Ok, real simple. I'll be re-doing all of my brake lines. Only thing I'm wondering is should I do equal length lines? That was my original plan, but I'm being told it doesn't matter.
ABS delete question on brake lines
- Thread starter Insidious Surmiser
- Start date
reading up on my physics... if I'm understanding pascal's law correctly... it shouldn't matter what length the lines are.
Incompressible non-flowing fluid in a control space will cause pressure at point A to be = to pressure at point B if area is unchanged.
length... no. line composition and condition.. yes.. I would never change a left brake line without changing the right one too... (even though the difference might be minimal or none at all.. I like doing both sides at once)
I still think that the only possible reason for ABS delete is weight savings, and even then, I figure that there are a lot of places that I'd be removing weight before I got there. Personally, I credit ABS with saving my car on at least 2 occasions where I would have been unable to control the car without it. Once it probably would have only been embarrassing. Once, it meant the difference between the shoulder of the road and a concrete wall.
Anyway, brake line length doesn't matter, unless it's long lengths of poor condition rubber hose that swell when you apply the brakes.
Anyway, brake line length doesn't matter, unless it's long lengths of poor condition rubber hose that swell when you apply the brakes.
TBH I've had a car with ABS, and one without... both mk3's... I HATE ABS... the one I had w/ out it (stolen 5 yrs ago, never recovered) braked PERFECTLY
To go even further I would wager that the ABS was so bad that it makes braking worse. Sure, there are extenuating circumstances... but I've daily driven all my supras, and never once was ABS handy... It was just a straight up nuisance.
I think what it comes down to is how much control/skill/experience you have. Personally I don't feel that I will ever need abs. I know how brakes work, and I know how to use them. *cross fingers, and hope to never be wrong on this
To go even further I would wager that the ABS was so bad that it makes braking worse. Sure, there are extenuating circumstances... but I've daily driven all my supras, and never once was ABS handy... It was just a straight up nuisance.
I think what it comes down to is how much control/skill/experience you have. Personally I don't feel that I will ever need abs. I know how brakes work, and I know how to use them. *cross fingers, and hope to never be wrong on this
ABS allows the vehicle to steer when you "lock up" the brakes. You clearly have not had that situation unfold while driving if you think they are the same. I agree, don't do it. It allows you to steer because the brakes don't lock up. The actuator is doing the same as pumping the pedal, only far faster than any person, including the phonies on Stan Lee's Superhuman show.
yeah... there is this thing called limit of adhesion... you can still steer while braking... in fact that's actually a little bit of a specialty of mine... each person has their own driving style. It sounds idiotic, but mine tends to be at the limit of traction. And I like to brake late as well. Something most people don't really care much for, and generally attribute to sliding off the road/wrecking. Not in my case. If I know where that limit is, and can feel it... ABS is literally getting in my way. Anyhow I'm an extremely defensive, and attentive driver. On top of that my reaction time is nowhere close to being slow. The way I look at it if I'm in a situation where ABS is supposed to save my ass, I'm perfectly capable of doing that without it. That's been my experience at least.
I'm assuming most people drive their cars once in a while. Well, I've driven all my supras at least 6 days out of the week, rain, snow, sleet, or sunshine. I get extremely well acquainted with my car, and I know exactly what I like/don't like. I HATE ABS.
BTW pumping the pedal is NOT what you want to be doing. There IS a correct way to modulate pressure WITHOUT pumping the pedal. That's barbaric at the very least. You just want to use the correct amount of pressure. That is all. The amount may vary depending on what it is you're doing, but I am correct in saying that.
I'm assuming most people drive their cars once in a while. Well, I've driven all my supras at least 6 days out of the week, rain, snow, sleet, or sunshine. I get extremely well acquainted with my car, and I know exactly what I like/don't like. I HATE ABS.
BTW pumping the pedal is NOT what you want to be doing. There IS a correct way to modulate pressure WITHOUT pumping the pedal. That's barbaric at the very least. You just want to use the correct amount of pressure. That is all. The amount may vary depending on what it is you're doing, but I am correct in saying that.
I know... you're just trying to save another mk3 (or driver) from biting the dust... but I'm extremely particular on this; I have a burning hatred for ABS 
Lol. Wow. If you can modulate brake pressure that well you are wasting your life not being a professional race driver. In unexpected emergency situations where you need to stop as fast as possible abs will win every, Single, Time.
