Global Warming is over. (Really, it is. No joke.)

Joel W.

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Nov 7, 2005
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OK dammit, one more, Michael Crichton himself.

Crichton has admitted to once, during his undergraduate study, plagiarizing a work by George Orwell and submitting it as his own. The paper was received by his professor with a mark of "B−". Crichton has stated that the plagiarism was not intended to defraud the school, but rather as an experiment. Crichton believed that the professor in question had been intentionally giving him abnormally low marks, and so as an experiment Crichton informed another professor of his idea and submitted Orwell's paper as his own. Crichton admitted to plagiarizing when he was on the stand in the course of a lawsuit trying to defend the authenticity of Twister, a movie which one individual claimed was based on his story entitled "Catch the Wind".

"Aliens Cause Global Warming"
In 2003 he gave a controversial lecture at Caltech entitled "Aliens Cause Global Warming" [3] in which he expressed his views of the dangers of consensus science and junk science—especially with regard to what he regards as popular but disputed theories such as nuclear winter, the dangers of second-hand smoke and the global warming controversy. Crichton has been critical of widespread belief of ETs and UFOs, citing the fact that there is no conclusive proof of their existence. Crichton has commented that belief without a factual basis is more akin to faith

[F]lawed or misleading presentations of Global Warming science exist in the book, including those on Arctic sea ice thinning, correction of land-based temperature measurements for the urban heat island effect, and satellite vs. ground-based measurements of Earth's warming. I will spare the reader additional details. On the positive side, Crichton does emphasize the little-appreciated fact that while most of the world has been warming the past few decades, most of Antarctica has seen a cooling trend. The Antarctic ice sheet is actually expected in increase in mass over the next 100 years due to increased precipitation, according to the IPCC (although recent findings by NASA call this result into question). Additionally, Crichton correctly points out that there has been no rise in hurricane activity in the Atlantic over the past few decades (a point unchanged by the record four hurricanes that struck Florida in 2004).

Another criticism of Crichton's novels is that they are generally based on the conceit of a "false revolution": while the novels describe potentially world-changing concepts such as alien plagues, cloned dinosaurs, and time travel, the books seem to always end with the threat destroyed or the scientific breakthrough lost. In other words, the events described in the novels might as well never have happened in the context of their fictional universes. Critics feel that this allows Crichton to avoid having to describe how, for example, time travel or cloning of extinct animals would change society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton


I will stick to the real scientists and their opinions and or wait for his movie to come out.

Show me someone (anyone, scientists prefered.) who does not have an invested interest in oil, gas, coal, money, or fame that says GW is a hoax.....Please. I dare you all... :)
 

Nick M

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I will stick to the real scientists and their opinions and or wait for his movie to come out.

Show me someone (anyone, scientists prefered.) who does not have an invested interest in oil, gas, coal, money, or fame that says GW is a hoax.....Please. I dare you all...
Like Al Gore?

If the left doesn't like what science finds, they question who found it. Instead of questioning wether or not the previous theories are correct, they attack the findings citing a politcal agenda. Pot meet kettle.

The sun controls our weather.

http://www.sel.noaa.gov/info/Cycle23.html <----warning reading that link will be hazardous to your liberal health.

http://web.dmi.dk/solar-terrestrial/space_weather/

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/stp/SOLAR/solarda3.html

National Geophysical Data Center said:
The National Geophysical Data Center (NGDC) is compiling a comprehensive solar database for use in global change models. Solar radiation drives the weather machine. Variations in the Sun's radiative output impact the Earth's climate.

Solar radiation drives the weather machine. Variations in the Sun's output IMPACT the earths climate. Those aren't little words, drive and IMPACT.

http://www.agu.org/revgeophys/reid00/node2.html#SECTION00020000000000000000

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA203.html <-----this piece is an op-ed, but true nonetheless.

