Global Warming is over. (Really, it is. No joke.)

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Well, I'm too busy putting my hydrocarbon burner together to keep argueing this thread anymore. (It does appear to have developed a life of it's own however.)

Quote from NASA.
Unlike the surface-based temperatures, global temperature measurements of the Earth's lower atmosphere obtained from satellites reveal no definitive warming trend over the past two decades. The slight trend that is in the data actually appears to be downward. The largest fluctuations in the satellite temperature data are not from any man-made activity, but from natural phenomena such as large volcanic eruptions from Mt. Pinatubo, and from El Niño. So the programs which model global warming in a computer say the temperature of the Earth's lower atmosphere should be going up markedly, but actual measurements of the temperature of the lower atmosphere reveal no such pronounced activity.

Here is the link.
http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/essd06oct97_1.htm

It is funny how NASA in 2006 says that 2005 is warmest on reccord, except for possibly 1998 or whatever, and uses surface temp data (Which is skewed by the urban heat island effect, yet they don't admit to that in their writeup.)

Here is a quote from Joel's prior link. (This part is before the conclusion of a obvious LEE working at NASA. Interesting...)

The GISS team measured temperatures using records from land-based weather stations, and ship and satellite measurements of sea-surface temperature. This image shows temperature anomalies relative to the 1951-1980 mean. Areas of white indicate no deviation from the mean. Colors ranging from yellow to red indicate warmer-than-average anomalies, and colors ranging from green to purple indicate cooler-than-average anomalies. Most of the map shows warm colors, and temperatures are particularly warm in the Arctic and in south-central Africa. The high-resolution image shows both the temperature map and a line graph of global temperatures from 1880 to 2005.

All measurements have a range of uncertainty, including estimates of global temperature. The “real” average global temperature may be a little above or below the reported value. The range of uncertainty for 2005 temperatures overlaps with that of 1998, which means the two years are vying closely for the position of “warmest year on record.” Other research groups observing climate change place 1998 at the top of the temperature record, and the GISS team describes 2005 as “practically in a dead heat with 1998.”

OOPS! Wait, they forgot to add in the data of the atmosphere.. (They have this data, why did they not compute it with the land, sea and other sources of data? One has to ask this question since clearly if the "greenhouse" gasses were causing the warming trend, especially C02, it would surely show up as a increase in atmosphere temps right? WRONG!. The fact that they ignored the flat to down trending actual temp of the atmosphere we live in shows they are trying to grasp at anything to find a way to blame weather change on man made causes.)

This was true in the 70's when everyone was sure that another ice age was upon us. (Time magazine's opinion, not mine.) And now it's true today when normally very intellegent people can't realize that our solar system will do as it pleases, and we are just along for the ride. The Sun controls the weather. The natural events like volcanos, earth quakes and other stuff we have no control over effect our climate in ways that no human activity comes close to.
 

Supracentral

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
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My cat will gut you:

Picture009_12Jun05.jpg

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Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Read my last post. :) It's been updated with some source material you should like. (I even used your own 2006 data post.. problem is they left out the air temp data and are looking at surface temps, not the atmosphere where global warming would show up... )

The debate goes on.. LOL
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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Adjuster said:
Well, I'm too busy putting my hydrocarbon burner together to keep argueing this thread anymore.

LOL I just saw your edit..:icon_razz

Don't you look at the dates on the stuff you read and post? Your link is 9 years out of date...That guy no longer works at NASA October 2, 1997
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Christy
Dr. John Christy (the guy who Adjuster is quoting) is a climate scientist whose chief interests are Global Climate Change, Satellite Sensing of Global Climate, and Paleoclimate. He is best known, jointly with Dr. Roy Spencer, for his version of the satellite temperature record. He is a professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville (UAH). He was a key contributor to several IPCC reports, participating with lead authors in the drafting sessions, and in the detailed review of the scientific text. He was appointed Alabama's State Climatologist in 2000.

Christy is generally considered a contrarian on some global warming and related issues, although he helped draft and signed the American Geophysical Union statement on climate change [1].


