Owns a TSRM

[jetjock]

That would be altarboy. And it doesn't matter what others do. It matters what you do. A man is what he does when it counts. It's pretty clear what you are, which is why I typically ignore you. Now that you've given yourself enough rope I'll be doing the same while the hanging commences.

 

[SupraMario]

Actually not at all. I was simply replying to JJ's general comment.

However:




I don't recall being "forced" to do anything. I wanted Toyota's knowlege, they named a price, I paid it.

The only people using "force" are the people stealing the manual without paying the price the rightful owner asked for it.

I'm assuming you buy brand name clothing just because you feel its better quality than the stuff from wal-mart. Being brainwashed to believe you have to pay out every penny you make because someone says its morally right is about as bad as being a slave to that company.

Bullshit, and 100% flawed logic. Your Supra was not delivered by Toyota in a disassembled, non working state. Instead of thanking Toyota for making a product that has far outlasted it's original warranty, you are using the vehicles age as a reason to justify stealing from them?!?!?!

Warranties were slapped onto a car to make the company sell more vehicles and get people to believe it will fall apart after so many miles. People are dumb enough to believe this, if only they new that basic maintenance would keep a car going way further than the "warranty". Again, bullshit fed to the public so they will buy more.

Ok, so you are stating that Toyota does not have a right to it's own intellectual property? You can always go buy a Haynes manual for $19.99 if you don't like Toyota's asking price. They created the work, they have the right to profit off of it.

Don't you feel you have a right to compensation for the work you do? If not you are more than welcome to come over here and mow my one acre back yard for free....

i bought a haynes manual and it sucked. Why the hell do I need to buy it in the first place. Again Batteries not included crap. You build something, and design it properly why the hell wouldn't you send a manual with it to help the end user. Every other thing I have bought comes with one.

When Toyota created that manual, they did so in order to be paid for it. Now you seem to think that you somehow have a right to take that property from Toyota?

Really?

Can I just arbitrarily decide what of yours you are "allowed" to keep?

No they did it to squeeze the last nickel they could from the car. They did it so rich people who bought the car wouldn't even think about wrenching on it, and would bring it to the dealer to pay $600 for a break job.
MONEY MONEY MONEY. Thats what they want from you, I'm willing to only pay so much before I feel that a product is being used no long as a means of making something great into something only worth more money.

WTF? I am mad. I didn't get the factory service manual with my TV, stove, refrigerator --- oh --- I guess I didn't get it with anything that I have bought. Moreover, I don't even have the option to get one of these manuals in most cases.

I think it's pretty nice that there is a manual like this available. It's even reasonably priced. I have some Volvo service manuals that cost about $900 each and are not as detailed as the 1989 Supra TSRM that I have. Even if you wanted to shell out the money for the Volvo manual, it is not for sale to the public.

LOL, have you ever worked on your TV? or stove? or Refrigerator? All the schematics can be sent to you from the companies, and 99% of the time they are online. Hell even dell has schematics I can get for their LCDs, and computer cases for free. Whats the deal don't like searching for it?

$900 for a manual that should come with the car? Your joking right? Thats no longer a reasonable price, that falls under you got reamed.

No one called him a thief because he uses the online TSRM. In fact the very first post I state that I use it.

This is the character you are defending:

This character is fighting the rich who get richer and the poor who are ignorant enough to use the moral crap they spew as a means to defend themselves for paying giant amounts of cash for something that should have come with a manual. I'm not a pirate because I want free stuff, I'm a pirate because I hate seeing the big guy step on the little guy so much and so often.
In the 70's they protested and rioted, Well I pirate and host.
Its time for a change, I just don't use my voice with picket signs and shouting.

"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns - or dollars. Take your choice - there is no other - and your time is running out."

Just keep that in mind, years from now, when you've "won" the war against the evil capitalist and his corporation.

Odds are you will not be the one holding the whip...

I think you have total misinterpreted Ayn Rand's quote there.

Personal character aside, I take issue with oppressive corporations that feel no responsibility or loyalty to anyone.