The earths atmosphere is 79% nitrogen, 20% oxygen(or slightly different,depending on whose book you are reading), and the rest is trace elements. Of those trace elements, the earth produces 96% of the CO2, and man makes 4% through unatural process. Cliff notes, man makes 1/25 of a half percent of the atmopshere, and it is changing the other 99.98%-that is marxists claims, global warming.

http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/1997/11.06/BrighteningSuni.html

http://www.physorg.com/news6892.html

About Al Gores movie...

Richard S. Lindzen said:
A general characteristic of Mr. Gore's approach is to assiduously ignore the fact that the earth and its climate are dynamic; they are always changing even without any external forcing. To treat all change as something to fear is bad enough; to do so in order to exploit that fear is much worse. Regardless, these items are clearly not issues over which debate is ended--at least not in terms of the actual science.

...nonscientists generally do not want to bother with understanding the science. Claims of consensus relieve policy types, environmental advocates and politicians of any need to do so. Such claims also serve to intimidate the public and even scientists--especially those outside the area of climate dynamics. Secondly, given that the question of human attribution largely cannot be resolved, its use in promoting visions of disaster constitutes nothing so much as a bait-and-switch scam. That is an inauspicious beginning to what Mr. Gore claims is not a political issue but a "moral" crusade.

Lastly, there is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition. An earlier attempt at this was accompanied by tragedy. Perhaps Marx was right. This time around we may have farce--if we're lucky.

Perhaps the global warming crowd over at National Geographic(wiki in print) can explain the "global warming" that is occuring on Mars that mimics our climate change? Dick Cheneys' fault perhaps?

Is Harvard, Duke, MIT, NASA, National Geophysical Data Center scientists reasonable enough? Suppose Big Oil paid them to do the study? It doesn't change the findings.

Climate change can and does happen. We do not yet have enough information to determine if we are currently heating or cooling. I would prefer palm trees in my home state of Ohio though.
 

Joel W.

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Is Al Gore a scientist? I think not.. He has his own motives and I don't think he qualifies as an expert. Not saying he is wrong, just not a scientist.

Your first link is 10 years old and no one is saying the sun does not play a role in our weather here. It is one factor. There are others. Please refrain from calling me names here. I will not attack you and I do not appreaciate it, however, If you mean liberal as in this definition, Traditionally, the word liberal means to be open to new ideas and tolerant of others, then thank you but I am more of a centralist that leans to the right. It's not left or right Nick, It is right and wrong.

I am just the messenger. Thanks.. Ohh and 6000 years old huh? That is funny. I should address that in your evo thread, not here.

Same thing goes for your second link, Except that it is 8 years old and I am not disputing it.

As far as your third, fourth and fifth link, they are also 8 to 11 years old, Try reading something current...Same thing though.. no arguments here, but the sun is not the only factor in our weather and most people realize this by todays standards.

Your sixth link is 9 years old and also says "We're not saying that variations in solar activity account for all of the global rise in temperature that we are experiencing," cautions her CfA colleague, astrophysicist Willie Soon. "But we believe these variations are the major driving force. Heat-trapping gases emitted by smokestacks and vehicles -- the so-called greenhouse effect -- appear to be secondary." That does not dispute global man made changes, Does it?

Your seventh link is current, but I don't think you read it very well. See below.

"The physicists said that their findings indicate that climate models of global warming need to be corrected for the effects of changes in solar activity. However, they emphasized that their findings do not argue against the basic theory that significant global warming is occurring because of carbon dioxide and other "greenhouse" gases."

Did you miss that last part or did you just choose to ignore it?

Nick said:
Perhaps the global warming crowd over at National Geographic(wiki in print) can explain the "global warming" that is occurring on Mars that mimics our climate change? Dick Cheneys' fault perhaps?

Let's just stick to planet earth for this discussion please and stay on topic.. Dick Cheney (way big oil if there ever was one)? Not a scientist..

Name names and post your reasons why and I will be happy to investigate them. It might change their findings if they were paid enough to do so...

So you still don't know if we are warming or cooling? The author of the book in question here even admits it's getting warmer. He also believes in Aliens and once said they are the reason it is getting warmer. :nuts:

Again, just one real scientist that says it is not man made global warming that is effecting our current rate of temp increase here on earth. (rate is the key word here)

I am not a politician, fear monger or a greedy shithead so rest at ease.

