20psi on pump gas, if you dont know, dont answer...

[tissimo]

I dont see meth being a bandaid.. I see it as higher octane fuel.. No different then mixing 110 and 93 octane or what not..

You can have several options as far as fail safes.. Depending on how you tune the meth (if using the nitrous map) and the pressure switch on the meth pump.. If the switch isn't throw then it wont pull fuel nor mess with timing (depends on how you tune) plus revert boost back to normal (not enableing high boost) or wastegate (can be done with a vsv). Depending if using a 2 step, if not you could have it cut the engine out completely(turn on 2step at 2k rpms or so). You could also have it throw a switch which will retard timing and add fuel (pretty sure you can do that, I dont remember exactly)

Aem can control the gm solenoid or any other solenoid but only has 2 options, low and high I guess you can setup three if you have a switch cutting the power to the solenoid (so wastegate, low then high)

 

[Doward]

Wastegate/low/high would be my choice, in that case.

I agree with how you'd set up the meth system - definitely have an override switch so that if something goes wrong, it reverts back.

Either way, you still do not want your base tune to include the meth in its equation - you could tie the high boost setting and the meth together, and have the meth pump switch knock you back to 'low' boost setting if there is a problem with the meth system.

Most of the horror stories out there, whether with meth, water, or nitrous, generally the installation did NOT include any fail safes.

 

[IJ.]

It's a bandaid pure and simple....

If you need a higher octane fuel by all means run one but if the goal is a pump gas tune do it right and not by crossing your fingers and hoping everything in the Meth kit will continue to function.

 

[Doward]

It's a bandaid pure and simple....

If you need a higher octane fuel by all means run one but if the goal is a pump gas tune do it right and not by crossing your fingers and hoping everything in the Meth kit will continue to function.

Agreed.

If you want 500hp, pump gas, then tune it as best you can, and see where you stand. The turbo will certainly do it - I have doubts as to the airflow capabilities of your motor, though. Are you running stock cams?

I'd set the meth injection up just like I would a nitrous system - something that gets run 1/4 mile at a time, can be frequently inspected, and is NOT detrimental to your tune when absent.

Ian, I think Justin's saying the same thing I am, if I'm reading him right. We're not saying to use Meth Inj to get what he wants (500hp on pump gas) just saying it could be good for that 'extra something' in a 1/4 mile standpoint.

Personally, I won't do meth inj or nitrous in my own vehicle, only because I firmly believe in 'run what ya brung' - and I damn well bring it each and every time I step up to the plate

 

[figgie]

e85 and that is totaly doable

as an aside

what RWHP are you looking for to be running such a huge spring?

 

[tissimo]

e85 and that is totaly doable

as an aside

what RWHP are you looking for to be running such a huge spring?

i wish there was e85 in fl

 

[kwnate]

500 will be easy on your turbo jake. Probably 18psi will do it.

 

[Reign_Maker]

I think what Im going to do is just put in the smaller spring and let my tuner do his magic... Like IJ said, I should just let it be tuned for safe pump gas and be happy with what I have... It will be reliable, and still be better than what I had before... I was thrilled with 475rwhp on pump, I trust John's knowledge and Nate's results that I will be well over 500hp on pump...

I dont know what fail safes there are... I dont know what an AEM can do, Im no tuner... But, whatever it takes, I will do it... And I REALLY appreciate all the input...

John, Im running stock cams for now, I want to see a TRUE before and after result... So cams will come... However, I do have 1mm OS valves and a really REALLY good P&P on the head... So the head will flow much better than stock, but not as good as cams... Im waiting for Nate to show me the way... Hurry up Nate...

As for nitrous, that will come I think, down the road... When we built the bottom end, we built it for a small shot, like 50-100... *tollerances and all*

 

[buldozr]

sorry, whats everyones fascination over e85??? The last car and driver I read showed a comparison of a tahoe with e85 and regular(untainted) 87octane and the tahoe showed 4mpg less and almost 50hp less on e85 than regular fuel... enlighten me please.

 

[Poodles]

that's flexfuel

a car fulled tuned on E85 can push a LOT more power than that

 

[Reign_Maker]

enlighten me please.

Not in this thread... Please dont stray my thread OT... I understand your interest, but please start a new thread for that...

 

[buldozr]

sorry. Good luck on your build.

 

[dbsupra90]

i think your decision to swap to a smaller spring is a good one.

but one last thought here. i think once you throw in some high octane and high boost you are going to be hooked. once you feel that setup then go back to pump gas and lower boost your car will feel broken lol. clear out a spot in your garage for a drum of race gas

 

[NashMan]

any thign pushed that hard will not last to long all comes down to air fule ratio really and ton of other varbiles ect

in the end you will know what you feel is best when talkign wiht your tuner of choice

Nash: It's not a matter (with me anyway) of being able to do it 'for a while' - I want to KNOW that 100,000 miles later, the motor will perform just like it does for me today (well, not today per se, as it's all torn apart, but you get the idea )

Tissimo: You're right, that's why you can get a few extra ponies from upping the factory timing table - but why do you think that is? You don't think the engineers @ Toyota are setting these @ MBT, and backing off a few degrees for longevity?

Now, once you start modifying - then what the engineers back @ Toyota set up is thrown out the window. This is also exactly why modifying something without know exactly what it does is so dangerous.

It's also why a lot of guys pay the tuners so much $$. You're paying them for their knowledge of what everything does.

You're right, there are more variables than those we are discussing here, but overall, a 12% difference will certainly be noticed.