I also find it very disheartening that so many people would rather promote their own sense of piety than choose to exercise independent thought, or question authority.

Amen. Some times I feel that people are so brainwashed by these companies they are willing to just hand over their paychecks cause its the "moral" thing to do.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. A thief is a thief. Period. If you take rightfully owned property from someone that was not offered to you you're stealing. Doesn't matter if you sell it or not. Doesn't even matter if you derive zero benefit from taking it. Doesn't matter if it's ideas, music, code, books, or a pile of shit. It's stealing. I'm amazed all this even needs to be pointed out. Thieves are the lowest form of life on Earth. They're what pond scum wipe *their* feet on.

So your saying that the government taking my tax money for a war I don't agree with is right? In your words its theft. It is my money, I earned it fair and square, how come I cannot pay for something I believe in and let other pay for it if they believe in it.

Mike, you want fair tax, you cry for it, yet you show the exact opposite views when it comes for something so small that I believe in.

America is being bleed dry from people who think they are doing the right thing, you may as well have signed your paychecks over to the big cooperations who have you believing its the right thing to do.

 

[suprabad]

That would be altarboy. And it doesn't matter what others do. It matters what you do. A man is what he does when it counts. It's pretty clear what you are, which is why I typically ignore you. Now that you've given yourself enough rope I'll be doing the same while the hanging commences.

I'm disappointed in you. You never addressed what I actually said, (I guess it didn't serve your argument) rather you chose to try to insult me and sidestep my point.

You're a smart guy and I value that. I also value the truth, and the truth is
it wasn't necessary to publicly declare your apparent lack of respect for me as a person. I hope that I did not come accross as having no value for you or your opinion.

As far as you ignoring me, if that is your wish then that's what you will (continue to) do. I'm sorry you feel that way, I was under the impression that we were debating and issue, not deciding each others worth as people.

 

[isnms]

All the rationalization won't make piracy right.

Mike said it:

Simply put, it's the ability to accept bullshit as fact, and the ability to justify bad behavior via lies.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Couple more for "What's a TSRM". I wonder if those were legit.?

 

[OneJoeZee]

Deadcell: Dude, your logic is so convoluted and flawed I can't even begin to comprehend. It makes the vein on my head throb just trying to find rational thought in your posts.

 

[Supracentral]

I can't discuss this topic with you folks.

When basic concepts like private ownership of property can't be agreed upon, we don't have enough common ground to discuss anything sanely.

I can't wrap my head around the way some of you folks see things.

In a world where I have no right to charge for my hard work, I see no reason to work. As a matter of fact I'll refuse to do so. If you folks ever get your way, I hope I'm dead before it happens.

 

[OneJoeZee]

So true.

It's impossible to effectively debate with people who's thought processes and set of beliefs are so irrational.

 

[jetjock]

I'm disappointed in you. You never addressed what I actually said, (I guess it didn't serve your argument) rather you chose to try to insult me and sidestep my point.....

You're a smart guy and I value that. I also value the truth, and the truth is it wasn't necessary to publicly declare your apparent lack of respect for me as a person. I hope that I did not come accross as having no value for you or your opinion.

As far as you ignoring me, if that is your wish then that's what you will (continue to) do. I'm sorry you feel that way, I was under the impression that we were debating and issue, not deciding each others worth as people.

Let me make it clear yet once again: A thief is a thief. Period. I make no distinction between corporate thieves and "the bottom of the food chain". They're all scum. Theft is morally and legally wrong. Your defense of the other poster's immoral and illegal behavior as "Right. Period" is supporting and endorsing thievery, something that is lower than the actual thief himself. Your words.

By following your logic it's easy for me to judge your worth as a person, at least according to my belief system, which in that regard we happen to agree. Therefore I place no value on you or your "opinion" (as if the legality and morality of stealing is even debatable). Since from your previous comments it's obvious the feeling is mutual it appears you're also a liar. I'll leave it at that.

 

[dugums]

LOL, have you ever worked on your TV? or stove? or Refrigerator? All the schematics can be sent to you from the companies, and 99% of the time they are online. Hell even dell has schematics I can get for their LCDs, and computer cases for free. Whats the deal don't like searching for it?

