7MGE ITBs
- Thread starter sarinas_dragons
- Start date
UPS says mine will be here tomorrow. I will make a manifold for my MKIII. I have a GTE to build and just got word on my Pauter rods. I'll test at least three sets of different ITBs in the next year.
I like the EXTRUDABODYs and you can see attention to detail. They are nice and short allowing compact design. And nitrous designed in. The high-flow ITBs look like house plumbing and yet if you're flowin' it they can control it. These big whatever throttlebodies are in another land twice as far away. I have so much work just to stay ahead on math.
I have been contacted and told buy members they will buy. I haven't entered into any negotiations but that is easy.
If I were you guys I would try to collect as many hard specifications about parts and performance on your own. If you want I will give you a 5 page list of specs I use.
Some are the same for our engines. But cams, timing fuel, and lots of other things personal preferences like your turbo's specs and what you have for rods and pistons.
I am a big proponent of titanium valves and I am doing design for product development of titanium valve springs, too. I am developing applications for electric power steering pumps, electric water pumps, and headers.
Get your specs together before the winter is over. For me it is like a treasure map. The specs are obscure and unrevealed by the factory. There is some crazy level calculus, too.
Please take the time, if only to glance at the back-up design work. You can see I reveal the specifications, I don't have a concern how anyone else designs or builds but I invest thousands of dollars to show why our engines react to design the way they do.
It also proves at this level I have to take your personal choices into consideration and just talk plainly about compatibility. I'm not selling. I'm designing. My designs are my way of getting a manufacturer to let me develope their part for us.
Like a new line of ecus, or nitrous control and ecu with addressable torque curves, and a gearset that changes torque thrust. Small turbos and spray with no delay but big numbers.
The ITBs are the key to this control.
The specs have to be told to you to prove to you claims of benefit. I don't think a manufacturer would believe anyone who just said they could do it. I wouldn't. But if there were a kick-ass welder that understood the specs and how to apply them you could be his customer.
I guess I collaborate with people who need my skills. Whether it is conceptualization like in a new camshaft spec for 14.5:1 N/A pistons or just laying out timing events against piston postion for base mapping or track day tuning changes.
But I have alot of parts to test and designs to draw and build so that I can test some more.
I like the EXTRUDABODYs and you can see attention to detail. They are nice and short allowing compact design. And nitrous designed in. The high-flow ITBs look like house plumbing and yet if you're flowin' it they can control it. These big whatever throttlebodies are in another land twice as far away. I have so much work just to stay ahead on math.
I have been contacted and told buy members they will buy. I haven't entered into any negotiations but that is easy.
If I were you guys I would try to collect as many hard specifications about parts and performance on your own. If you want I will give you a 5 page list of specs I use.
Some are the same for our engines. But cams, timing fuel, and lots of other things personal preferences like your turbo's specs and what you have for rods and pistons.
I am a big proponent of titanium valves and I am doing design for product development of titanium valve springs, too. I am developing applications for electric power steering pumps, electric water pumps, and headers.
Get your specs together before the winter is over. For me it is like a treasure map. The specs are obscure and unrevealed by the factory. There is some crazy level calculus, too.
Please take the time, if only to glance at the back-up design work. You can see I reveal the specifications, I don't have a concern how anyone else designs or builds but I invest thousands of dollars to show why our engines react to design the way they do.
It also proves at this level I have to take your personal choices into consideration and just talk plainly about compatibility. I'm not selling. I'm designing. My designs are my way of getting a manufacturer to let me develope their part for us.
Like a new line of ecus, or nitrous control and ecu with addressable torque curves, and a gearset that changes torque thrust. Small turbos and spray with no delay but big numbers.
The ITBs are the key to this control.
The specs have to be told to you to prove to you claims of benefit. I don't think a manufacturer would believe anyone who just said they could do it. I wouldn't. But if there were a kick-ass welder that understood the specs and how to apply them you could be his customer.
I guess I collaborate with people who need my skills. Whether it is conceptualization like in a new camshaft spec for 14.5:1 N/A pistons or just laying out timing events against piston postion for base mapping or track day tuning changes.
But I have alot of parts to test and designs to draw and build so that I can test some more.
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I have just recently switched to Maft-Pro SD on my NA. Would this unit be able to tune the ITB's, or would I have to go with a standalone ecu? Or is that hoping for too much. I have the cams, titanium valves, stroker kit, eagle H rods, 060 pistons, etc. So far the Maft-Pro is helping to use those mods, but, I think the ITB's would really make a difference.
