Best oil for the 7mgte

[jdub]

You can make that argument, but IMO that's taking it a bit far. What will get you is TBN, the ability of the oil to neutralize the acidic byproducts of combustion. I know you can take a PAO or ester based synthetic to 15K miles or more...if you do that without doing oil analysis, you are taking a pretty big leap of faith. Using analysis, you simply change when the TBN drops below 2...that's assuming the analysis is showing everything else (wear metals, fuel dilution, coolant in oil, etc) is normal. Analysis at the 4K mile point when you change the filter would work well.

 

[dumbo]

I was just curious as to your thoughts.

 

[Poodles]

Someone in the oil forums was running redline and getting oil analysis. IIRC they said with the filter changes with the top off oil it appears it could go forever without a change...

As jdub said, without the analysis, you won't know. That's for HIS engine and no two engines are the same...

 

[Orion ZyGarian]

I wanted to add my 2 in Hg to this thread.

A while back, I did a bunch of research after hearing that maybe Mobil 1 wasnt the best, which is what I always believed. In fact, my Supra still has M1 15w-50 in it right now as its been sitting for a few years. I changed the oil when I got it to M1 (again, I thought it was the best). I'm pretty sure using the same oil messed with my second Supra, as it blew a turbo seal (I already knew the turbo was bad when I bought it, but not how bad) and eventually got rod knock (probably from burning off too much oil).

Anyways, thanks to jdub, his link, others here (like good ol' Dr. Jonez) and big thanks to Bob is the Oil Guy forums (www.bobistheoilguy.com), I have chosen my preferred setup: Royal Purple 10w30 with NAPA Gold filter. I'd do 4000 mi filter changes and 8000 oil changes if I could, but currently the speedo doesnt work (was never changed from the auto to manual conversion).

The reason I chose Royal Purple 10w30 is because it has a different formula than 5w-30 etc. and IIRC, better additives. In fact, 10w-30 is thinner and closer to the ideal lubrication number than 5w-30 (see

Having seen the NAPA Gold oil filter cut open, compared, and analyzed with the other choices, I also chose it, since its one of (if not) the best out there. Also, RP is the highest quality oil I can get at NAPA, saving me the trouble of going elsewhere for the two. Also, in this thread (post 4 and the last post of page one) were responses from RP themselves that were free of bs and such, which I was glad to read: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1354410&fpart=1

And finally, my good friend used to use Mobil 1 in his Eclipse for a while, then tried RP. His lifters went silent and his car ran much better. I know its just one instance and not much to go by, but its just another reason for me to use it. He's used it for a while and loves it.

Haha, and I just learned that Dr. Haas that wrote the info in the link of jdub's sig is from the same town as me! Sweet.

 

[jdub]

OZ - Nice post...a couple things though.

Here is RP's latest data sheet:
http://royalpurple.com/prod-pdfs/motor-oil-ps.pdf

Note that the ops temp viscosity is only a 0.2 cst difference between the 5W and 10W-30 oils...there is a 5.0 cst difference at the cold viscosity. Either oil will work, but the 5W-30 is the thinner oil (cold...where it really counts) and the one with a slight edge. The difference in hot viscosity is nothing...it does illustrate the point the a 5W-30 oil is sometimes actually a bit thicker than it's 10W-30 cousin.

As far as I know, RP's 30W multigrades contain pretty much the same additive package, except the VII's needed to meet a 5W vs 10W cold viscosity requirements. Both use RP's Synerlec additive. However, the XPR line is different...no claims to meet API specs and no data sheet is published for the XPR line. Can you point me to the info that says the additive package is different for a 10W vs 5W-30 street oils?

I always suspected RP oils contain a healthy dose of ZDDP and based on the BITOG posts, even more so for the XPR line. That's why RP oil is so popular with the domestic muscle car crowd running flat tappet cam motors. I also suspect RP's Synerlec additive is the primary ZDDP carrier, can't prove it though

 

[Orion ZyGarian]

OZ - Nice post...a couple things though.