More recently, in an interview with National Public Radio about the new AGU statement, he said:

"It is scientifically inconceivable that after changing forests into cities, turning millions of acres into farmland, putting massive quantities of soot and dust into the atmosphere and sending quantities of greenhouse gases into the air, that the natural course of climate change hasn't been increased in the past century." [2]
Christy has also said that while he supports the AGU declaration, and is convinced that human activities are a cause of the global warming that has been measured, he is "still a strong critic of scientists who make catastrophic predictions of huge increases in global temperatures and tremendous rises in sea levels."

In May 2003 he was quoted as saying: "Will increases in CO2 affect the climate significantly? Are significant changes occurring now? Climate models suggest the answer is yes, real data suggests otherwise." [3]. Note that subsequent to this the "real data" has had to be revised, when Wentz et al. discovered errors in Christy's dataset: see satellite temperature record for details.


In December 2005, Christy was still arguing against the possibility that the increase in global temperature is man-made because his data showed the northern hemisphere was warming much faster than the southern hemisphere, even though carbon dioxide is spread evenly. "The most likely suspect for that is a natural climate change or cycle that we didn't expect or just don't understand."

He could be right (maybe we need to paint all the roads white to reflect heat?)... It does not appear that way to others who are trained and looking... He is part of the minority.

N00b said:
sideways you mean like this?

Yes, but without the tape and in an aggresive manor...
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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Adjuster said:
(I even used your own 2006 data post.. problem is they left out the air temp data and are looking at surface temps, not the atmosphere where global warming would show up... )

The debate goes on.. LOL

The GISS team measured temperatures using records from land-based weather stations, and ship and satellite measurements of sea-surface temperature.

They are not ignoring air temps, they were measuring surface temperatures...

By precisely measuring the radiant energy emitted from Earth's surface, satellites can determine temperature at the surface-atmosphere boundary. Surface temperature influences the rate at which water evaporates, as well as wind and precipitation patterns and the formation of clouds. (Data from TIROS Operational Vertical Sounder [TOVS]) June 08 2006
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
I agree that surface temps are important, but they did not use the avialable atmosphere temp data. (And they have current data, I just can't find a link for some reason.)

The average atmosphere temps, especially at the altitudes you would expect to see warming up due to increases of C02 don't refect any such thing. (I know there are doubters on both sides, but the fact is the satellites are very precise with this data, and any changes would show up very quickly.)

Just think, a few hundred years ago, those "scientists" who were saying that the Earth is round would have been considered "contrarian" to the scientific community at large..

Let's look at a few blunders in recient history.

CFC's? (Ozone holes were going to kill us all.) Did not happen, and they have realized that changes in the Ozone appears to be natural, and not very much affected by man at all.) It's dropped off the radar of 99.9% of our population.

Next Ice age? (IE: We are all going to freeze, crops will die, and we will starve... Thanks for that prediction Time Magazine circa 1970's.) Appears they may have been wrong as the planet continues to warm up between ice ages.

All ice and glaciers are melting at increasing rates... Well, let's look at that. Yes there are glaciers that are melting, and others that are growing... the latest theory that makes sense is as the surface area of water that is not frozen increases, the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere increases, and the net result is more rain and snow. This GROWS ice packs/glaciers.

So much for the saline dooms dayers.... (Day after tomarrow.... movie/propaganda that is rife with errors and lies, but is entertaining to watch for sure. I especially love how they made the wolves eyes glow red.. how accurate that is..) Ice melting is having little or no effect on sea saline content as the increased water vapor balances it out, and new ice and snow being deposited in antartica is trapping that freshwater in glaciers that will not melt off for many thousands of years. (Just like the water that is in ice bergs breaking off glaciers around the world, it's a normal cycle of this planet, and humans have little or nothing to do with it.)

You note that the scientist who says air temp data in our atmosphere does not indicate rapid climate change has left NASA, and now is in charge of Alabama's climate research. You paint it like he's a nut case contraian, but NASA still has his research on their websites, and he's working on climate study right now for Alabama, so he must not be too stinky eh?

