Global Warming is over. (Really, it is. No joke.)
- Thread starter Adjuster
- Start date
Economics drive what you drive, if you'll excuse the pun.
When I lived in Iran, they barely were paving the roads then, and people were buying cars and trucks and mopeds as fast as possible. I thought Iran when the Shaw rulled there still was a great place, and it was entering the 20th century with education for everyone, clean water to drink, security and prosperity...
Then when the Shites started to riot, everyone paid for it with loss of freedom, fear of death, and in the end, now they have a country with limited education for women, power for the religious leaders and poverty for the rest of the country.
Later during two trips to Saudi while my parents lived there for almost 9 years, I saw more religious leaders and Islam up close and personal. It sucks to have no freedom, and to be told what your going to do, worship and how to live under the law of some cleric's interpetation of the Koran.
What does this have to do with GW Theory? The same fanatical dribble that runs the religion in these countries is so similar to the liberal elite environmentalists here in the USA and the rest of the world.
They want to you feel bad about what your doing, so you'll do it their way. So your not commiting sin. (Or in this case, using up our precious resources in such a flagrant manner...) Oh please, cut the shit man! It's just oil, and there is SO MUCH OF IT you can't even imagine how much is left on this planet alone.
In my opinion, the Mutawa's call to prayer 5 times a day is akin to the Liberal Elite Environmentalists call to conserve energy, avoid CO2 devastation and live a life responsible to Gaia and Mother Earth...
I've lived in Europe, and they would love to drive our larger vehicles, but the taxes on fuel push diesel and other energy sources onto them. They use those fuels not because they are more effective, but they use them because they are cheaper due to taxes. (Government controll in their lives you know, for their own good of course... ) Sounds pretty comunistic to me.
I almost married a lady from Holland. We dated for about 3 years, and I was over there quite a bit. They wanted me to move there and become a Dutch citizen. (They love to collect taxes you know, so anyone who's willing to work, pretty much can get citizenship from the Dutch if your willing to pay their taxes..) I decided that paying 1/2 my wages in taxes, and then paying huge amounts of money to just own a car, register a car and then pay for the fuel to run it was crazy. The cost of public transportation was not cheap either. The fuel price was about the same as the rail ticket from Amsterdam to the Hauge, but you did not have to pay the vehicle taxes and fees if you did not own a car... Dang socialists at work again.
I met some very interesting people my own age over there. (I was 23 at the time.) They were citizens by birth, but had no intrest in working because they made more money on the dole than they would working. They also had subsidized Pot to smoke, and beer to drink. (Hell, even the whores are government controlled there.)
What does this have to do with your comment about being wasteful? My point is they are not as wastefull due to government controls on the money they have to spend, and what to spend it on. Not because they would not like to be more wasteful, they can't afford to be more wasteful. I'm sorry in advance if you find this distasteful, but it's the truth, and you and I both know it.
(And I get to be a poet...)
If the price of gas was higher, we would drive more fuel effective vehicles, or choose not to drive at all. This is a basic tenant of Al Gore's plan for us all. (Read his book.) Raise fuel prices with taxes, and force us to save resources... and the planet... La de fricken da...
My point throughout this whole thread has been that the theory you and I and everyone else was taught about GW is based on bad science, hype and out and out lies to make us conform to someone's idea of what we should be. (The Liberal Elite Environmentaists.)
The reality is C02 is not a factor, man is not a factor, and the planet is not going to end 12 years from now as Joel suggests, but it will continue on, pretty much oblivious of what you and I do here, burning hydrocarbons or not, and it will either get warmer or cooler depending on the angle and distance to the Sun, and weather patterns will peak and ebb based on whatever the Earth is going to do anyway. We have little or nothing to do with these decisions. Conservation will not change anything but how you feel about yourself, and I'm pretty happy to drive my Supra thank you very much.
If you are worried about consumption, sell your gas swilling car and buy a bicycle, or walk. There is always public transportation to consider as well. Just don't expect me to do the same, especially in light of knowing the theory being used to justify the "sacrifice" of my freedom to burn hydrocarbons is patently bogus.