The ecu I'll be getting is made just for these type of retro-fit distributor applications. At my application developer price I'm saying $800 and I have the right to share expenses or outright mark-up. It depends on the person.
I have the new ecu specs if you'd like to see them pm me. I really need mature people in on these application developer deals. I work hard. I'm not vending parts. But I'm passionate about the engine designs. I've also studied Mercedes, Daimler, Jaguar and Ferrari I6 engines for customers. I did the Chevy 4.2 I6 for myself because I think an older Camaro would be cool with one. My Aunt is an original owner of a 71 Camaro and I love that car.
The nature of them is that of course everyone wants dyno results and that is exactly what I want. But from conception to dyno can be difficult to navigate and keep people informed. I studied hard all the threads I could about the custom manifolds you guys want and realized my approach was different.
I have the new ecu specs if you'd like to see them pm me. I really need mature people in on these application developer deals. I work hard. I'm not vending parts. But I'm passionate about the engine designs. I've also studied Mercedes, Daimler, Jaguar and Ferrari I6 engines for customers. I did the Chevy 4.2 I6 for myself because I think an older Camaro would be cool with one. My Aunt is an original owner of a 71 Camaro and I love that car.
The nature of them is that of course everyone wants dyno results and that is exactly what I want. But from conception to dyno can be difficult to navigate and keep people informed. I studied hard all the threads I could about the custom manifolds you guys want and realized my approach was different.
AJ'S 88NA said:
If you have converted to speed density, the maft-pro will do this, depending on your tip-in settings.
Thank you uppercaseD. I think I'm starting to get an idea of the amount of work you guys have done.
You just didn't really have the opportunity like you do now. I'm saying, "heads-up, by spring there is going to be a retrofit ecu specifically for distributor based-ignitions and efi." I am letting you know now. I am also saying I will extend a price of $800 to forum members.
I am not saying I have enough information yet to formalize the group-buy procedure. It isn't a group-buy anyway.
Our vendors deserve our support. I am two-steps away from them. I design for our engines how to apply products for them to sell.
If you don't know a good thing when you see it, then it might be that you can't tell a bad thing either. This ecu is a good thing. I'm not customer service. But if you have a specific question about power I will answer it.
I fantasize what I want to happen when I design. If I fantasized what I want from you guys I would have two lists that said-
wants to buy
and
will buy
I would respond to the the lists on a first-come, first serve basis.
On the "wants to buy" list, I would send a 5 page spec sheet so you could gather your own specs. This is really important for those of you too inexperienced to just buy one. By the time you have collected the information you wlll start to feel like you know are educated enough to join the "will buy" list.
The "will buy" list addresses I have the money, gimme my ecu. On my cs.com list there is one "will buy". There are eight "want to buy". I discuss the interest with the parties involved and get feedback on concerns. The parties include owners, manufacturers, and vendors.
Trust has to be there. I suppose I could design suspiciously, and the manufacturers could manufacture with the contempt a burned consumer feels but I'm sharing developement-level information with you, I'm not a commercial.
If you regard my work like you would have me regard your's we could have a better understanding. If not I'm already gone....
When I talk to someone face-to-face they have my undivided attention. When you, in a thread I started, where the comments-to-views ratio looks like this in a technical thread, ask me to answer your question, treat me like we are talking face-to-face.
Many have already chosen to contact me via the usual methods. They already know what I'll say to the questions you might still want to ask.
AJ, thanks to you and all that pm'd me.
Tell me, though, you know that hardware and software have such brief generations. A new ecuis like a new desktop. I don't even believe anyone gets anyone to buy a piggyback anything. I've used alot of it and I just wasted my time. It's a far better use of my time and your money to get that shit outta there once and for all. A new ecu designed for us would be nearly plug-n-play if I was installing my own.
No way any of you have a seven-year old desktop. Why call even as sophisticated the mission and operation of the Maft-Pro SD anything other than "good-enough-for-now"? For you AJ I will do my best to offer to you a straight-across trade- a new ecu for all your add-ons. There is a PLX wide-band deal to offer with the ecu, too.
I'm not stupid or charitable. AJ will be my thrall. Willing, too. I make this offer because I'll get his stuff and he will stop making un-grampa like noises at me. He will stand tall and go fast and get ITBs and a manifold. Gramma will pester him for continued demonstrations of his prowess...."...faster AJ faster...".
It could even be faster. I can make an aluminum sheetmetal manifold for your dream application in one day. But it will take me four days just to gather your specs. My time is valuable to me. The people that have pm'd me now know my price for a custom aluminum sheetmetal manifold because I just said how fast I can turn one around and I know I told them privately what I charge in $/hr.