Next... Anyone....I'll wait here patiently....I admit at the beggining of this thread last year I was not willing to debate the cause of global warming. After further educating myself on this topic, over the last year, I am ready now to do so.. ;)
 

Nick M

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Let's just stick to planet earth for this discussion please and stay on topic.. Dick Cheney? Not a scientist
No shit. I was saying is global warming on Mars his fault?

Why is global warming on Mars the same as here?

It is one factor. There are others
and...

"But we believe these variations are the major driving force. Heat-trapping gases emitted by smokestacks and vehicles -- the so-called greenhouse effect -- appear to be secondary."

I didn't refer to you Joel at any point except where I pointed out that Al Gore, the major source cited in the national press, is a politician, and has no background in science.

If I post a link about gravity from Issac Newton, are you going to say that is hundreds of years old? Nothing has changed in either case. Only the amount of hysteria from the left. If it is so bad Joel, why don't you park your Supra? That is not a rhetorical question, I would like an answer please.
 

Joel W.

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Nick M said:
I pointed out that Al Gore, the major source cited in the national press, is a politician, and has no background in science.
I completelty agree here. It just so happend that the scientists agree with him. That is not their fault. lol

If I post a link about gravity from Issac Newton, are you going to say that is hundreds of years old?

Yes, if there is new information out that now refutes it, yes.

Nothing has changed in either case. Only the amount of hysteria from the left.

We disagree here that nothing has changed. I say get new politicians.

If it is so bad Joel, why don't you park your Supra? That is not a rhetorical question, I would like an answer please.

I never said I was a "practicing enviromentalist" I have done my share of damage here. I am just as guilty as the rest of us. however I did just repair my egr and installed a new cat so I am at least making an effort to change. If the supra was a daily driver and I had to commute to work I would sell it or get something with better fuel mileage. It is a toy, planet killing toy. Coal is the major problem not so much gasoline imo. They both are bad but one burns cleaner. If things do not change soon, I just might sell it.
 

Nick M

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Yes, if there is new information out that now refutes it, yes.
No, and here is why.

suncycle_temps_0108_02.jpg

50 years from now, these observations from the late 1800's or whenever will still be relevant.

"Solar activity has apparently been going upward for a century or more," Willson told SPACE.com today.

Scientists, industry leaders and environmentalists have argued for years whether humans have contributed to global warming, and to what extent. The average surface temperature around the globe has risen by about 1 degree Fahrenheit since 1880. Some scientists say the increase could be part of natural climate cycles. Others argue that greenhouse gases produced by automobiles and industry are largely to blame.
as seen with this quote...

That does not mean industrial pollution has not been a significant factor, Willson cautioned.
Scientists and enviormentalists are two different groups. But they are not presented that way on the Today show with Katie Couric. A Castro loving hippie who uses frases like "big oil" is simply called a scientist by Hanoi Janes understudy.

Changes in the solar cycle -- and solar output -- are known to cause short-term climate change on Earth. At solar max, Earth's thin upper atmosphere can see a doubling of temperature. It swells, and denser air can puff up to the region of space where the International Space Station orbits, causing increased drag on the ship and forcing more frequent boosts from space shuttles.

It might seem logical to assume tie climate to solar output, but firm connections are few. Other studies looking further back in time have suggested a connection between longer variations in solar activity and temperatures on Earth.

Solar activity was lowest during the 17th Century, when Earth was most frigid.

The new study shows that the TSI has increased by about 0.1 percent over 24 years. That is not enough to cause notable climate change, Willson and his colleagues say, unless the rate of change were maintained for a century or more.

In what could be the simplest explanation for one component of global warming, a new study shows the Sun's radiation has increased by .05 percent per decade since the late 1970s.


Point being, Al Gore and other enviromentalists are grossly exagerating a belief or consensus in the theory that man can change the climate.

