I HATE AUTOMATICS!!
- Thread starter Doward
- Start date
nosechunks said:
Actually, Stock for Stock:
5 Speed R154 Turbo Supra: 0-60 @ 6.5 seconds.
4 Speed A340E Turbo Supra: 0-60 @ 6.2 seconds.
Thanks.
My last post concerning Autos vs. Manuals. Remember numbers don't lie.
Manuals have 5 forward gears for better fuel economy right now thats whuts up!
There are way more auto to manual conversions than vice versa. As a matter of fact I'll bet dollars to dougnuts there is far more tech info on such conversion on this very site!
A stock R154 stock has much more horsepower holding capability than a stock A340E. Go ahead and get that auto built, probably more expensive than auto to manual conversion, show me 2 guys that have 5spds and want to convert to automatic.
Two identical 7M's in the same condition. One is an auto the other manual. Which one do you think conmmads more dough, it aint the auto......HMMM. Finally just because you and I own autos, it doesn't make them suck any less 'nuff said and being the native NYC product that I am, I'm moving on.Peace, luv and hair grease.
Manuals have 5 forward gears for better fuel economy right now thats whuts up!
There are way more auto to manual conversions than vice versa. As a matter of fact I'll bet dollars to dougnuts there is far more tech info on such conversion on this very site!
A stock R154 stock has much more horsepower holding capability than a stock A340E. Go ahead and get that auto built, probably more expensive than auto to manual conversion, show me 2 guys that have 5spds and want to convert to automatic.
Two identical 7M's in the same condition. One is an auto the other manual. Which one do you think conmmads more dough, it aint the auto......HMMM. Finally just because you and I own autos, it doesn't make them suck any less 'nuff said and being the native NYC product that I am, I'm moving on.Peace, luv and hair grease.
Jspec7m88 said:Actually, Stock for Stock:
5 Speed R154 Turbo Supra: 0-60 @ 6.5 seconds.
4 Speed A340E Turbo Supra: 0-60 @ 6.2 seconds.
Thanks.
im aware of that, and i didnt say they were slower, but a stock auto is alot less fun then one with the 2 dollars in accumulator mods.
didnt u see im defending the auto?? lol
SupraDread said:
and thats because everyone wants a 5 speed for the fun factor. a stock r154 CAN gold more then a stock a340, ur correct, but the stock clutch wont like it very much. i figure a rebuild with good clutches and accumulator mods without getting to crazy with the valvebody would be about 1000 including a converter. a good clutch for the r154 is around 400-500, plus the ightened flywheel for about 300-400. its only slightly cheaper to go the 5 speed route.
SupraDread said:
it CAN shift for u if u dont feel like shifting doesnt mean it HAS to. ever hear of manual valve bodies? they have to be manually shifted. the purpose of our car was to be a comfortable luxury cruiser, does that mean we cant make them fast?
Nahhh, Nosechunks, you my boy.
I was just stating it...but hey, no doubt, with crappy stock boost on a poopy stock turbo, a BONE STOCK Supra would of course, be funner to drive than a bone stock Auto.
Now, when people say, "Maaan, Dem Auto's are no fun to drive".
Well, if you're driving an Automatic 1990 Ford Tempo,....chances are you're probably right...but if any of you haters would like to take a trip to Greenwood, Indiana, I'll show you just how "not fun" MY SUPRA IS.
Let me tell you, it's SOOOOO boring driving my Supra...Yeah....
Yeah...
NO.
Wrong.
Yes, it's funner to drive a manual strictly because of the fact that you get to control your gears with a clutch and all......
Wow. I'm getting a headache. I'm a simple-minded and down to earth guy, and to say it simple enough, my head is hurting so badly because I have all sorts of not so friendly things I'd like to say about a certain person...But my opinion is wrong...Duh. Okay, I'm unsubscribing to this thread of uselessness and going on with my O-so-cool life.
Jeff
I was just stating it...but hey, no doubt, with crappy stock boost on a poopy stock turbo, a BONE STOCK Supra would of course, be funner to drive than a bone stock Auto.
Now, when people say, "Maaan, Dem Auto's are no fun to drive".