If I know all your specs I am ready. If you know all your specs, you are ready. If you don't know your specs I will help you figure them out. If you want me to figure them out contact me by pm, email, or phone. Some of you have as complex a build as there is. I understand.
You just didn't really have the opportunity like you do now. I'm saying, "heads-up, by spring there is going to be a retrofit ecu specifically for distributor based-ignitions and efi." I am letting you know now. I am also saying I will extend a price of $800 to forum members.
I am not saying I have enough information yet to formalize the group-buy procedure. It isn't a group-buy anyway.
Our vendors deserve our support. I am two-steps away from them. I design for our engines how to apply products for them to sell.
If you don't know a good thing when you see it, then it might be that you can't tell a bad thing either. This ecu is a good thing. I'm not customer service. But if you have a specific question about power I will answer it.
I fantasize what I want to happen when I design. If I fantasized what I want from you guys I would have two lists that said-
wants to buy
and
will buy
I would respond to the the lists on a first-come, first serve basis.
On the "wants to buy" list, I would send a 5 page spec sheet so you could gather your own specs. This is really important for those of you too inexperienced to just buy one. By the time you have collected the information you wlll start to feel like you know are educated enough to join the "will buy" list.
The "will buy" list addresses I have the money, gimme my ecu. On my cs.com list there is one "will buy". There are eight "want to buy". I discuss the interest with the parties involved and get feedback on concerns. The parties include owners, manufacturers, and vendors.
Trust has to be there. I suppose I could design suspiciously, and the manufacturers could manufacture with the contempt a burned consumer feels but I'm sharing developement-level information with you, I'm not a commercial.
If you regard my work like you would have me regard your's we could have a better understanding. If not I'm already gone....
When I talk to someone face-to-face they have my undivided attention. When you, in a thread I started, where the comments-to-views ratio looks like this in a technical thread, ask me to answer your question, treat me like we are talking face-to-face.
Many have already chosen to contact me via the usual methods. They already know what I'll say to the questions you might still want to ask.
AJ, thanks to you and all that pm'd me.
Tell me, though, you know that hardware and software have such brief generations. A new ecuis like a new desktop. I don't even believe anyone gets anyone to buy a piggyback anything. I've used alot of it and I just wasted my time. It's a far better use of my time and your money to get that shit outta there once and for all. A new ecu designed for us would be nearly plug-n-play if I was installing my own.
No way any of you have a seven-year old desktop. Why call even as sophisticated the mission and operation of the Maft-Pro SD anything other than "good-enough-for-now"? For you AJ I will do my best to offer to you a straight-across trade- a new ecu for all your add-ons. There is a PLX wide-band deal to offer with the ecu, too.
I'm not stupid or charitable. AJ will be my thrall. Willing, too. I make this offer because I'll get his stuff and he will stop making un-grampa like noises at me. He will stand tall and go fast and get ITBs and a manifold. Gramma will pester him for continued demonstrations of his prowess...."...faster AJ faster...".
It could even be faster. I can make an aluminum sheetmetal manifold for your dream application in one day. But it will take me four days just to gather your specs. My time is valuable to me. The people that have pm'd me now know my price for a custom aluminum sheetmetal manifold because I just said how fast I can turn one around and I know I told them privately what I charge in $/hr.
If I know all your specs I am ready. If you know all your specs, you are ready. If you don't know your specs I will help you figure them out. If you want me to figure them out contact me by pm, email, or phone. Some of you have as complex a build as there is. I understand.
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Thanks Doward. So as I understand it the Maft-Pro w/SD will be able to control a ITB setup. My wallet will be very happy to hear that:icon_bigg. My car runs so much better with only a half-ass tune on it now that I'm really looking forward for the tune to be complete so I can dyno it again. Putting ITB's I guess would be the icing on the cake and probably be the only other thing I could do to this motor to max it out short of joining the "turbo club". Well maybe a few things more:naughty:Doward said:
sarinas_dragons said:
Whoa whoa whoa - Alpha N fueling is completely outdated. Is this new ECU you are talking about going to be using Alpha N? At least have an option for MAP/MAF for those of us who prefer a fueling that is a bit more flexible.
What works for Alpha N in Daytona Beach will NOT work nearly as well in Denver!
Heads have a Stage I port job, cams have 322lift and 218 dur. @ 50, and I have 10.5-1 compression now, wanted to run pump gas as to why I didn't go any higher with compression. It's acually checking with the compression test, around 11-1. Nitrous ahhhh, maybe. With the 97.5mm stroke I wouldn't want to shorten the life of the motor too much. I wouldn't want to have to rebuild too soon:naughty:Doward said:ITBs + nitrous... heads + camsLots of compression. c16
Doward with you I believe I can speak freely.