When I lived in Iran, they barely were paving the roads then, and people were buying cars and trucks and mopeds as fast as possible. I thought Iran when the Shaw rulled there still was a great place, and it was entering the 20th century with education for everyone, clean water to drink, security and prosperity...
Then when the Shites started to riot, everyone paid for it with loss of freedom, fear of death, and in the end, now they have a country with limited education for women, power for the religious leaders and poverty for the rest of the country.
Later during two trips to Saudi while my parents lived there for almost 9 years, I saw more religious leaders and Islam up close and personal. It sucks to have no freedom, and to be told what your going to do, worship and how to live under the law of some cleric's interpetation of the Koran.
What does this have to do with GW Theory? The same fanatical dribble that runs the religion in these countries is so similar to the liberal elite environmentalists here in the USA and the rest of the world.
They want to you feel bad about what your doing, so you'll do it their way. So your not commiting sin. (Or in this case, using up our precious resources in such a flagrant manner...) Oh please, cut the shit man! It's just oil, and there is SO MUCH OF IT you can't even imagine how much is left on this planet alone.
In my opinion, the Mutawa's call to prayer 5 times a day is akin to the Liberal Elite Environmentalists call to conserve energy, avoid CO2 devastation and live a life responsible to Gaia and Mother Earth...
I've lived in Europe, and they would love to drive our larger vehicles, but the taxes on fuel push diesel and other energy sources onto them. They use those fuels not because they are more effective, but they use them because they are cheaper due to taxes. (Government controll in their lives you know, for their own good of course... ) Sounds pretty comunistic to me.
I almost married a lady from Holland. We dated for about 3 years, and I was over there quite a bit. They wanted me to move there and become a Dutch citizen. (They love to collect taxes you know, so anyone who's willing to work, pretty much can get citizenship from the Dutch if your willing to pay their taxes..) I decided that paying 1/2 my wages in taxes, and then paying huge amounts of money to just own a car, register a car and then pay for the fuel to run it was crazy. The cost of public transportation was not cheap either. The fuel price was about the same as the rail ticket from Amsterdam to the Hauge, but you did not have to pay the vehicle taxes and fees if you did not own a car... Dang socialists at work again.
I met some very interesting people my own age over there. (I was 23 at the time.) They were citizens by birth, but had no intrest in working because they made more money on the dole than they would working. They also had subsidized Pot to smoke, and beer to drink. (Hell, even the whores are government controlled there.)
What does this have to do with your comment about being wasteful? My point is they are not as wastefull due to government controls on the money they have to spend, and what to spend it on. Not because they would not like to be more wasteful, they can't afford to be more wasteful. I'm sorry in advance if you find this distasteful, but it's the truth, and you and I both know it.
(And I get to be a poet...)If the price of gas was higher, we would drive more fuel effective vehicles, or choose not to drive at all. This is a basic tenant of Al Gore's plan for us all. (Read his book.) Raise fuel prices with taxes, and force us to save resources... and the planet... La de fricken da...
My point throughout this whole thread has been that the theory you and I and everyone else was taught about GW is based on bad science, hype and out and out lies to make us conform to someone's idea of what we should be. (The Liberal Elite Environmentaists.)
The reality is C02 is not a factor, man is not a factor, and the planet is not going to end 12 years from now as Joel suggests, but it will continue on, pretty much oblivious of what you and I do here, burning hydrocarbons or not, and it will either get warmer or cooler depending on the angle and distance to the Sun, and weather patterns will peak and ebb based on whatever the Earth is going to do anyway. We have little or nothing to do with these decisions. Conservation will not change anything but how you feel about yourself, and I'm pretty happy to drive my Supra thank you very much.
If you are worried about consumption, sell your gas swilling car and buy a bicycle, or walk. There is always public transportation to consider as well. Just don't expect me to do the same, especially in light of knowing the theory being used to justify the "sacrifice" of my freedom to burn hydrocarbons is patently bogus.
Supracentral said:
I completely agree and could not have said it better. Bravo!