Well, if you're driving an Automatic 1990 Ford Tempo,....chances are you're probably right...but if any of you haters would like to take a trip to Greenwood, Indiana, I'll show you just how "not fun" MY SUPRA IS.
Let me tell you, it's SOOOOO boring driving my Supra...Yeah....
Yeah...
NO.
Wrong.
Yes, it's funner to drive a manual strictly because of the fact that you get to control your gears with a clutch and all......
Wow. I'm getting a headache. I'm a simple-minded and down to earth guy, and to say it simple enough, my head is hurting so badly because I have all sorts of not so friendly things I'd like to say about a certain person...But my opinion is wrong...Duh.
Okay, I'm unsubscribing to this thread of uselessness and going on with my O-so-cool life. Jeff
alright well lets see. Why do i drive manual:
I like putting the car in whatever gear i feel like, not what the car feels like
I like having a clutch
I hate rebuilding transmissions
I hate everyone that drives an automatic and gets butthurt when somone speaks otherwise
I never eat while i drive
I almost never cellphone while i drive
Clutches are cheaper than transmissions
Other reasons (that i don't nessacarily subscribe to):
Girls like dudes who can drive stick
Manual requires all limbs to be involved in controlling the car, a more involving experience
Modern Day Automatics
modern day race automatics are out of necessity to create a faster, more reliable shift. some cars have clutched automatic transmissions, not torque converters. I have driven modern automatics and i think they are a step in the drivable direction, but as for old cars like the supra, automatics are garbage, i feel
and on another note, i steer away from automatics because there are a few people in the automatic crowd that i think are fucking dirty bastards that should not be allowed to breathe the same air as the rest of us, you know who you are.
I like putting the car in whatever gear i feel like, not what the car feels like
I like having a clutch
I hate rebuilding transmissions
I hate everyone that drives an automatic and gets butthurt when somone speaks otherwise
I never eat while i drive
I almost never cellphone while i drive
Clutches are cheaper than transmissions
Other reasons (that i don't nessacarily subscribe to):
Girls like dudes who can drive stick
Manual requires all limbs to be involved in controlling the car, a more involving experience
Modern Day Automatics
modern day race automatics are out of necessity to create a faster, more reliable shift. some cars have clutched automatic transmissions, not torque converters. I have driven modern automatics and i think they are a step in the drivable direction, but as for old cars like the supra, automatics are garbage, i feel
and on another note, i steer away from automatics because there are a few people in the automatic crowd that i think are fucking dirty bastards that should not be allowed to breathe the same air as the rest of us, you know who you are.
Wow... a great read...
I made it to 6 and had to stop because it was a bunch of bitching and moaning back and forth...
Did anyone ever make the point of "because your DD is a 5sp you may not necesarilly know how to actually 'drive' it" ? I know a lot of people who drive 5 speeds and suck a big hairy one.
My 89T will be an auto... why? Because I don't want to hack it into a 5sp and I'd also like for my GF to be able to drive it *she has NO intentions on learning how to drive a 5sp* and see why WE love our Supras so much. Oh, and it will be harder to sell, so I wont be as tempted to sell it. :icon_bigg
My 82 is a 5sp... why? Because it was when I got it... Do I drive it to it's full potential? I seriously doubt it. I just like having somethnig to do without being one of those people that drive with their hands on the auto stick and down shift into 2nd gear whenever they're in city limits of any kind.
Did the guy w/ the leaky pan ever get it fixed, btw?
I made it to 6 and had to stop because it was a bunch of bitching and moaning back and forth...
Did anyone ever make the point of "because your DD is a 5sp you may not necesarilly know how to actually 'drive' it" ? I know a lot of people who drive 5 speeds and suck a big hairy one.
My 89T will be an auto... why? Because I don't want to hack it into a 5sp and I'd also like for my GF to be able to drive it *she has NO intentions on learning how to drive a 5sp* and see why WE love our Supras so much. Oh, and it will be harder to sell, so I wont be as tempted to sell it. :icon_bigg
My 82 is a 5sp... why? Because it was when I got it... Do I drive it to it's full potential? I seriously doubt it. I just like having somethnig to do without being one of those people that drive with their hands on the auto stick and down shift into 2nd gear whenever they're in city limits of any kind.