I'm motivated by the understanding the OEMs and their entire workforce are haulin' ass in another direction away from us.
In 8 years there will be no more camshafts. I want a billet for the cams I want to experiment with. WE have to react faster than we are.
The future of speed control is not fuel control or air flow control. It is pump control.
Buy an ecu now. Buy cams now. Help by testing. The OEMs are already gone........
Back to pump control. The OEMs are guided by research. Their research has paid off. They removed airflow obstructions, and intend to control the pump with the ecu-controlled, solenoid-type operated valve. These valves can have different durations and lifts, infinitely adjusting to load immediately.
All the worlds' talent is focused on this. We can't afford them. Do it now, motherfuckers.
I still hold the enormity of your D in awe. Bye-bye alpha n, we never really knew you....
Remember, man? Carburetor shops? Radiator shops? We live off the leavings of the OEMs and we are not paying attention.
I'm motivated by the understanding the OEMs and their entire workforce are haulin' ass in another direction away from us.
In 8 years there will be no more camshafts. I want a billet for the cams I want to experiment with. WE have to react faster than we are.
The future of speed control is not fuel control or air flow control. It is pump control.
Buy an ecu now. Buy cams now. Help by testing. The OEMs are already gone........
Back to pump control. The OEMs are guided by research. Their research has paid off. They removed airflow obstructions, and intend to control the pump with the ecu-controlled, solenoid-type operated valve. These valves can have different durations and lifts, infinitely adjusting to load immediately.
All the worlds' talent is focused on this. We can't afford them. Do it now, motherfuckers.
I still hold the enormity of your D in awe. Bye-bye alpha n, we never really knew you....
Remember, man? Carburetor shops? Radiator shops? We live off the leavings of the OEMs and we are not paying attention.
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Yes, look at the new 2.0 Solstice GXP motor, using direct gas injection.
Look at the latest Benz/BMWs using electrically operated valves.
The internal combustion engine hasn't changed its basic properties since it was invented - get air and fuel in, combust, and get the exhaust gases out, while doing it all as efficiently as possible.
The current non-adjustable camshaft/intake systems leave you with a very narrow band of peak power, highest VE, and the least BSFC.
By being able to adjust the camshaft (Vtec and its derivatives) or the intake systems (dual stage intakes and their derivatives) you are able to widen that band of highest efficiency.
Being able to completely control the valve timing in relation to the airflow velocities will yield the highest VE across the board.
With a carb, you can have the best fueling at WOT, or part throttle - but rarely both.
Fuel injection fixed that. Now you can have the best fueling for any throttle, and with the help of other sensor, you can have the optimal fueling for any barometric pressure, or temperature that the engine is in.
Electronically controlled ignition fixed the problem of having the best spark at any point.
Electronically controlled valves will fix the problem of 'which cam' - you'll have the optimum valve timings for any situation.
OEMs are still refining even the stuff we have now - Direct injection of the gas allows for MUCH higher fuel pressures, and allows for much better atomization of the gas, for instance.
The problem with it all, is weighing cost vs complexity.
Look at the latest Benz/BMWs using electrically operated valves.
The internal combustion engine hasn't changed its basic properties since it was invented - get air and fuel in, combust, and get the exhaust gases out, while doing it all as efficiently as possible.
The current non-adjustable camshaft/intake systems leave you with a very narrow band of peak power, highest VE, and the least BSFC.
By being able to adjust the camshaft (Vtec and its derivatives) or the intake systems (dual stage intakes and their derivatives) you are able to widen that band of highest efficiency.
Being able to completely control the valve timing in relation to the airflow velocities will yield the highest VE across the board.
With a carb, you can have the best fueling at WOT, or part throttle - but rarely both.
Fuel injection fixed that. Now you can have the best fueling for any throttle, and with the help of other sensor, you can have the optimal fueling for any barometric pressure, or temperature that the engine is in.
Electronically controlled ignition fixed the problem of having the best spark at any point.
Electronically controlled valves will fix the problem of 'which cam' - you'll have the optimum valve timings for any situation.
OEMs are still refining even the stuff we have now - Direct injection of the gas allows for MUCH higher fuel pressures, and allows for much better atomization of the gas, for instance.
The problem with it all, is weighing cost vs complexity.
Man you guys are making my head hurt again. I can understand most of what you are saying even as simple minded as I am, I guess some of it's sinking in. That's a good thing. Your final statement Doward is my main concern with all of this. Weighing the cost vs complexity(remember my simple mind) and weighing the $$amount to gains.