The sad thing is that we have a far bigger threat from gun-banners and Islamic Jihadis than from global warming and yet this thread has survived for a year while we turn out backs on the real dangers we face.
As Simon and Garfunckle (sp?) said it- " All lies and jests, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."
Oh yeah, my 1968 Honda 750 gets 55 mpg so to stop global warming I suggest we all drive motorcycles and have a supra for backup! Preferably a turbo version because they pack the cylinders more efficiently.
gosh....stupid liberals! you know sience is bogus anyways.....right? just look to the past at how many times the periodadic table been changed over the year...sience IS NOT absolute and these liberals are treating it as such!
WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR is a movie. Thats why it was in italics. GM had absolutely no trouble selling the car. See the movie.
Why cant you plug in a hybrid when you get home? WTF?
I know it may be hard for some of you to believe, but sometimes things arent right or left.... they are simply just true or false.
Why cant you plug in a hybrid when you get home? WTF?
I know it may be hard for some of you to believe, but sometimes things arent right or left.... they are simply just true or false.
Now that is really funny.. Turn off Rush Limbaugh already. It is rotting your brain..
Some of you are truely clueless...Ignorance is BLISS!!!!
Enjoy yourselves!!!
5150, just buy the Prius, get the JDM mod so you can plug in your car at night, and sell your supra if your so worried about C02.
There is one thing you have to keep in mind if you are using a electric car. That power has to be generated somewhere, and if your using coal produced power, it's polluting more than your engine would. If it's hydro power, your killing fish to get your power. If it's nuclear, well, the environmentalist elite will not like you at all man...
Power has to come from somewhere, and you lose power every time you convert it to another form, so the idea of electric cars is nice and all, but where do you get the power from? The sun? Start buying solar panels, your going to need an entire roof of them to even get close to charging up your car. Wind? Ok, at 400,000.00 each, you can put a wind mill in your backyard, but be ready to pickup the dead birds chopped up by the blades... And hope that the wind blows all the time so you can charge up your car at night... (Oh, at night the solar power does not work so great, you know, when you need light... So buy some batteries, but try and find some not made from toxic acids and metals... Oh, they don't exist? Bummer for the environmentalists... those batteries are nasty waste when they are worn out, and they can release noxious gases and fumes too.... )
GM's electric car was totally subsidized by the company to be leased at the prices it was offered to the public at. (And if you check, you'll find that all the auto makers selling hybrids are selling them at a loss, and picking up the difference on other car sales... A practice that can't last forever. I think if people actually had to pay for the electric or hybrid cars, they would see the folly in the cost v/s benefit ratio, and buy a fuel sipping normal version. Or look at other options like turbo diesels, turbo direct injection gas and other forms of fuel economy enhancing ideas like the V4/V8 engines GM is now putting in all the Suburbans and other cars. And DC is using similar technology to get better gas mileage from the Hemi V8's etc.)
Joel, how do you think ignorance is bliss, and how can you agree with what Supracentral says when it in so many ways go against what you've posted here? (That the Liberal Elite Environmentalists skew the data in their favor the way your so ready to accuse "big oil" of doing on any scientific data?)
I've said I was through here a few times, but like a rubbernecker at the scene of the loss, I can't stop looking at the carnage....
There is one thing you have to keep in mind if you are using a electric car. That power has to be generated somewhere, and if your using coal produced power, it's polluting more than your engine would. If it's hydro power, your killing fish to get your power. If it's nuclear, well, the environmentalist elite will not like you at all man...