Did the guy w/ the leaky pan ever get it fixed, btw?
"I like putting the car in whatever gear i feel like, not what the car feels like"
Thats what the shifter on an auto is for
"I hate rebuilding transmissions"
build it right the first time and dont worrie aobut it
"I hate everyone that drives an automatic and gets butthurt when somone
speaks otherwise"
Yet u would defend ur 5 speed if someone said 5 speeds sucks autos FTW. noones "butthurt", ur bashing on something we like, u expect us to say thanks?
"Clutches are cheaper than transmissions"
not nessisaraly, a rebuild kit for the a340 with blue friction clutches and all that god stuff is about 500 bucks, about the same as a good clutch. lucky me i dont have to pay labor cause ill do it myself.
"Manual requires all limbs to be involved in controlling the car, a more involving experience"
I agree again
i dont think any auto guy said 5 speeds are bad, or not fun to drive. all were saying is that sure its fun to drive but the auto out performs all. i personally have no problem with a 5 speed, my daily driver toyota pickup is a 5 speed and i have a blast drivin that thing.
Thats what the shifter on an auto is for
"I hate rebuilding transmissions"
build it right the first time and dont worrie aobut it
"I hate everyone that drives an automatic and gets butthurt when somone
speaks otherwise"
Yet u would defend ur 5 speed if someone said 5 speeds sucks autos FTW. noones "butthurt", ur bashing on something we like, u expect us to say thanks?
"Clutches are cheaper than transmissions"
not nessisaraly, a rebuild kit for the a340 with blue friction clutches and all that god stuff is about 500 bucks, about the same as a good clutch. lucky me i dont have to pay labor cause ill do it myself.
"Manual requires all limbs to be involved in controlling the car, a more involving experience"
I agree again
i dont think any auto guy said 5 speeds are bad, or not fun to drive. all were saying is that sure its fun to drive but the auto out performs all. i personally have no problem with a 5 speed, my daily driver toyota pickup is a 5 speed and i have a blast drivin that thing.
NC, you're missing the fact that if you put the selector in D, you aren't in 3rd. Go slow enough, and it'll down shift to 2nd, and 1st. What if I WANT 3rd at 1000rpm, so I can load the engine at that point? An automatic, without any modification, can not do that.
You NEVER have FULL control in an automatic, the way you do with a stick shift, unless you go with a manual valve body. But then, I don't see why you didn't go with a manual in the first place
Thanks
Mods, go ahead and shut this thread down. There's no information to be gleaned here, and it was just me ranting about the work I had to do to my own auto - that I pointed out I wouldn't have had to do to a manual tranny.
No, dude, I wouldn't. If that's their opinion, that is their opinion. What the hell is with this 'omg *I* can sooooo totally have an opinion, but OMG YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!'
Fuck that. I'm free to say automatics suck. You're free to say 'I don't think so.' Your (You being all the flamers in here) inability to accept someone doesn't think the same thing that you do, is IMHO, a complete lack of regard for your fellow man.
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it."
Accept there will be people on the other side of the fence, and move the hell on. If someone pipes up with 'OMG automatics suck because you can't control the gear it is in!' that would be an excellent opportunity to point them to a manual valve body. You don't need to bash teh guy's thinking - just enlighten them, if they are factually wrong about something.
Mods, please kill this thread.
You NEVER have FULL control in an automatic, the way you do with a stick shift, unless you go with a manual valve body. But then, I don't see why you didn't go with a manual in the first place
Thanks
Mods, go ahead and shut this thread down. There's no information to be gleaned here, and it was just me ranting about the work I had to do to my own auto - that I pointed out I wouldn't have had to do to a manual tranny.
nosechunks said:
No, dude, I wouldn't. If that's their opinion, that is their opinion. What the hell is with this 'omg *I* can sooooo totally have an opinion, but OMG YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!'
Fuck that. I'm free to say automatics suck. You're free to say 'I don't think so.' Your (You being all the flamers in here) inability to accept someone doesn't think the same thing that you do, is IMHO, a complete lack of regard for your fellow man.
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it."
