Best oil for the 7mgte

[jdub]

A couple weeks...it's worthwhile doing Pete. Besides wear metals, it also will show fuel dilution and coolant in the oil
TBN will tell you when it needs to be changed too.

If you decide to do so, post the results in this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66757

 

[bovvinsuprahiro]

No same style maf, just avoid the oiled type filters.

oh ok so needs to be dry flow

 

[Kangae]

Sorry to get back semi-off topic, but 10000 miles? Is that ok to do if you have a good filtration system? If so I was never aware of this, in fact I have people telling me I should change my oil every 1000 miles because my car is so old (not my Supra, but my Lexus mind you, using GC and a napa gold as well if it matters).

 

[Rennat]

You change the filters in that time period at least once, i would do it twice and top off my oil to make sure its full.

and redline is like 9.xx a qt at my work. i get it for 6.37... your best bet is to buy a large quanity from summitracing if you dont have a local retailer.
I plan on running this batch of oil (redline 5-30) for a good 7-10k... i have two filters. so i'll just change them, make sure my oil is full. and be good.

 

[jdub]

Kangae - Yes it's ok with a PAO (GC) or ester (Red Line) synthetic...over an 8K OCI and I would definitely do analysis. The make-up oil you add when changing filters also replenishes the additive pack. In fact, there's a very good case that changing oil too often will increase engine wear.

 

[Kangae]

Kangae - Yes it's ok with a PAO (GC) or ester (Red Line) synthetic...over an 8K OCI and I would definitely do analysis. The make-up oil you add when changing filters also replenishes the additive pack. In fact, there's a very good case that changing oil too often will increase engine wear.

Hmm, thats very interesting, never knew that. I actually just bought some redline for the supra a week ago at the summit racing store near me, it was about 9.95 a quart but I've heard only great things so I figured it was worth it. Anyway, thanks for enlightening me once again. (All this oil stuff is very interesting to me)

 

[jdub]

Had to find the SAE technical paper :

Characterization of anti-wear films formed from fresh and aged engine oils
Dairene Uya, Steven J. Simko, a, , R.O. Carter IIIa, Ron K. Jensena and Arup. K. Gangopadhyaya

Ford Motor Company, MD 3182/SRL Building, P.O. Box 2053, Dearborn, MI 48121-2053, United States

Received 15 August 2006; revised 14 December 2006; accepted 18 December 2006. Available online 23 May 2007.

Abstract
Modern engine oils are formulated with zinc dialkyl-dithiophosphate (ZDDP) compounds to protect moving metal components from wear. As emissions regulations for automobiles become more stringent, lower concentrations of these additives are being considered in future oil formulations to extend the life of the catalyst after-treatment systems. However, any formulation changes need to be carefully tested to ensure there is no degradation in friction and wear performance.

While evaluating engine oils in a prior study, we found that the valve-train wear improved markedly as the oil aged. Changes in tribological performance were linked to differences in surface film chemistry on the valve tappet components.

In the current study, we examine the friction and wear of fresh and aged engine oils in controlled laboratory tests using a simulated valve-train apparatus, ball-on-flat, and cylinder-on-flat test rigs. Surface films that form during sliding were characterized at different length scales and depth distributions using reflection infrared spectroscopy, Raman spectroscopy, and high-vacuum surface analysis. The types of species present, such as phosphates, were different between fresh and aged oil. Carbonate and sulfide were present in films formed from fresh oil, but were usually absent from aged oil. Wear control may be related to a competition between carbonate and phosphate species. Oxidized-oil-derived entities are present on aged oil coupons and appear to improve friction performance. Thus, differences in film composition are used to explain performance differences of fresh and aged oils and the results from the different test rigs.

 

[Kangae]

Hmm...let me see if I understand this...Its saying that carbonate and sulfide are present in fresh oils, and absent in older oil, and that the oil performs better when they are absent? If I'm missing something please let me know.

 

[jdub]

Some dispersant's contain sulfide, alkenylsuccinimides is one of those used in synthetic oils. Colloidal calcium carbonate is used as detergent in motor oil formulation. Once these chemicals are reduced as a result of use, the interaction with phosphates help to form an oil film that resulted in lower friction.

Clear as mud? (that's the way I understand it)

 

[deabionni]

^^^ Jdub, I'm surprised you didn't show him this SAE paper that you posted about changing you oil too early.

(I hope I'm not stepping on your toes by posting that, and I'm thankful for you taking the time to help educate us about motor oils).

 

[jdub]

Deabionni - Thank you...I had a senior moment and misplaced it (who are you again?)

You are definitely not stepping on my toes! I knew there was an SAE paper around here somewhere making a very good case against changing your oil too often

 

[Kangae]

Some dispersant's contain sulfide, alkenylsuccinimides is one of those used in synthetic oils. Colloidal calcium carbonate is used as detergent in motor oil formulation. Once these chemicals are reduced as a result of use, the interaction with phosphates help to form an oil film that resulted in lower friction.

Clear as mud? (that's the way I understand it)

Yeah it sounds pretty clear, I was just trying to clarify just to make sure. Also I'd never seen that other thing you posted (link posted by deabionni) but it was a great read, and to think that I was worried that I had gone a few hundred miles over 3000 on GC, but I suppose I should just change the filter and get it analyzed at 4k? Well, I learned a lot tonight, thanks jdub.