Power has to come from somewhere, and you lose power every time you convert it to another form, so the idea of electric cars is nice and all, but where do you get the power from? The sun? Start buying solar panels, your going to need an entire roof of them to even get close to charging up your car. Wind? Ok, at 400,000.00 each, you can put a wind mill in your backyard, but be ready to pickup the dead birds chopped up by the blades... And hope that the wind blows all the time so you can charge up your car at night... (Oh, at night the solar power does not work so great, you know, when you need light... So buy some batteries, but try and find some not made from toxic acids and metals... Oh, they don't exist? Bummer for the environmentalists... those batteries are nasty waste when they are worn out, and they can release noxious gases and fumes too.... )
GM's electric car was totally subsidized by the company to be leased at the prices it was offered to the public at. (And if you check, you'll find that all the auto makers selling hybrids are selling them at a loss, and picking up the difference on other car sales... A practice that can't last forever. I think if people actually had to pay for the electric or hybrid cars, they would see the folly in the cost v/s benefit ratio, and buy a fuel sipping normal version. Or look at other options like turbo diesels, turbo direct injection gas and other forms of fuel economy enhancing ideas like the V4/V8 engines GM is now putting in all the Suburbans and other cars. And DC is using similar technology to get better gas mileage from the Hemi V8's etc.)
Joel, how do you think ignorance is bliss, and how can you agree with what Supracentral says when it in so many ways go against what you've posted here? (That the Liberal Elite Environmentalists skew the data in their favor the way your so ready to accuse "big oil" of doing on any scientific data?)
I've said I was through here a few times, but like a rubbernecker at the scene of the loss, I can't stop looking at the carnage....
p5150 said:
Fixed.
The entire point of the movie is to illustrate how the author feels about the vile companies (and consumers) who killed off his favorite economically impractical toy and how that economic system needs to be destroyed so he can have his toy back...
I have to ask p5150, are you a Marxist? I'm a Libertarian and an objectivist. I believe in logic, reason, capitalisim and free will. I'm trying to assemble what you believe from what I have gleaned from your posts, and I keep coming up with Marxist.
Adjuster said:Joel, how do you think ignorance is bliss, and how can you agree with what Supracentral says when it in so many ways go against what you've posted here? (That the Liberal Elite Environmentalists skew the data in their favor the way your so ready to accuse "big oil" of doing on any scientific data?)
I've said I was through here a few times, but like a rubbernecker at the scene of the loss, I can't stop looking at the carnage....
How is it bliss? It is just easier than the truth I guess... I disagree with him on many levels....That is my right, just as it is his right to disagree with me....
As soon as we realize there is really a problem here, we can try and find a solution, This does not mean taking away your liberties, but finding an alternitive to the cause of the problem..
Profits can still be made with cleaner power sources. (for you greedy ones) Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why does this concept scare you all so much?
Adjuster said:
Well I dont know what science you've been taught but the earth doesnt change distance to the sun...unless you look at it in terms of several billion years. Also the angle to the sun changes because the earths axis is on a slight tilt...it gives us seasons, not global climate changes over time. The only factual information you have here is that the earth will in fact do what its going to do, and shortly after mankind goes extinct it will return to equalibrium just fine.
In geological time, mankind has only been here for a blink of an eye...we still have a few years left, but make no mistake extinction is inevitable. Every species of life on this planet has either gone extinct or is going extinct. Its scientific fact, but you dont have to believe me if you dont want. As humans we think so highly of ourselves and our accomplishments as a species its hard to seperate that from the fact that scientifically we are just another animal.
Dont get me wrong, I love my fossil fuels just like the next guy. But I dont delude myself into thinking anything beyond the fact that Im selfish and am willing to pass on our legacy to the next generation and the next. I really couldnt care less. If we use up all the oil then we can move on to hydrogen...its really no big deal, and not my problem...its our childrens childrens problem...and I dont have kids, sooooooo....whatever
I know your going to claim the source is bogus, but Patrick Beddard from Car and Driver magazine wrote a very good article on electric cars. Now keep in mind this guy likes hybrids, and electric cars. Thinks they are neat, and likes to see if he can get the best fuel economy, or power use, treats it as a game if you will. (It would drive me nuts to go slower to just get better mileage, but hey, it's a free world, and as long as he stays in the slow lane, more power to him I suppose.)
Ok, back to the guts of the article.