Accept there will be people on the other side of the fence, and move the hell on. If someone pipes up with 'OMG automatics suck because you can't control the gear it is in!' that would be an excellent opportunity to point them to a manual valve body. You don't need to bash teh guy's thinking - just enlighten them, if they are factually wrong about something.
Mods, please kill this thread.
You are missing the fact that you do not have a torque converter that multiplies engine torque on accleration. So with an "automatic" you can control the gear, engine speed, and have the torque converter.
How does it multiply torque exactly, hmm? Oh, by slipping like hell... which increases the heat in the ATF.
#1 killer of automatics? Overheating.
That slipping is also where you introduce the increased drivetrain loss. So yeah, you might have torque 'multiplication' (which, I want to point out, is usually in the 1.7-2.4x) UNTIL YOU HIT THE STALL SPEED OF THE STATOR (1800 rpm on our cars?) but after that, you'll find the stick shift putting down MORE power than the automatic, until you shift - unless you power shift it.
Unless you're talking a 3000+ rpm stall convertor, the torque multiplication isn't as large a factor as most people make out. Do you race under 1800 rpm?
WHY ISN'T THIS THREAD DEAD.
#1 killer of automatics? Overheating.
That slipping is also where you introduce the increased drivetrain loss. So yeah, you might have torque 'multiplication' (which, I want to point out, is usually in the 1.7-2.4x) UNTIL YOU HIT THE STALL SPEED OF THE STATOR (1800 rpm on our cars?) but after that, you'll find the stick shift putting down MORE power than the automatic, until you shift - unless you power shift it.
Unless you're talking a 3000+ rpm stall convertor, the torque multiplication isn't as large a factor as most people make out. Do you race under 1800 rpm?
WHY ISN'T THIS THREAD DEAD.
"How does it multiply torque exactly, hmm? Oh, by slipping like hell... which increases the heat in the ATF."
actuall its the way the fins are designed in the torque converter, to move the car it uses pressurised fluid that is pushed from the engine side fin to the tranny side fin, that push is the multiplication, also it multiplys torque anytime it isnt locked and has power applied.
"That slipping is also where you introduce the increased drivetrain loss. So yeah, you might have torque 'multiplication' (which, I want to point out, is usually in the 1.7-2.4x) UNTIL YOU HIT THE STALL SPEED OF THE STATOR (1800 rpm on our cars?) but after that, you'll find the stick shift putting down MORE power than the automatic, until you shift - unless you power shift it."
the stator doesnt set the stall speed, its the design of the fins inside, the stator just gives it the torque multiplication for acceleration and when power is removed allows it to freewheel. it only directs the fluid from one fin to the other in a more powerfull stream. the drive train loss in an automatic is from spinning more components AND a the front pump, the slipping converter isnt exactaly a loss because its multiplying torque.
"Unless you're talking a 3000+ rpm stall convertor, the torque multiplication isn't as large a factor as most people make out. Do you race under 1800 rpm?"
well since u want to hold 3rd gear at 1000rpm i guess u do. again the multiplication is provided anytime the converter isnt locked.
"WHY ISN'T THIS THREAD DEAD."
This thread shouldnt die, it should stay and be talked out that way there wont be another in 3 months.
actuall its the way the fins are designed in the torque converter, to move the car it uses pressurised fluid that is pushed from the engine side fin to the tranny side fin, that push is the multiplication, also it multiplys torque anytime it isnt locked and has power applied.
"That slipping is also where you introduce the increased drivetrain loss. So yeah, you might have torque 'multiplication' (which, I want to point out, is usually in the 1.7-2.4x) UNTIL YOU HIT THE STALL SPEED OF THE STATOR (1800 rpm on our cars?) but after that, you'll find the stick shift putting down MORE power than the automatic, until you shift - unless you power shift it."
the stator doesnt set the stall speed, its the design of the fins inside, the stator just gives it the torque multiplication for acceleration and when power is removed allows it to freewheel. it only directs the fluid from one fin to the other in a more powerfull stream. the drive train loss in an automatic is from spinning more components AND a the front pump, the slipping converter isnt exactaly a loss because its multiplying torque.
"Unless you're talking a 3000+ rpm stall convertor, the torque multiplication isn't as large a factor as most people make out. Do you race under 1800 rpm?"
well since u want to hold 3rd gear at 1000rpm i guess u do. again the multiplication is provided anytime the converter isnt locked.
