easily be done for under $3k with a good tuner.

If I were to do it all over again, I would consider a Haltech, they have some very affordable systems out now and a local tuner is apparantly very comfortable with it.

After switching to a standalone, even at my lower current power level, I would recommend it over stock ECU + piggybacks. In the end though, it is completely up to the person that tunes the car. Get a shitty tuner on a standalone, and you could be worse than stock.

 

[Grandavi]

Im lucky, because I have a good tuner. I was told not to go with the AEM because its not dynamic (as in, cannot compensate for large drops in altitude). I dont know if that's true, and the HKS one that I am looking at is way overkill for my car, however, I have never shied away from overkill because I have paid the price for going cheap and ending up spending more in time and effort than if I would have went for expensive. RCTS can do the AEM, but the more I look at it the more I think I will be going with the VconPro.

 

[IJ.]

The HKS unit doesn't have much in the way of outputs or "features", if it has enough to do what you want great but I look at a standalone as something "better" that the basics stock management can do, i.e. DBW, TRAC, PWM outputs, Boost Control and so on..

 

[Grandavi]

kk, Im a little behind you in technology. Not sure what DBW, TRAC, PWM outputs are, etc..
I believe the HKS unit is limited, but you can addon sensors. Not even sure if its the right one for me (still research and learning)

Google is my friend, but experience can skip a lot of humps. In the end, I dont want to go totally overboard cost-wise and I dont want more monitors then I need for a streetable 7M MK3. Im also not looking for maximum HP out of my engine. Just looking for good performance and bullet proof engine stability. The only one I have ruled out is Megasquirt because it is beyond my scope as a DIY stand alone. AEM is almost ruled out because I have not heard anyone refute my belief that it is not dynamic enough for a highway cruise from plains to mountains to coast.

Im not worried enough about detonation to add water/meth injection...


This is probably the most complex choice I have had to make on my car. Without understanding the basics of properly tuning a car, its like reading Greek with a Japanese tutor. Im slowly trying to figure out all the components/functions and application, but its beginning to look like a steep learning curve. My alternative is to trust my tuner it seems (basically explain what I expect, let them advise). I hate making choices without understanding the why's...

What I have looked at (and I may be barking up the wrong tree with some of these)

Infinity-8 Stand-Alone Programmable Engine Management System (not sure what the 8 stands for... )
http://www.aemelectronics.com/engin...one-programmable-engine-management-system-95/
This one seems to have all the bells and whistles and isn't that badly priced... but I cant judge how dynamic it is because of my lack of understanding the whole ball of wax.

I have also peeked at the AEM Series 2 EMS Engine Management Stand Alone system but it seems to be a bit less than what I am wanting (although probably one of the simplest)

ProEFI Pro 128 ECU
http://www.theboostlab.com/store/products/ProEFI-Pro-128-ECU.html

This one looks good as well, but again... I have no brain power to determine if its any better than anything else or if there is issues with it.
Apparently the 48 ECU is all I would need though, as I study it. The 128 is kinda for more car than I own. Looks like a fairly straight forward setup.

HKS F-CON V Pro
http://www.hkseurope.com/electronics/fcon_pro.asp

This is the one recommended to me by my tuner at this point. Bear in mind.. I have the HKS EVC-S boost controller already and the only time I will actually do anything on it is to do a scamble mode for those rare occasions that I want to do a higher boost. Otherwise.. I plan to set it and forget it.

There is a lot out there but educating myself is my first step I think. At least we have some good stickies here for me to peruse.

 

[Grandavi]

(new post because different subject matter)

From what I understand, my 88 7MGTE already has stock sensors for:

CPS, TPS, MAP (manifold absolute pressure? Do we have this in a 7MGTE?), Engine temperature (although I am not sure how good OEM sensor is), Air temperature (?), O2 Sensor, EGT Sensor, Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure (although I have the AEM AFPR and not sure how that would affect it).

Not sure what is missing or needs to be added on, but the engine is pretty well monitored as stock (albeit, not all that great as far as monitor vs control goes)

I am guessing that the tach and speedo get patched into the ECU to help it figure out all of its functions, but not sure at this point what sensors on the MK3 are sufficient and what need to be added. My original inclination is just to add the whole ball of wax, however, there is a point that more becomes troublesome and I would like to avoid unecessary input.

again, I am not shooting for high HP output, just solid reliable and reasonable power.


Also, from reading, I see that there are additional functionalities to different systems for neat little things like "shift-lights", etc... I really wish I was building for an advanced mega-HP Supra.. lol. It looks like when you climb above a certain point into this "stand alone" world.. there is a whole mountain of possibilities.