Here is RP's latest data sheet:
http://royalpurple.com/prod-pdfs/motor-oil-ps.pdf

Note that the ops temp viscosity is only a 0.2 cst difference between the 5W and 10W-30 oils...there is a 5.0 cst difference at the cold viscosity. Either oil will work, but the 5W-30 is the thinner oil (cold...where it really counts) and the one with a slight edge. The difference in hot viscosity is nothing...it does illustrate the point the a 5W-30 oil is sometimes actually a bit thicker than it's 10W-30 cousin.

As far as I know, RP's 30W multigrades contain pretty much the same additive package, except the VII's needed to meet a 5W vs 10W cold viscosity requirements. Both use RP's Synerlec additive. However, the XPR line is different...no claims to meet API specs and no data sheet is published for the XPR line. Can you point me to the info that says the additive package is different for a 10W vs 5W-30 street oils?

I always suspected RP oils contain a healthy dose of ZDDP and based on the BITOG posts, even more so for the XPR line. That's why RP oil is so popular with the domestic muscle car crowd running flat tappet cam motors. I also suspect RP's Synerlec additive is the primary ZDDP carrier, can't prove it though

Thanks for that link. I'm thought there have been changes to the makeup of the oils since my initial research, but a quick freezing cold trip to the garage shows that I do have 6 quarts of API SL spec oil and not SJ spec like I thought it was. I believe the reason I thought this had a bit to do with the now outdated oil spec sheet that I had just posted.

Yet another part of my decision on 10w-30 is that Florida gets hot. Obviously not now, but in the summer (when I originally bought the oil), temps are usually 80-90 degrees F with loads of humidity. By the time I'm down the street and hit my first stop light, my coolant is already up to operating temps. Yes, the 5w would still be better for initial warmup, but I feel being slightly over the "ideal 10.0" is preferable in a warmer environment.

I'll look further to see if there really are any other differences in composition, but I doubt it.

Here's an oil analysis for RP's XPR 0w-10:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1258460

Apparently claim a very strong additive package at 7.6 where anything over 1 or so is desirable. However, this is far from enough to convince me to use it, solely for the fact that my cars are pretty much dedicated DD cars, and RP says these are for track cars and not street driving.

 

[jdub]

Just a FYI - I live in Phoenix (lived in S. FL and Tampa for a while too) and I know for a fact it's definitely hotter here. I use 0W-30 GC.

It appears (I could be wrong) you are misunderstanding what the 10W-30 numbers mean. All the 10W shows is how the oil will behave cold...it has nothing to do with viscosity at ops temp (like you are concerned about). That is shown by the 2nd number (the 30 in this case)...at ops temp (100 deg C) the oil has a viscosity in the 9.30-12.49 cst range to meet API specs for a 0W, 5W, or 10W-30 oil.

Basically what you want is an oil (brand you want to use) with the lowest 1st number possible, with a 2nd number that meets engine operating requirements. In this case, the RP 5W-30 has a 40 deg C viscosity of 65.3 cst...the 10W-30 has a 40 deg C viscosity of 70.3 cst. Note that both are 6-7 times the 100 deg C ops temp viscosity (11.0 cst for the 5W and 10.8 cst for the 10W)...that's my point...oil is significantly thicker cold, even at 40 deg C (104 deg F). Think what the oil is like at 0 or 10 deg C

Yes I'm splitting hairs, but your logic about running a 10W-30 due to summer temps is invalid considering both the 5W and 10W-30 versions of this oil are almost identical viscosity at a 100 deg C ops temp. If anything, the 5W-30 is a tad bit thicker at ops temp than the 10W-30...actually better suited to a warm climate.

I also feel the same way about RP XPR oils...personally, I would not use them in a street car.

 

[Orion ZyGarian]

Just a FYI - I live in Phoenix (lived in S. FL and Tampa for a while too) and I know for a fact it's definitely hotter here. I use 0W-30 GC.