"WHY ISN'T THIS THREAD DEAD."
This thread shouldnt die, it should stay and be talked out that way there wont be another in 3 months.
"NC, you're missing the fact that if you put the selector in D, you aren't in 3rd. Go slow enough, and it'll down shift to 2nd, and 1st. What if I WANT 3rd at 1000rpm, so I can load the engine at that point? An automatic, without any modification, can not do that."
like all my posts say an automatic that is built for what u want is better performing then a manual. i never said stock autos are better then manuals.
"You NEVER have FULL control in an automatic, the way you do with a stick shift, unless you go with a manual valve body. But then, I don't see why you didn't go with a manual in the first place
Thanks"
u get a manual valve body so that u can have all the advantages of gear selection but still have the fast shifts and torque multiplication.
"No, dude, I wouldn't. If that's their opinion, that is their opinion. What the hell is with this 'omg *I* can sooooo totally have an opinion, but OMG YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!'"
i never said shut up, or dont say that oor anything to that extent. i even said u can have ur opinion and im happy for u, but saying autos suck becasue u prefer manual is rediculious
"Fuck that. I'm free to say automatics suck. You're free to say 'I don't think so.' Your (You being all the flamers in here) inability to accept someone doesn't think the same thing that you do, is IMHO, a complete lack of regard for your fellow man."
again, i have said congradulations on having ur own opinion, but to say autos suck and bash them because u prefer a manual is rediculious.
"Accept there will be people on the other side of the fence, and move the hell on. If someone pipes up with 'OMG automatics suck because you can't control the gear it is in!' that would be an excellent opportunity to point them to a manual valve body. You don't need to bash teh guy's thinking - just enlighten them, if they are factually wrong about something."
it seems ur the one who cant accept that because u bash autos and insist on saying they suck, i never have said manuals suck or anything like that. the only one bashing and hating here is you.
"Mods, please kill this thread."
please let this thread live so it will be the last.
like all my posts say an automatic that is built for what u want is better performing then a manual. i never said stock autos are better then manuals.
"You NEVER have FULL control in an automatic, the way you do with a stick shift, unless you go with a manual valve body. But then, I don't see why you didn't go with a manual in the first place
Thanks
"u get a manual valve body so that u can have all the advantages of gear selection but still have the fast shifts and torque multiplication.
"No, dude, I wouldn't. If that's their opinion, that is their opinion. What the hell is with this 'omg *I* can sooooo totally have an opinion, but OMG YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!'"
i never said shut up, or dont say that oor anything to that extent. i even said u can have ur opinion and im happy for u, but saying autos suck becasue u prefer manual is rediculious
"Fuck that. I'm free to say automatics suck. You're free to say 'I don't think so.' Your (You being all the flamers in here) inability to accept someone doesn't think the same thing that you do, is IMHO, a complete lack of regard for your fellow man."
again, i have said congradulations on having ur own opinion, but to say autos suck and bash them because u prefer a manual is rediculious.
"Accept there will be people on the other side of the fence, and move the hell on. If someone pipes up with 'OMG automatics suck because you can't control the gear it is in!' that would be an excellent opportunity to point them to a manual valve body. You don't need to bash teh guy's thinking - just enlighten them, if they are factually wrong about something."
it seems ur the one who cant accept that because u bash autos and insist on saying they suck, i never have said manuals suck or anything like that. the only one bashing and hating here is you.
"Mods, please kill this thread.
"please let this thread live so it will be the last.
The thread is still going because people are misstating things and spinning others, such as yourself.Doward said:
You want to compare an OEM automatic to a street/strip manual.
A slipping trans is a seperate issue from the torque converter. A failed torque converter simply won't accelerate hard due to the fluid coupling not mulitplying (from a bad stator), and the gears are normally taller in an automatic.
Manual transmission = more efficient at putting power to the pavement.
Automatic transmission = easier to control the power being put to the pavement.
Automatic transmission = easier to control the power being put to the pavement.
You know, you're right. Let me edit it.... I was way too harsh on that :3d_frown: Sorry about that! No point in feeding the flames.