It basicly talked about/showed that using electric power produced from hydrocarbons (Coal or natural gas.) is foolish since you lose energy in the process. He also notes that power grids are maxed out as it is, and in many areas, would not be able to handle the increase in power demands, so new power plants would have to be built, and more coal and natual gas burned to produce power to charge up the cars with. The hybrid cars are interesting to be sure, but even they lose power in the conversion from buring the hydrocarbons and converting them to electric power. There is much to be gained from braking, and not running the engine while sitting still, so the "mileage" around town is better than the mileage on the highway where the advantages of the hybrid fade to zero pretty quickly. At that point, most TDI vehicles get better mileage when going say 75mph for 4 hours straight. But in traffic, the hybrid is currently the way to go.
BTW, I love riding my KTM 620 RXC to work. It has plenty of power, can go on or off road very well, and averages about 40+mpg even with my heavy ass on the back, and my love of going fast Are motorcycles the answer? I don't think so. There is not a fuel shortage in the world that is not resolved with increasing production. Will the oil compainies and governments involved increase production? Not without a sea change in public opinion, and knowlege of what hydrocarbons are, and how plentiful the supplies are across the planet...
My point in this entire post has been this.
1) Global warming theory being man caused is bogus. (It is a natural tempature change on the planet we live on. Nothing more, nothing less.)
2) Hydrocarbons are not fossil fuels, and are not going to run out in 100, 200 or even 500,000 years. (They are part of the planet, and very common elements here and in our solar system.)
3) Oil companies are using the liberal elite media and envionmentalists to stoke up fear, and keep prices high on a very common commodity. (And doing this quite well indeed, look at the reccord profits of the past few years.)
4) Environmentalists are using the oil companies to push their agenda of removing personal freedom, and promote a more socialist society of sacrifice for the masses and power for a relative few. (Them of course. Where does Al Gore live? In a small apartment in the city using public transportation? Nope, he lives on a farm, out in the Urban Sprawl he hates so much, drives SUV's because he needs the larger vehicles to haul his fat ass around, and he wants you to conserve energy and live in the city... Wow what a role model.)
Ignorance is bliss? Head in the sand?
Anyone who follows anything Gore and his buddies have to offer must live by the following two statements, or else they would wise up and discover the bald faced lies being told to them by the hypocrites promoting the lies.
Hey, I would love to have a vehicle that used no fuel, never rusted, never wore out and was amazingly fast and safe to use, but that does not exist, and I don't see it hapening in our lifetimes. What we have right now is a very hightech internal combustion engine based society (At least vehicle wise.) and it's totally awesome to be alive and enjoying the power! I love my freedom, and will not let some zany environmentalist elite jackass take it away from me, That is just one reason I did not vote for Gore. (One of many reasons actually.)
Ok, back to the guts of the article.
It basicly talked about/showed that using electric power produced from hydrocarbons (Coal or natural gas.) is foolish since you lose energy in the process. He also notes that power grids are maxed out as it is, and in many areas, would not be able to handle the increase in power demands, so new power plants would have to be built, and more coal and natual gas burned to produce power to charge up the cars with. The hybrid cars are interesting to be sure, but even they lose power in the conversion from buring the hydrocarbons and converting them to electric power. There is much to be gained from braking, and not running the engine while sitting still, so the "mileage" around town is better than the mileage on the highway where the advantages of the hybrid fade to zero pretty quickly. At that point, most TDI vehicles get better mileage when going say 75mph for 4 hours straight. But in traffic, the hybrid is currently the way to go.
BTW, I love riding my KTM 620 RXC to work. It has plenty of power, can go on or off road very well, and averages about 40+mpg even with my heavy ass on the back, and my love of going fast
Are motorcycles the answer? I don't think so. There is not a fuel shortage in the world that is not resolved with increasing production. Will the oil compainies and governments involved increase production? Not without a sea change in public opinion, and knowlege of what hydrocarbons are, and how plentiful the supplies are across the planet... My point in this entire post has been this.
1) Global warming theory being man caused is bogus. (It is a natural tempature change on the planet we live on. Nothing more, nothing less.)
2) Hydrocarbons are not fossil fuels, and are not going to run out in 100, 200 or even 500,000 years. (They are part of the planet, and very common elements here and in our solar system.)
3) Oil companies are using the liberal elite media and envionmentalists to stoke up fear, and keep prices high on a very common commodity. (And doing this quite well indeed, look at the reccord profits of the past few years.)