It appears (I could be wrong) you are misunderstanding what the 10W-30 numbers mean. All the 10W shows is how the oil will behave cold...it has nothing to do with viscosity at ops temp (like you are concerned about). That is shown by the 2nd number (the 30 in this case)...at ops temp (100 deg C) the oil has a viscosity in the 9.30-12.49 cst range to meet API specs for a 0W, 5W, or 10W-30 oil.

Basically what you want is an oil (brand you want to use) with the lowest 1st number possible, with a 2nd number that meets engine operating requirements. In this case, the RP 5W-30 has a 40 deg C viscosity of 65.3 cst...the 10W-30 has a 40 deg C viscosity of 70.3 cst. Note that both are 6-7 times the 100 deg C ops temp viscosity (11.0 cst for the 5W and 10.8 cst for the 10W)...that's my point...oil is significantly thicker cold, even at 40 deg C (104 deg F). Think what the oil is like at 0 or 10 deg C

Yes I'm splitting hairs, but your logic about running a 10W-30 due to summer temps is invalid considering both the 5W and 10W-30 versions of this oil are almost identical viscosity at a 100 deg C ops temp. If anything, the 5W-30 is a tad bit thicker at ops temp than the 10W-30...actually better suited to a warm climate.

I also feel the same way about RP XPR oils...personally, I would not use them in a street car.

Yes, you are splitting hairs and are misunderstanding me :icon_razz. I know what the first number refers to etc., but my point with the 10w-30 being thicker was comparing it to the ideal viscosity number of 10 @ 100 deg C, not comparing to the 5w version.

Also, at the time of purchase, 0w and 5w-30 werent available in 6 quart quantities at NAPA. Yes MkIII newbies, 6. I stand by Dr. Jonez's ideal of running the extra quart in the sump for piece of mind and protection. You sure arent going to get any more oil in the engine between oil changes; you can lose it though.

 

[jdub]

Yeah... know. I kinda have to split hairs because of the volumes of misinfo about oil floating around and if I let something slide, it ends up coming back to bite me. The 5W-30 is the thicker oil at ops temp, but not enough of a difference to mean squat.

The 10W-30 is fine to use and choosing it due to availability is all good. "Ideal viscosity" is a moving target and will depend on the individual motor...anything in the 10-12 cst range at 100 deg C will work great.

 

[Tire Shredder]

I'm going to toss this oil into the fray since I will be using it on my 7MGE. It's been turning in some excellent UOAs on bob is the oi lguy forums. Raptor racing is an amsoil dealer near me and can get it very easily.

I'm a bit of an amsoil fanboy and their filters look excellent too.

amsoil SSO 0w-30
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/sso.aspx

 

[jdub]

Only thing I don't like about Amsoil is the price (expensive) and the way they market. Overall, Amsoil blends very a good oil...keep in mind the XL line is a Grp III base stock, which Amsoil (to their credit) freely tells you so. SSO is a PAO oil...it's excellent. So are the EaO filters...probably the best on the market for a single conventional full flow filter. You gonna pay top $$$ for both though

BTW - I tried SSO in my 7M several years ago...my valve train got pretty noisy. I switched to GC after that and it quieted down significantly. Your experience may be different.

 

[Tire Shredder]

Only thing I don't like about Amsoil is the price (expensive) and the way they market. Overall, Amsoil blends very a good oil...keep in mind the XL line is a Grp III base stock, which Amsoil (to their credit) freely tells you so. SSO is a PAO oil...it's excellent. So are the EaO filters...probably the best on the market for a single conventional full flow filter. You gonna pay top $$$ for both though

BTW - I tried SSO in my 7M several years ago...my valve train got pretty noisy. I switched to GC after that and it quieted down significantly. Your experience may be different.

agreed on all points Jdub. Amsoil certainly is expensive but it's something that means a lot to me. It makes me feel good knowing I have a quality product in there. I drive my car 10-12k (km) a year so a quality synthetic oil will last me the whole season. For this reason I don't mind spending a little bit higher premium to have good oil in there. Actually in my opinion when you get to the upper eschelon of quality synthetic oils, you begin to split hairs. They are all so good that any small differences in them are almost insignificant. Since I've don research on this I've kind of come full circle...I understand a quality conventional oil in certain conditions and changed when it's required can be an excellent option.