 

[Doward]

Jake, you do realize that you will need to re-tune it after cams are in, right? Are you comfortable paying a tuner twice?

That said, you will see a very large difference in your setup, running that WG spring on stock cams tuned, vs running the WG spring on real cams tuned.

 

[QWIKSTRIKE]

That's the t04r wheel, yes? 67mm inducer/84mm exducer? Same as the PT67? If so, here you go -

(182.5ci * 7200rpm)/3456 = 380.208cfm of airflow. I'm going to say you should be around 90% VE, so 342.1872 cfm.

(20psi + 14.7psi)/14.7psi = 2.36 Pressure Ratio - Therefore, you are flowing 807.562cfm aka 55.80 lbs/min of airflow moving through your engine.

El Mapo dell Compressario for you:

Not accounting for intercooler efficiency, you should be around 73% efficiency with that turbo @ 90% VE @ 7200rpm on your .020" overbored 7M.

If you want, let me know what A/R your turbine section (and trim wheel) you've got, and I'll plot you out an idea of how the turbo will work for you.

That said, you've got PLENTY of fuel, and standalone so you should have no problem running 20psi of boost on pump gas - ESPECIALLY if you are still on the stock cams!

Remember, boost is resistance to flow - the proper frame of mind for you Jake, is can I run xxx rwhp daily on my setup.

My advice - get her on a dyno, and ensure that your timing is MBT.

I have done it, and as long as you are tuned with an after market stand alone computer to no more than 11.5 WOT you will be fine. Go to Garret Turbos and read fuel lessons and see what it says. It's all about the Tune. Dew511 here also runs 20 psi on pump and has had no issues. If the tuner tunes for load and gives a conservative 11.0 AFR it would be more than attainable! That will be my test setup for the street. Dew511 I believe is running 11.0 or high 10.s to accomodate the higher boost pressure. Remeber detonation is the enemy, and having the proper fuel AFR, and enuough fuel is all that is needed unless running leaner AFR's on the agressive side. That said if the tune is 11.0 AFR and you have fuel it can be done. The dyno is your friend also when it is all said and ddone check to be sure. Even if you are not on stock cams and you have a good tuner you would be fine. Dew511 is also running cams at 20+ psi of boost. I have richened up the fuel and run 20 psi on the street with the wide band being monitored, and have had no issues. Just make sure you have 720+ injectors and a fuel pump to handle the flow, and a 11.0 AFR WOT and go for it.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech102.html

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech103.html

 

[MRSUPRA]

I still reccomend trying methanal injection. There are members on SF that have been running it safely for several years. On our motors, a big 67mm turbo is not going to be in its efficiency range untill about mid-20psi level. From what I've seen, a 61mm turbo and a 67mm turbo are very close in power at around 17-20psi, but after that the 67 will start producing a lot more power.

I just paid $12.05 per gallon for C16 race gas ($60.**for 5 gallons).. And then I remembered I'm not rich.

 

[QWIKSTRIKE]

I think what Im going to do is just put in the smaller spring and let my tuner do his magic... Like IJ said, I should just let it be tuned for safe pump gas and be happy with what I have... It will be reliable, and still be better than what I had before... I was thrilled with 475rwhp on pump, I trust John's knowledge and Nate's results that I will be well over 500hp on pump...

I dont know what fail safes there are... I dont know what an AEM can do, Im no tuner... But, whatever it takes, I will do it... And I REALLY appreciate all the input...

John, Im running stock cams for now, I want to see a TRUE before and after result... So cams will come... However, I do have 1mm OS valves and a really REALLY good P&P on the head... So the head will flow much better than stock, but not as good as cams... Im waiting for Nate to show me the way... Hurry up Nate...

As for nitrous, that will come I think, down the road... When we built the bottom end, we built it for a small shot, like 50-100... *tollerances and all*

Just get tuned conservatively, and keep it rich WOT, and all will be fine. Tuning too agressively on the street, and low octane is your enemy. An AEM or any standalone can achieve this. It all depends on how agressive thpse
AFRS are at WOT.

 

[QWIKSTRIKE]

I still reccomend trying methanal injection. There are members on SF that have been running it safely for several years. On our motors, a big 67mm turbo is not going to be in its efficiency range untill about mid-20psi level. From what I've seen, a 61mm turbo and a 67mm turbo are very close in power at around 17-20psi, but after that the 67 will start producing a lot more power.

I just paid $12.05 per gallon for C16 race gas ($60.**for 5 gallons).. And then I remembered I'm not rich.

Running Meth kits are fine, However don't set it up to run as a band aid for tune. tune the Damn car with a good fat AFR of 11.0 at WOT dno to check how it is running, and after taht is said and done you can add a Meth kit for insurance. Running a Meth kit at leaner AFRS is just going to give trouble in the long run. That meth injector clogs or you unknowingly run out of the injetor meth mix and boom. I see many people run meth as a cure for leaner afrs, and the results are fine if nothing fails. If you run out of fluid, or a clogged meth injector then boom.

 

[drjonez]

I still reccomend trying methanal injection. There are members on SF that have been running it safely for several years. On our motors, a big 67mm turbo is not going to be in its efficiency range untill about mid-20psi level. From what I've seen, a 61mm turbo and a 67mm turbo are very close in power at around 17-20psi, but after that the 67 will start producing a lot more power.

I just paid $12.05 per gallon for C16 race gas ($60.**for 5 gallons).. And then I remembered I'm not rich.

race gas is still VERY cheap here- 110 for $5.25/gal, 116 for $10/gal....ironic that it doesn't go up nearly as fast as pump gas....