That 3 year old page, because it didn't come out yesterday, that the latest solar max was supposed to be over in 2000, then repeaked in 2002, and decline by 2006. If you look at the graph, the earth temps follow the sun activity, they don't trace it step for step. But when todays data is presented a few years from now, I think it will show the same thing.
 

Joel W.

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Yes, I will state again for the 3rd or 4th time, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE EVIDENCE OF SOLAR CYCLES... Is that clear enough for you? But you need to look at other data also and not just that one factor.

Again, don't blame the scientists because Al Gore believes in their work. Please do your own research and make up your own mind.

Climate_Change_Attribution.png


Still waiting for some scientist names that agree with you Nick.
 

Nick M

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A Castro loving hippie who uses frases like "big oil" is simply called a scientist by Hanoi Janes understudy
That was a loaded comment. LOL.

Still waiting for some scientist names that agree with you Nick.

Richard S. Lindzen, an atmospheric science professor at MIT

Sallie Baliunas, an astronomer at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics

Willie Soon an astronomer at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics

Nicola Scafetta, an associate research scientist working at Duke's physics department

Bruce West, a Duke adjunct physics professor

John Carlisle, Director of The National Center for Public Policy Research's Environmental Policy Task Force

H.E. Coffey, E.H. Erwin and C.D. Hanchett Solar-Terrestrial Physics Division
NOAA NESDIS National Geophysical Data Center
325 Broadway, Boulder, Colorado 80305

Authors of various articles I linked to.

But you need to look at other data also and not just that one factor.

No. That is not the position presented in National Geographic, US News and World Report, Time, Newsweek, CNN, etc etc. They insist man is dramatically changing the climate, and nothing else. That is their position. An intensionally fasle position that mosts studying do not agree with.
 

Joel W.

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Nick M said:
Richard S. Lindzen, an atmospheric science professor at MIT

See post 118. This guy will not even bet on his own info.. :wavey:

Sallie Baliunas, an astronomer at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
In 2003, Baliunas and Soon published a paper which reviewed a number of previous scientific papers and came to the conclusion that the climate hasn't changed in the last 2000 years. However, 13 of the authors of the papers Baliunas and Soon cited refuted her interpretation of their work, and several editors of "Climate Research", the journal which published the paper, resigned in protest at a flawed peer review process which allowed the publication. The observations used by Baliunas and Soon in respect of MWP and LIA are often not temperature proxies but indications of wet or dry; Mann et al. argue that their failure to ensure that the proxies reflect temperature renders the assessment suspect [8]. More recently, Osborn and Briffa repeated the Baliunas and Soon study but restricted themselves to records that were validated as temperature proxies, and came to a different result [9].
Baliunas' extra-academic positions at several think tanks funded by energy industry organizations such as the American Petroleum Institute are often cited by her opponents as a source of bias on her part. Baliunas is a member of at least nine organizations which receive financial support from the petroleum industry [10]. :wavey: Next...

Willie Soon an astronomer at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics

In 2003 they published a controversial literature review paper, partly funded by the American Petroleum Institute [1] in the journal Climate Research. The incoming editor Hans von Storch believed that the review process had "utterly failed"; when the publisher refused to permit an editorial on this, he resigned [2]; subsequently four other editors also resigned. The paper also attracted highly critical published responses [3]. :wavey: next...

Nicola Scafetta, an associate research scientist working at Duke's physics department

This study does not discount that human-linked greenhouse gases contribute to global warming, they stressed. "Those gases would still give a contribution, but not so strong as was thought," Scafetta said.

Hmmm Not really disputing it. :wavey:

Bruce West, a Duke adjunct physics professor
He helped publish the above paper for Nicola...:wavey:

John Carlisle, Director of The National Center for Public Policy Research's Environmental Policy Task Force

Not sure if he is a scientist. From what I have read so far he seems to set policy on food lables? :wavey:


H.E. Coffey, E.H. Erwin and C.D. Hanchett Solar-Terrestrial Physics Division
NOAA NESDIS National Geophysical Data Center
325 Broadway, Boulder, Colorado 80305

Authors of various articles I linked to.