 

[SC61 MK3]

CPS, YES
TPS, YES
MAP (manifold absolute pressure? Do we have this in a 7MGTE?), NO
Engine temperature (although I am not sure how good OEM sensor is), COOLANT TEMP
Air temperature (?), NO
O2 Sensor, NARROWBAND STOCK
EGT Sensor, NO
Oil Pressure, YES
Fuel Pressure (although I have the AEM AFPR and not sure how that would affect it). NO

 

[Grandavi]

Are there sensors that should be added or upgraded? I have seen people monitoring their EGT.
I have a wideband and the stock O2 already. I dont think I need to monitor fuel pressure because I can manually see that if a problem arises (which would probably be very rare when all I am running is 550's. The fuel pump is basically new (tank was steam cleaned and pressure tested) so unless I have a failure in a line or an injector, fuel pressure should all be fine although there may be a reason I can't think of to actually monitor it.

 

[IndigoMKII]

something you could add to catch a problem before it arises is cht sensors on the sparkplugs.

 

[Grandavi]

I have heard a lot about EGT sensors, but none about people using CHT sensors. Would you use cylinder 6 sparkplug? Its just a ring at the bottom of the sparkplug if I remember right? 6 is the hottest I believe... not sure how useful the info would be though, because there is very little you can do if that spikes. I supposed it would signify a problem if it started running high instead of simply spiking... never thought of this on a MK3.. : )

 

[Flateric]

Way back when I was running my fcon/cpv etc. setup Reg had a HKS EGT guage and sensor setup and wired in for me. I think it is a fairly decent way of "watching" to see if your temps get out of hand or anything. I'll have to research this cht thing mentioned. See ya tomorow.
"

 

[IndigoMKII]

i dont know if a cht has ever been used on a mk3. i am going to be using one and yes, on cylinder 6 as it is the hottest cylinder. when you're driving you'll be able to see an average cht. and if it pulls too far from average, obviously something is wrong.

 

[SC61 MK3]

Egt is good for timing related problems that a wideband may not indicate

 

[IJ.]

Too slow to react to be of any real use other than to indicate "trends", MoTeC have an Ethernet EGT that is "fast".

 

[IndigoMKII]

Too slow to react to be of any real use other than to indicate "trends", MoTeC have an Ethernet EGT that is "fast".

isnt it similar to the temperature readings on most multimeters?

 

[Grandavi]

I was looking at the CHT and not really liking how its done if its done at the base of the sparkplug. I think I may ignore that and just settle with an EGT. For the most part, I dont truly expect those problems because I wont be hard running. Nice to have, but I am marking it as "not a necessity", unless there was a different way to tie it to the head.

 

[Funkycheeze]

One thing to think about is converting over to a manifold air pressure based (speed density) fuel metering system instead of the stock restrictive and failure prone AFM. Most modern turbo cars run speed density, as it provides reliable and accurate fuel metering, especially under boost, and it automatically compensates for altitude changes.

Basically it uses the manifold pressure (including manifold vacuum when not under boost) and air temperature, to estimate the engine's air consumption. The tuning is a little more arduous, but the results can be excellent.

After alot of tweaking (mostly related to idling, startup and driving at low to moderate throttle positions), the V1 in my car runs really well. Making over 450 WHP at about 12.5 PSI, due to the large turbo and elimination of intake and exhaust restrictions (I run a 4 inch intake tube, 2.5" intercooler plumbing and 3" exhaust with a DDP and a ceramic high flow cat).

That being said, my car doesn't get driven in coldter temperatures, but it has been on plenty of highway road trips with no issues. Biggest problem has been setting the timing map properly, as the knock sensors in the 7M are very noisy at high RPM with forged pistons, making them useless over 6000 RPM.

 

[Grandavi]

The knock sensors were a concern when I added the wiseco forged pistons, apparently wrapping them in duct tape can help silence them a little to compensate although I will attack that bear if it roars.

I was under the assumption that one of the first things to go would be the AFM with stand alone. Is my main reason for going that route

 

[Rollus]

Hey, nice plan.

I have the very same idea than you about data logging.
Here is what I come with, with tenth the budget of a standalone: http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1911771

It should be ready before my engine rebuilt ;-)

 

[Grandavi]

Yeah, I suck at "tuner brain" so far, so am going to shell out the money to make up for brain deficiency. If I had a really good grasp at it, I would be going the megasquirt 3 route, but me being stupid could cost me a lot more than letting others with more experience and knowledge hammer it out. I just want enough understanding that I dont under or over build the system for my needs. (well.. a little overbuild wont hurt and I think that overbuilding just means a couple hundred more in the sensor area)

 

[Rollus]

The voice of wisdom ;-)