I'll keep you in mind if I do indeed part with it. when I remove it I will of course be testing the car to see if it brakes appropriately. If it does not, the unit/associated parts will be re-installed.Backlash2032;1905831 said:
ABS delete question on brake lines
- Thread starter Insidious Surmiser
- Start date
People like ABS, sure. They also like cheap. Can cars without brake safely? Sure. In all of the same conditions? No. Car manufacturers don't really care if it's safer, they care if it helps them sell more cars. As a safety feature which ISN'T mandated by law, they don't include it everywhere. There was a time when seatbelts were optional equipment, after all.
I used to think that I didn't need anything like ABS. I'd even been known to say that it was "too bad" that the Supra I bought had it, back when I was only a little older than you are now. Time and experience have changed my mind on that point. 100,000 miles isn't really all that much. I have put a few times that mileage on my Supra alone, as well as on several other cars. By age 20, I'd put more than that on my third car's freshly built motor.
I can't help but wonder at some of the things that you've said, though. You have stated that you don't lock up the wheels, and modulate brakes to avoid it, and be able to steer. I find this curious, because if you do that, the ABS does NOTHING. You've also said that you press the brakes a little hard, so that you know where the limits are. Do you really need to actually skid to know that the tires went beyond their limits? Because the brake pedal pulsing at me lets me know EXACTLY where the limits are, if I need to know, and faster than feeling or hearing a skid will, particularly since some of the stickier tires that I've owned will squawk while still not locked up.
I believe that you are making a mistake by removing the ABS. I can drive my Supra for thousands of kilometers without ever activating it. By the way, since I don't drive the Supra as a daily driver, that means that those thousands of kilometers are not particularly tame driving, either.
Still, it's your mistake to make. I would like to talk you out of it, and hopefully at some point another person will read this thread and reconsider.
I used to think that I didn't need anything like ABS. I'd even been known to say that it was "too bad" that the Supra I bought had it, back when I was only a little older than you are now. Time and experience have changed my mind on that point. 100,000 miles isn't really all that much. I have put a few times that mileage on my Supra alone, as well as on several other cars. By age 20, I'd put more than that on my third car's freshly built motor.
I can't help but wonder at some of the things that you've said, though. You have stated that you don't lock up the wheels, and modulate brakes to avoid it, and be able to steer. I find this curious, because if you do that, the ABS does NOTHING. You've also said that you press the brakes a little hard, so that you know where the limits are. Do you really need to actually skid to know that the tires went beyond their limits? Because the brake pedal pulsing at me lets me know EXACTLY where the limits are, if I need to know, and faster than feeling or hearing a skid will, particularly since some of the stickier tires that I've owned will squawk while still not locked up.
I believe that you are making a mistake by removing the ABS. I can drive my Supra for thousands of kilometers without ever activating it. By the way, since I don't drive the Supra as a daily driver, that means that those thousands of kilometers are not particularly tame driving, either.
Still, it's your mistake to make. I would like to talk you out of it, and hopefully at some point another person will read this thread and reconsider.
Dan_Gyoba;1905842 said:
Yes, it seems a lot of people would like to talk me out of it, since this thread has gotten to be so ridiculously long. Considering I asked 1 simple question, and after reading pascals law answered it myself. Although there has been some invaluable information brought to light.
Now I think you may be a bit confused here, because when/if I am skidding that would be in a car without ABS... and the reason for which is specifically so I can know at what point under a given set of conditions the car will lose traction. But yes, I am capable of making precise maneuvers at the very limit of traction without the aid of ABS (meaning it's not there, never was). Also if I'm initiating loss of traction I am giving myself just enough leeway to do so.
I honestly didn't think it was possible to buy a car today without ABS (new car). I dont believe its mandated by law... but I just assume all cars have it.. never really considered it.
I would definitely talk to your insurance first though and possibly even the police... or a lawyer.
A little event that always stood out in my mind was a car that I was trying to straighten in a Chrysler dealership a couple decades ago. Apparently the dealership did the brakes on the car, but the spindle welded at about 70 mph sending the driver head on into a pole (funny how the pole shows up when the car fails) and killed the driver. The insurance company was trying very hard to pass the blame onto the dealership saying that their mechanic failed something. In the end it was a weak bearing coupled with a badly out of balance cheapy tire (you know.. those tires you pick up for 30 bucks??)
Having ABS or not having ABS is not an issue with me really... its the liability of removing it that I worry about. And your in the states... so I would worry about it double...
I would definitely talk to your insurance first though and possibly even the police... or a lawyer.