The last and final point I want to make is that ALL GCM's have proven to be WRONG. (There is not one accurate computer climate model using any combination of data that has accurately predicted what tempature or weather we will have the day after tomarrow... (OK, we can predict the weather about 3 days out, the best we have ever been able to do thus far, but even the 10 day predictions are completely subject to change, and there is not a scientist around who will even attempt a 30 day, let alone a few year prediction of accurate weather.) So, knowing this, how can you put much faith in anyone who says... "In 2010 we will see .04c climate change, the sea levels will rise 4mm and C02 is to blame due to man burned fossil fuels..."

ROTFLMAO at anyone who belives anything spouted by the LEE's. (They have agendas about curbing your personal freedom that goes way beyond MMGW, and they are just using this hype to scare you into "thinking green" so you can worship mother nature, become godless, and vote for them in the next election.) Now there's a prediction that I'll stand by. It's not working. The liberals want to ignore terrorism, stick our heads in the sand about real evils, and concentrate on vapor and smoke (litteraly) while the rest of the world builds up for the next global war that will make WWII look like a peace convention.
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
1,561
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Washington
Adjuster said:
I agree that surface temps are important, but they did not use the avialable atmosphere temp data. (And they have current data, I just can't find a link for some reason.)

I will look for it also..

The average atmosphere temps, especially at the altitudes you would expect to see warming up due to increases of C02 don't refect any such thing. (I know there are doubters on both sides, but the fact is the satellites are very precise with this data, and any changes would show up very quickly.)
Heat rises off the surface and as it gets higher in the air it cools, because the atmosphere is cooler at higher altitudes.

Just think, a few hundred years ago, those "scientists" who were saying that the Earth is round would have been considered "contrarian" to the scientific community at large..

The scientists from a few hundered years ago are all dead and gone, These new guys have a better understanding of science along with much better tools to work with.

CFC's? (Ozone holes were going to kill us all.) Did not happen, and they have realized that changes in the Ozone appears to be natural, and not very much affected by man at all.) It's dropped off the radar of 99.9% of our population.
We also quit producing the bad spray can CFC's and changed to a less harmful refrigerants like R410A. It seems to be helping some so they say,

Next Ice age? (IE: We are all going to freeze, crops will die, and we will starve... Thanks for that prediction Time Magazine circa 1970's.) Appears they may have been wrong as the planet continues to warm up between ice ages.
That is the a very real possability once we warm up to the point that the ocean conveyer belt gets deluted with fresh water from melting ice that it stops circulation of the heat, the ice age will follow. It has happened before, it will happen again.

All ice and glaciers are melting at increasing rates... Well, let's look at that. Yes there are glaciers that are melting, and others that are growing... the latest theory that makes sense is as the surface area of water that is not frozen increases, the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere increases, and the net result is more rain and snow. This GROWS ice packs/glaciers.
Like Nicks link said, yes, this may be the case for the highest glaciers on the planet. Again, because of the colder air up there in the atmosphere.. :).

So much for the saline dooms dayers.... (Day after tomarrow.... movie/propaganda that is rife with errors and lies, but is entertaining to watch for sure. I especially love how they made the wolves eyes glow red.. how accurate that is..) Ice melting is having little or no effect on sea saline content as the increased water vapor balances it out, and new ice and snow being deposited in antartica is trapping that freshwater in glaciers that will not melt off for many thousands of years. (Just like the water that is in ice bergs breaking off glaciers around the world, it's a normal cycle of this planet, and humans have little or nothing to do with it.)
That movie was a joke, but the problem is a real threat. The conveyer belt is already slowing down...

You note that the scientist who says air temp data in our atmosphere does not indicate rapid climate change has left NASA, and now is in charge of Alabama's climate research. You paint it like he's a nut case contraian, but NASA still has his research on their websites, and he's working on climate study right now for Alabama, so he must not be too stinky eh?
He is saying people, roads, and buildings may be partially causing GW, That is still man made global warming in my book. The painting the roads white was my idea.. I do not think he is a nut job as he admits it is a possability..