 

[jetjock]

While not on the same level as SAE the decently done Paradise Garage study also showed it, as well as proving the effects of top off oil:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

 

[jdub]

You're welcome Kangae. It's no wonder though with just about every shop around drilling the 3K OCI in our heads...it's just not true...another plot to separate you from your hard earned $$$. Another one is "when your oil turns dark, it's time to change it"...another myth. Heck it's just getting broke-in according to the SAE

 

[Kangae]

You're welcome Kangae. It's no wonder though with just about every shop around drilling the 3K OCI in our heads...it's just not true...another plot to separate you from your hard earned $$$. Another one is "when your oil turns dark, it's time to change it"...another myth. Heck it's just getting broke-in according to the SAE

This makes me think now, I remember I posted something in the oil section about zMAX awhile back and you posted me a link to an article, that article basically explained what was in all those mystery oil additive bottles and why none of them really worked. If I remember correctly most of them contained one of 2 things, one being teflon (cant remember the chemical name for it) and the others just contained standard oil additive packs, but in greater quantities.

Now on to my question, if the additive pack wears out in an oil, would it actually be a good thing to add some of the additive pack based oil additives (using that word alot:aigo after awhile, just to replenish those additives? Or would just topping off your oil be enough to do just that?

 

[jdub]

Topping off your oil is generally enough, especially a turbo motor that will use oil as a matter of normal ops (you're adding oil every few weeks).

 

[Who]

My GM suburban has over 240k miles on it and it tells you when to change the oil. The oil change monitor does not analyze the oil but it figures in your mileage, temperature, and driving habits. In the middle of the summer when ambient temps are at there highest not once has the monitor had me change the oil under 4k miles. In the winter time it goes over 5k between oil changes. That tells me that the manufactures knows a dirty little secret. Oil changes every 3k miles are excessive. Your maintence cost are higher, the environment takes a hit and its harmful to your engine. Fail x3!
Hell I've even been using Walmart synthetic 5w-30 since day one with no issues. Funny how every time I mention Walmart synthetic to a mechanic they cringe. Works fine for me.

 

[jdub]

Using the OCI method you follow, WalMart SuperTech is just fine. In fact, it's a pretty decent oil.

 

[adampecush]

My GM suburban has over 240k miles on it and it tells you when to change the oil. The oil change monitor does not analyze the oil but it figures in your mileage, temperature, and driving habits. In the middle of the summer when ambient temps are at there highest not once has the monitor had me change the oil under 4k miles. In the winter time it goes over 5k between oil changes. That tells me that the manufactures knows a dirty little secret. Oil changes every 3k miles are excessive. Your maintence cost are higher, the environment takes a hit and its harmful to your engine. Fail x3!
Hell I've even been using Walmart synthetic 5w-30 since day one with no issues. Funny how every time I mention Walmart synthetic to a mechanic they cringe. Works fine for me.

If you look in the owners manuals of most new cars, you will see that the reccomended OCI is often upwards of 8000 km (5000 miles) for the SEVERE service condition. I find this funny as the local dealer, despite having the factory recommended service intervals literaly written on the wall, will "recommend" the oil be changed at 5000 km. You'd be surprised how difficult it is to make people realize this deception (my wife included).

On my dd, I'm currently at 13,000 km since my last change (Amsoil SSO + EA Filter) and going strong. No oil burning or loss of fuel mileage to speak of as well. I'm interested to see what the UOA looks like at 15k.

 

[7Mboost]

#1 - Mobil 1 is not a "full synthetic". It is a Grp III hydrocracked base stock...for the price you pay there are better alternatives. If you want to use a Grp III oil, Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 is a far better oil.

#2 - "German Castrol" is the nickname for Castrol European Formula 0W-30...it gets it's nickname from the "Made in Germany" found on the back label. GC (Grp IV), Red Line (Grp V) and Royal Purple (Grp IV) are the only true synthetic oils you can commonly find on the parts store shelves. AutoZone and Pep Boys carries GC...it is not discontinued.

#3 - You want an oil with the lowest 1st number (i.e. 0W or 5W) you can find for the best cold flow possible. The 7M and JZ series motors were designed for a 30W oil, so you want a 0W-30 or 5W-30 oil with a ops temp (100 deg C) viscosity in the 10-12 cst range.

#4 - I use German Castrol 0W-30...it's the best bang for the buck out there IMO. You Mobil 1 guys are paying top dollar for a middle of the road oil. And, it's not a true synthetic.

#5 - To the OP...do an engine flush at your own risk. Unless you have a sludge problem, it is a waste of $$$...so are any additives you find on the parts store shelves. This is the extent of the spoon feeding you will get and is the max I will "dumb it down"...posts without relatively intelligent questions in the Lube section (which I moderate) will simply be deleted. You will have to read and learn.

I'm going to single this comment out for special attention:


<LOL at Mobil 1 "the standard"> That is one of the most inaccurate statements one can make about oil...it illustrates complete ignorance of how oil works inside an internal combustion engine. In short, heavier weight oils in a motor resist flow and is why you get higher pressures when used. Lower flow is not good for hydrodynamic bearings (like the rods and mains)...it does not offer more protection, but just the opposite. It also increases friction in the motor due to the higher viscosity and will result in less HP and decreased gas mileage. If you want to know why, read the Motor Oil 101 - Dr AE Haas link in my sig.

Thank god for jdub, I thought I was gonna have to clean up all the false information people pull out of their ass!