A little event that always stood out in my mind was a car that I was trying to straighten in a Chrysler dealership a couple decades ago. Apparently the dealership did the brakes on the car, but the spindle welded at about 70 mph sending the driver head on into a pole (funny how the pole shows up when the car fails) and killed the driver. The insurance company was trying very hard to pass the blame onto the dealership saying that their mechanic failed something. In the end it was a weak bearing coupled with a badly out of balance cheapy tire (you know.. those tires you pick up for 30 bucks??)
Having ABS or not having ABS is not an issue with me really... its the liability of removing it that I worry about. And your in the states... so I would worry about it double...
yeup... deffinitely havta think long and hard about that. But yes I have a fairly new car without ABS, and I've come incredibly close to wrecking it multiple times (people braking like CRAZY in front of you), but the brakes work fantastic without ABS on it. But yeah, I've also come into corners way too fast sliding right towards another car (rain), and the way I controlled the brakes/situation was just right (multiple times). Was able to make the turn just fine even though most anyone else would have panicked and hit the brakes too hard. (btw guys, I drive for a living, with no GPS) so a lot of times I'm looking for an address in the middle of nowhere on a 2 lane highway (1 lane southbound, 1 north for example) and I'll come flying up on the road I'm looking for and the sign will be in a tree or something stupid, so a lot of times I am trying to make a turn too fast to avoid being rear-ended.
I'll just comment that for 2012 every new US car for sale has ABS, stability control, and traction control, including the cheapest car sold, the Nissan Versa S.
this really shouldn't surprise you JJ... if it does, you don't know as much as you think you do.
what I'm getting at is when truths are formulated into words a lot of times you will start finding contradictions. in other words... words are cheap and are used as a guide... almost an archaic means of pointing
what I'm getting at is when truths are formulated into words a lot of times you will start finding contradictions. in other words... words are cheap and are used as a guide... almost an archaic means of pointing
Words are cheap? Does that include the words of engineers and brake systems designers? The words of industry professionals publishing technical white papers? Keep in mind these words come from people hundreds of times more experience with brake systems than ANY of us and spend their lives objectifying the things you "feel".
I still get a kick out of your self-proclaimed super-human ability to never panic, lol. And they say young people have a false sense of invincibility and skill.
Like I said before, having a dumb idea when you dont know all the facts is one thing, but to be presented with overwhelming evidence and still follow through on your poor idea is quite another. We're all trying to help out.
I still get a kick out of your self-proclaimed super-human ability to never panic, lol. And they say young people have a false sense of invincibility and skill.
Like I said before, having a dumb idea when you dont know all the facts is one thing, but to be presented with overwhelming evidence and still follow through on your poor idea is quite another. We're all trying to help out.
Grandavi;1905666 said:By the way, thanks for that "blast from the past" ABS video Nick. It pretty well says it all.
Despite producing some cars that are no more than a turd in the punchbowl, GM knows very well how to build cars and do it right.
Of the things that have made me raise an eyebrow in this thread, that's actually not one, as 89jdm7m has a self-proclaimed Asperger's condition, and this is one thing that does follow with the lack of an immediate emotional response.suprarx7nut;1905931 said:
That said, no matter how well you've kept control of the car, I'd still put money on the ability of the ABS system to do it better, even in the hands of a less experienced driver.
Ultimately, it's your car, but keep in mind that many race classes use ABS, and many have it banned because it's too effective and would be considered cheating!
I would wager most those pictured above thought they had exceptional car control skills as well.
OneJoeZee's car is a perfect example, he left some nice long skid marks before he hit the car that pulled out in front of him...
suprarx7nut;1905931 said:
I understand exactly what you're trying to do, and this is exactly the response I was expecting. Don't you guys understand there is no changing my mind? I started a thread with one simple question, and it's been derailed all to hell because of (well founded) statistically based OPINIONS. I understand the risks, and I appreciate all of the information that's been brought to light. On the other hand I don't need a single one of you guys to pass judgement on me.
BTW I trust my instincts way more than I trust any of you opinionated (insert plural noun). That's why I'm not dead. TBH guys, I thought I would be dead by the age of 22 or so. I'm still here though.
I don't doubt that for one second. On that note I do suffer from some pretty bad stress and anxiety issues... on more than one occasion I have experienced what I assume would be severe post traumatic stress, after some really hairy situations.Dan_Gyoba;1905981 said:
The stress was so bad it was causing my back/neck muscles to seize and knot up.... very painful.
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I didn't try to change your mind because I know better. All I'll say is good luck because even more so than most youngsters you've got bigger problems to deal with than an old car. Here's hoping life doesn't beat you up too badly, or worse, before you finally come to your senses.