I don't care for the way that amsoil is marketed either, but I can say I have had nobody come to my house or pyramid scheme their way into their sales. My own research has led me to their products. That said I have read some of their dealer training material and watched a DVD on the history of the company. I understand why they went to the direct marketing approach to begin with. No parts store would carry an oil essentially adapted for automobiles in a guy's garage. Most stores had large contracts with castrol, quaker state and the like. The direct marketing approach was the only real way they could get the product out to customers. Once it gained credibility and a customer base, it became available in regular parts stores (at least here in canada. Carquest, canadian tire, napa and partsource all carry it now.

I do not want to go through the extra expense of a bypass style filtering system. I just don't run the OCI's or the ball bearing (or otherwise) turbo turbo that justifies it. The eao filters seem to fit the bill of being super nice but not unnecessarily so.

that's interesting you comment on valve train noise. Your comment my have just changed my final decision, however my engine was just rebuilt, including re-shimming of the valves so it may be different. I am still tempted to try.

 

[jdub]

My 1st syn fill after break-in was Mobil 1 5W-30...it was ok, but my brand new motor was making valve noise. (I also discovered what Mobil 1 really was). I switched to SSO and the noise actually got a bit worse, especially at start-up. GC was what finally got it to quiet down...like I said, YMMV

 

[Fuzz420]

Nice information in this thread

My question is how long should I wait after a complete rebuild to switch to full synthetic.Ive heard 1000 miles 3000 miles and 5000 miles. I was honestly going to switch mobile 1,but after this thread ill try something else.

 

[jdub]

Nice information in this thread

My question is how long should I wait after a complete rebuild to switch to full synthetic.Ive heard 1000 miles 3000 miles and 5000 miles. I was honestly going to switch mobile 1,but after this thread ill try something else.

The answer is in the Lube Section...this sticky to be exact:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48993

 

[Tire Shredder]

Nice information in this thread

My question is how long should I wait after a complete rebuild to switch to full synthetic.Ive heard 1000 miles 3000 miles and 5000 miles. I was honestly going to switch mobile 1,but after this thread ill try something else.

It's been said 80% is done in the first 20 miles. some say 2500 miles it should be done enough to switch to synthetic. 5000miles to be safe...it won't hurt anything to go that long with conventional oil. many oil changes during break-in is key. Change the oil frequently when it's new. I did the following:
-first 20 minutes
-100 miles
-500 miles
-1000 miles
-5000 miles

I've also heard of others putting synthetic oil in their engine right from the first startup without issues. However I would never recommend this. I've used conventional for 5k and my rings seated perfectly.

 

[jdub]

I did the following:
-first 20 minutes
-100 miles
-500 miles
-1000 miles
-5000 miles

A bit over kill, but like you said, it won't hurt either. Switching over to a syn oil at the 1,500 mile point is perfectly safe....i.e. sub 1,500 for 1,000 above and switch to a syn oil with a Wix filter.
If the motor is not broke in by the 1,500 mile point, it's not going to break in

 

[Fuzz420]

The answer is in the Lube Section...this sticky to be exact:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48993

lmao my bad, my question is in the title and everything:3d_frown:

It's been said 80% is done in the first 20 miles. some say 2500 miles it should be done enough to switch to synthetic. 5000miles to be safe...it won't hurt anything to go that long with conventional oil. many oil changes during break-in is key. Change the oil frequently when it's new. I did the following:
-first 20 minutes
-100 miles
-500 miles
-1000 miles
-5000 miles

I've also heard of others putting synthetic oil in their engine right from the first startup without issues. However I would never recommend this. I've used conventional for 5k and my rings seated perfectly.

thanks