$900 for a manual that should come with the car? Your joking right? Thats no longer a reasonable price, that falls under you got reamed.

Yes, I have actually fixed my TV, stove AND refrigerator. It is why I used those as examples. You can find some schematics and diagrams via the internet and occasionally a company will be kind enough to send information your way.

In no way is it as easy to find as you are implying. Moreover, the TSRM is not only a book of diagrams, it is a step-by-step repair guide.

Even if there are other companies that provide you with complimentary comprehensive product repair guides, it doesn't mean that all companies have to do the same. A TSRM is intellectual property. If Toyota chooses to sell it's property rather than give it away, that is their right.

If you have a problem with intellectual property rights, you may want to think about how the world might work without it. There would be no online TSRM. I suspect you would not be posting on SM - because it would not exist.

If you truly believe that pirating is not wrong (as it is clear you know it is that which you are doing) I would like to hear a cohesive and direct argument to that effect. I am sure it could spark a nice philosophical conversation about the woes of our disjointed society. But I suspect you are just a cheap bastard who thinks that the world is yours to do with whatever you please.

 

[suprabad]

Let me make it clear yet once again: A thief is a thief. Period. I make no distinction between corporate thieves and "the bottom of the food chain". They're all scum. Theft is morally and legally wrong. Your defense of the other poster's immoral and illegal behavior as "Right. Period" is supporting and endorsing thievery, something that is lower than the actual thief himself. Your words.

By following your logic it's easy for me to judge your worth as a person, at least according to my belief system, which in that regard we happen to agree. Therefore I place no value on you or your "opinion" (as if the legality and morality of stealing is even debatable). Since from your previous comments it's obvious the feeling is mutual it appears you're also a liar. I'll leave it at that.

I think you're being unfair, and mischaracterizing what I said. You surely didn't get my point. I was speaking to the idea of singling out a particular branch of thievery and pointing the finger without acknowledging that it rolls down from the top. Do you really think I would endorse theft in a public forum?? How stupid is that?

What you have done is what you typically do, which is jump on the wagon and try to crucify someone without any regard for the truth, or the spirit of what was trying to be said. You made it personal by repeatedly calling my character and honesty into question, and insulted me to the best of your ability.

I tried to be polite and salvage the situation in spite of your disrespect. I was rewarded with more insults and called a liar, something I guarantee you would not have the courage to say to me face to face.

Clearly, you are a sad, mean spirited little man who attempts to elevate his anemic self esteem by belittling people behind the safety of your keyboard.

You sir, are a coward and a bully. I feel sorry for you.

 

[suprabad]

So true.

It's impossible to effectively debate with people who's thought processes and set of beliefs are so irrational.

Good job kissing ass.

 

[OfnaRcR4]

I have both.

 

[OneJoeZee]

I don't kiss anyone's ass on this forum.

But thanks.

Good job kissing ass.

 

[JustAnotherVictim]

I find it sad that's there's so much bitching about a book that costs $60 or so but saves you hundreds to thousands.
Yea what a rip off that is....

 

[Wayne G.]

There is some really flawed logic here and a serious misunderstanding of
capitalism or the way business works. Just be glad "I" don't own Toyota
the TRSM (a low demand - compared to all the other cars they make) would be more than $60. Companys are in business to make money and they anwser to shareholders and investers. The factory repair manual is not a big money maker in fact I douby if any repair manual is a money maker for any car maker. If Toyota Gave away the TRSM for the Supra they would have to give it away for ALL their models - now your talking a fair amt of money. If you don't like one companys practices buy elsewhere (GM - Ford - Nissan - Honda etc) THAT is your choice NOT stealing.
As to admitting (in a public forum) to online piracy and hosting - be sure and tell the judge when you are caught that was really "ok" because the recording cos. charge to much Im sure he will understand--------

 

[Supracentral]

Ok, this thread gets the lock. It's become too political for the general section, and it's just not worth moving to the politics section.