Sarinas, your input on all of this is appreciated also. Un-Grampa noises, being one is like nothing else I know of. I'm just concerned with the noises Grandma would make if I put another 2k in this motor, I'll probably have to stock up on "Depends". Not that it isn't doable for me just as I said above my concerns with cost vs gains. I'm not out to break any speed records just would like to see how far I can go with this NA.
Sarinas, your input on all of this is appreciated also. Un-Grampa noises, being one is like nothing else I know of. I'm just concerned with the noises Grandma would make if I put another 2k in this motor, I'll probably have to stock up on "Depends". Not that it isn't doable for me just as I said above my concerns with cost vs gains. I'm not out to break any speed records just would like to see how far I can go with this NA.
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Doward, you need to talk this out. I've read your posts. You never revealed understanding like this before. Talk to me. Why have you held this in?
When I post my notes it's for men that understand what I've written. In the political forums I think one is expected to dumb-down philosophy, ethics, citizenship and opinion.
But in engineering how can we be dumb? Who are our contemporaries?
See what I mean? We have to fund cam billets first, not confront the ridicule of wannabes. If we wanted 500 billets made for 5/6/7Ms at 400 per would cost $200,000.
7731 members at cs.com.
200000 / 7731 = $25.87 per intake cam and $25.87 per exhaust cam for 250 sets of free cams to give out to the first 250 members who are ready. Get the next order ready for the next guys.
None of us can afford to do it alone. We need each other. It is a matter of how it is asked of us to include or exclude ourselves in something that is for our own good.
Using the itbs as an example- 100 sets @ $1295 = 129500 / 6916 = $18.72 for the first 100 sets to the first 100 members ready. Everyone can want them. everone can participate. There is enough ITBs and participation for everybody.
I bet for less than $20 per member almost every member could overcome their fear to belong. Ten years from now the stuff we will design and build will be priceless you guys. How much do you think my dad's collection of Jags inspires me to risk your ridicule to tell you this?
dreams, just dreams.....wait, I got mine.
When I post my notes it's for men that understand what I've written. In the political forums I think one is expected to dumb-down philosophy, ethics, citizenship and opinion.
But in engineering how can we be dumb? Who are our contemporaries?
See what I mean? We have to fund cam billets first, not confront the ridicule of wannabes. If we wanted 500 billets made for 5/6/7Ms at 400 per would cost $200,000.
7731 members at cs.com.
200000 / 7731 = $25.87 per intake cam and $25.87 per exhaust cam for 250 sets of free cams to give out to the first 250 members who are ready. Get the next order ready for the next guys.
None of us can afford to do it alone. We need each other. It is a matter of how it is asked of us to include or exclude ourselves in something that is for our own good.
Using the itbs as an example- 100 sets @ $1295 = 129500 / 6916 = $18.72 for the first 100 sets to the first 100 members ready. Everyone can want them. everone can participate. There is enough ITBs and participation for everybody.
I bet for less than $20 per member almost every member could overcome their fear to belong. Ten years from now the stuff we will design and build will be priceless you guys. How much do you think my dad's collection of Jags inspires me to risk your ridicule to tell you this?
dreams, just dreams.....wait, I got mine.
sarinas_dragons said:
Honestly, it's because I'm rather blunt, and I'm not currently at the point where I will sit down and work out what I need from ITBs at the moment.
You are working out ITBs based on a much different system than I - you are working a high compression, nitrous fed 7MGE.
I will be working a low compression, high density intake charge, nitrous fed 7MGTE. You know as well as I that the density difference between my 38.7 absolute psi pressure and your 14.7 absolute psi pressure will affect the intake pulse speed.
I have no problem discussing anything on this forum with any of its many varied members. Rather, I tend to enjoy it immensely!
Also as an aside - the MAFT-Pro is not a complex piece of engineering. It simply takes a signal, and allows you to morph and adjust it to your whim. The TCCS, on the other hand, is an amazingly robust system, especially considering its age. Remember, the ECU doesn't have Microsoft trying to suck your money from you
The comparison of desktop computer to ECU is a crude one, and frankly, inaccurate when used within the system we are running. That's not to say that our platforms can't be made more complex - look at upgradedsupra, or IJ, as prime examples. Don't look at kwnate though, he can't even get out of the 14s :rofl:When you combine the MAFT-Pro with the TCCS, you get a very good system for the price, that will serve many needs, up until a point (and in my opinion, that point is when you need greater than 550cc injectors)
Just another .02