4) Environmentalists are using the oil companies to push their agenda of removing personal freedom, and promote a more socialist society of sacrifice for the masses and power for a relative few. (Them of course. Where does Al Gore live? In a small apartment in the city using public transportation? Nope, he lives on a farm, out in the Urban Sprawl he hates so much, drives SUV's because he needs the larger vehicles to haul his fat ass around, and he wants you to conserve energy and live in the city... Wow what a role model.)
Ignorance is bliss? Head in the sand?
Anyone who follows anything Gore and his buddies have to offer must live by the following two statements, or else they would wise up and discover the bald faced lies being told to them by the hypocrites promoting the lies.
Hey, I would love to have a vehicle that used no fuel, never rusted, never wore out and was amazingly fast and safe to use, but that does not exist, and I don't see it hapening in our lifetimes. What we have right now is a very hightech internal combustion engine based society (At least vehicle wise.) and it's totally awesome to be alive and enjoying the power! I love my freedom, and will not let some zany environmentalist elite jackass take it away from me, That is just one reason I did not vote for Gore. (One of many reasons actually.)
Joel W. said:Well get used to it I suppose, It is finally happening...
And you take some sort of perverse self satisfaction out of the fact that in the near future that you will be wholly under the rule of the men who live by force? Where you don't have the means to protect yourself from them?
You realize your applauding the arrival of a world where not consent, but compulsion drives it's laws? You applaud the need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing to live? A world where your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you?
If this is the case I pity you, for you do not know what you are asking for...
So, BP has the silly ass advertisments talking about reduing C02... Promote the myth and raise the profits...
Shell is going the same route. what a supprise.
At least Exxon has the stones to go their own route, and it's leading them to reccord profits, so I suppose either route works fine in their view.
Going extinct? LOL, that was really good for a belly laugh man! No, I don't think we are going extinct based on our hydrocarbon use, and that's scare tactic #1 on the Liberal Elite Environmentalists game plan. Scare the uneducated masses into thinking that we are all going to end tomarrow unless we do what they want us to do today... Reduce, re-use and recycle... LOL Ban Dihydrogen monoxygen! (Like Penn & Teller did on Bullshit!)
Shell is going the same route. what a supprise.
At least Exxon has the stones to go their own route, and it's leading them to reccord profits, so I suppose either route works fine in their view.
Going extinct? LOL, that was really good for a belly laugh man! No, I don't think we are going extinct based on our hydrocarbon use, and that's scare tactic #1 on the Liberal Elite Environmentalists game plan. Scare the uneducated masses into thinking that we are all going to end tomarrow unless we do what they want us to do today... Reduce, re-use and recycle... LOL Ban Dihydrogen monoxygen! (Like Penn & Teller did on Bullshit!)
Adjuster said:
I NEVER...EVER...proposed that mankind is going extinct from burning oil or for that matter from anything that we are doing as a species...But ask a biologist. Its simple science. There are only two biological paths that a species can take. Evolution to a new species, or extinction...either way, the species doesnt exist anymore. (mind you Im refering to the geological time scale here...Im not saying mankind is doomed in the next 50, 1000, or even 10,000 years, there is no way to predict the time, only the inevitable outcome. In terms of the earth, mankind is like a housefly, the lifespan of our species has been very short so far.
Well, if you belive we evolved from apes, then your right.
But that is a whole other thead my friend!
Personally I think we are here to evolve into a higher life form, but that is just my opinion.
Oh, and conservation of hydrocarbons and fish worshipping is not required in my version of life and the beyond.
But that is a whole other thead my friend!
Personally I think we are here to evolve into a higher life form, but that is just my opinion.
Oh, and conservation of hydrocarbons and fish worshipping is not required in my version of life and the beyond.
"ignorance is bliss" huh joel? speaking of "ignorance is bliss", did you know that we are multiplying faster then people are dying...so "ignorance is bliss" to you good sir!
clueless said:
Yes I did. And* your point is what exactly clueless? Burn more fuel!!!
OK, fine...