No matter what you think you're skill level is I guarantee its not as effective as abs. As pi said, abs modulates each wheel INDIVIDUALLY. which you will never do no matter how good your skills are.
Save the ricer mods to the civic owners and keep your advanced, stability-saving braking system the way Toyota engineers spent millions upon millions perfecting.
As JJ said... crack me up, lol.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
No matter what you think you're skill level is I guarantee its not as effective as abs. As pi said, abs modulates each wheel INDIVIDUALLY. which you will never do no matter how good your skills are.
Save the ricer mods to the civic owners and keep your advanced, stability-saving braking system the way Toyota engineers spent millions upon millions perfecting.
As JJ said... crack me up, lol.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
I honestly can't think of a reason not to have ABS on the street. If you are regularly actuating ABS on the street, you are either driving like a retard, you need a lot more tire under the car, or both. As far as track driving is concerned, for a pure track car, sure, ditch the ABS if you think you can outbreak it. Your laptimes will reflect the truth. In my BMW on track, I rarely even actuate the ABS due to the amount of tire I have under the car - with that said, that system is far more advanced than the supra's.
suprarx7nut;1905555 said:
Pretty sure its well known you can stop faster by locking up the tires in snow, right? Obviously without as much control...
mk3sons;1905568 said:
On snow and gravel , newer systems use pulse rate reduction to improve performance while still maintaining control. It's been my experience though that locking the wheels is no panacea in such conditions anyway.
No amount of skill will allow you to brake differently with the left front wheel than the right front wheel. Ever. ABS can do it, and that's what made the difference between road shoulder and concrete wall. I stopped. The other guy's car yawed and put the back bumper into the wall. Proof enough for me.
I've also driven Mk3s without ABS, and I've never once thought that the braking was better. I am perfectly capable of threshhold braking, and consider myself to have at least good skills with braking. On dry pavement, it is extremely rare for me to engage the ABS at all, but unfortunately, the roads here spend a lot of time with sand and gravel on them, sometimes not evenly across the road. I also used to winter drive my '89.
I only wish that the Mk3 ABS were 4 channel, and not just 3 channel, but even then, it still does better than I can.
I've also driven Mk3s without ABS, and I've never once thought that the braking was better. I am perfectly capable of threshhold braking, and consider myself to have at least good skills with braking. On dry pavement, it is extremely rare for me to engage the ABS at all, but unfortunately, the roads here spend a lot of time with sand and gravel on them, sometimes not evenly across the road. I also used to winter drive my '89.
I only wish that the Mk3 ABS were 4 channel, and not just 3 channel, but even then, it still does better than I can.
I think that the problem is most people assume because the ABS is pulsing and they are sliding that they would be able to stop quicker if it wasn't pulsing. Its a natural reflex because what the brakes are doing isn't working.
I slid into an intersection with the ABS pulsing.. and my reaction was to hit the brakes harder... (no difference.. i still slid)
In the end.. I am fairly certain I have a better chance of stopping with ABS than without. Not quite sure why anyone would remove it.
I am forced to winter drive my 90 until I can sell it to get a truck. It gets washed a lot and driven about twice a week although I hate doing it. Love how fun it is on the roads though... For those who never grew up driving rear wheel drive in winter, they are missing out on one of the best things about snowfall... Lol
I slid into an intersection with the ABS pulsing.. and my reaction was to hit the brakes harder... (no difference.. i still slid)
In the end.. I am fairly certain I have a better chance of stopping with ABS than without. Not quite sure why anyone would remove it.
I am forced to winter drive my 90 until I can sell it to get a truck. It gets washed a lot and driven about twice a week although I hate doing it. Love how fun it is on the roads though... For those who never grew up driving rear wheel drive in winter, they are missing out on one of the best things about snowfall... Lol
Keep the abs. My trucks and sensor was bad and I was very slow to fix it. One day I was driving and a car pulled out when I had the right away the abs light was on so it wasn't working and let me tell u if I didn't swerve to the side and if I didn't know what I was doing or if I was in a lower car I would of ruined my car. The next day I went out and bought the abs sensor. I
But my truck (99 f350 diesel) doesn't stop we'll at all and without abs it was a very scary moment
But my truck (99 f350 diesel) doesn't stop we'll at all and without abs it was a very scary moment