The last and final point I want to make is that ALL GCM's have proven to be WRONG. (There is not one accurate computer climate model using any combination of data that has accurately predicted what tempature or weather we will have the day after tomarrow.)..
This is true, it is very complicated.. The computer models say it should be changing slowly and in reality it is changing faster than they can predict for unknown reasons. Hence the CO2 data conclusion.
 

Facime

Leather work expert
Jun 1, 2006
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I told myself I was gonna stay out of this thread...but then you wrote this and the whole arguement became clear to me.

Adjuster said:
ROTFLMAO at anyone who belives anything spouted by the LEE's. (They have agendas about curbing your personal freedom that goes way beyond MMGW, and they are just using this hype to scare you into "thinking green" so you can worship mother nature, become godless, and vote for them in the next election.) Now there's a prediction that I'll stand by. It's not working. The liberals want to ignore terrorism, stick our heads in the sand about real evils, and concentrate on vapor and smoke (litteraly) while the rest of the world builds up for the next global war that will make WWII look like a peace convention.

As I see it your problem is that you are too concerned with your self appointed labels to actually have a clear, unbiased, and thus open minded opinion on this topic. To you anyone who gives the topic of GW any merit is a "LEE". Its obvious to me that you are incapable of supporting your arguement with anything other than rhetoric, propaganda and political bias, then you turn around and call any data to the contrary things like "vapor and smoke". Pot?...meet kettle!

It also appears you think anyone who has any concern for the well being of the planet that we all live on is "godless". So the Moral and right (or Left) thing to do is to show the world we wont stick our "heads in the sand"...but we will bury a few bodies there. The rest of the world? Well yeah, if by the rest of the world you mean places like North Korea and Iran, places where Imperialism failed, then yes...they are gearing up to do some damage. Where do you really think Iraq will be 20-30 years from now? A westernized sand box like UAE or Kuwait? I doubt it...The middle east doesnt need another factory outlet mall.

What we really need in this country is not one or the other. People like you only see in black and white, left and right, right and wrong. Well its not working. Our political system is so messed up its not even funny. What we really need is some true bipartisan politics and to get something done for this country that builds us up and brings us together. Its sad that only happens for a year or two after a tragic event like 9/11 takes place...but thats another topic.
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
The scientists who are dead from 100 years ago were very much alive when the guys from 100 years before were dead.. If you get my point, in another 100 years, we will all be dead, and they will be laughing at MMGW in my opinion like we laugh about the world being flat.

CFC's are heavy. They don't go "Up" in the atmosphere, they go down. So, the idea that Freon or hairspray propellant was causing the Ozone problem is and was wrong, and our changes over to R134a Freon v/s the more effective R12 in automobiles only has done nothing but sell more Freon for DuPont. (It takes more of the new, less effective freon than the R12.) Your home and place of work all use R22 in the AC units.

BTW, the rest of the world still uses R12. And that "rest" of the world is expanding at a rate the USA can't touch consumer wise. (Just China alone will surpass us as consumers in less than 20 years, and pollution and other problems there in China will cause global problems far beyond warming earth temps or ozone holes...)

If you don't like my view of things, that's fine, but I've traveled the world, lived in Iran and Saudi Arabia, and my experiance with the world has given me a perspective most here in the USA don't have. I completely laugh at people who say negotiation will solve the worlds problems, who think that being peacefull to our enimies will be the way to resolve issues. These people are mostly LEE's, and they make me sick with attitudes that hate the military, conservative ideals and personal freedom. (Yes, that's right, the liberals are anti freedom. If you can't see that, well your doomed to failue for sure.)

This is why I started this thread. It was a very entertaining book filled with good reasearch and typical bias and thinking of many here in this country, and some other places in the world.

If you read the book, enjoy it. The charaters are funny, the story is easy to read, and you might just be tempted to look at the "data" and "studies" supported by the LEE establishment with a jaundiced eye from now on.

If so, my work here is done.

:)