I will need full names to be able to search them properly but I bet they say the sun controls our weather? No big suprise here.

A+ for efforts. I thank you much.



No, that is not the position presented in National Geographic, US News and World Report, Time, Newsweek, CNN, etc etc. They insist man is dramatically changing the climate, and nothing else. That is their position. An intensionally fasle position that mosts studying do not agree with.

That is just silly. Of course man is not the only thing effecting the temps. Like you said the Sun does play a major role in our weather and I still do not disagree with you on this.
 

Nick M

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As already stated, if you work for "big oil" that does not change the information.

And Joel, your not a liberal. In fact, you are already automatically disqualified.
 

Joel W.

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If you can not see a conflict of interest when a company who sells oil, pays for a study that says oil is not the cause of GW, then you need better eyes!!

And thank you again Nick.
 

Joel W.

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I for one, am shocked that every single one of the so called "experts" that say GW is a hoax is well funded by Exxon Corperation (the largest oil company in the world). Not one mainstream scientist agrees with their experts. Wake up people!

Look at the link below and see if you recognize any names Nick, See for your self how they are all connected. Don't just take my word for it, verify it for yourself on your own from other sources. I have.

edit: here is the website:
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/index.php?mapid=488
 

p5150

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The United States consumes an average of 5 times more oil per person than the rest of the worlds population.
 

Joel W.

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I don't blame the DMV for our bad habits, It is how we all were raised that really effects how we live, We (your parents) did not know any better at the time. Fuel was cheap and easy to get so we all just got used to the idea that it is "normal" to be energy hungry. My self included.

It's up to each of us to make a difference now by educating your self to see through their bull shit, trying to conserve fuel, turning off the lights when we are not home, switching to low watt light bulbs, not buying the new V8 SUV's, start demanding cleaner hybrids and you will get them. Most of all, by voting for the people that will make the correct changes in policy and not fill their own pockets with cash at our kids expense.

Start by doing some research into our president and his advisers and see who his school "buddies" really are. You just might be amazed to see how deep this crap really goes.

Things will never change unless you people change and start to speak up and complain to your elected officials. If they do not listen, then speak louder. If they still don't listen, then do not vote for them and then and only then, take action if they still do not listen. It is only going to change if you force them to make the change.

[/rant]
 

p5150

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JustAnotherVictim said:
Because they give a license to any retard who walks into the dmv. :nono:
:confused:

No, its because the infrastructure of our country was built on the guise of an inexpensive oil supply. People continue to purchase vehicles that get crappy mileage because manufacturers do not make efficient vehicles.

Why do people purchase diesel engines for their big trucks? Because they are more efficient. Gasoline engines of similar displacement and torque get horrible gas mileage. Why dont US manufacturers make light duty vehicles with smaller diesel engines?

You can not purchase a light duty truck that gets good mileage. (over 30mpg)

The mileage standard should be raised SIGNIFICANTLY or the tax on automobile fuel should be increased. Period.
 

JustAnotherVictim

Supramania Contributor
Honestly voting has become somewhat bullshit in itself, considering how many roundabout ways they do things these days. You vote for something and someone decides to open it up again and circumvent what was already voted on.

I blame the DMV for letting a lot of people who shouldn't have licenses get them, admittedly still not entirely their fault.

My parents were already into conserving energy before all this global warming debate topics started. I still believe the whole thing is blown way out of proportion to scare people, granted there are possibly some valid points.
The short time frame that is used to try to support their facts isn't completely fail proof, considering how long the earth has been around and how long they haven't been collecting data on this.

Suv's suck btw, car corporations have been working with the government to keep the costs lower so they can sell more gas and not go broke from manufacturing all those vehicles with their supposed "safety".
 

SupraDerk

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Sep 17, 2005
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I don't vote for Democrats or Republicans...I hate both parties equally...well maybe not equally...I really hate Democrats, haha, but a third party candidate will never win...well, at least not for quite awhile because people will NOT let go of our two ruling parties...