20psi on pump gas, if you dont know, dont answer...

[tissimo]

And can someone please explain to me where this notion of needing more timing to make more power ever came into play??

Some cars are concervative on timing values and leave power on the table.. so more timing can make more power..



yea there is more heat and less dense air regardless, but its hard to put a % value on it since there are so many variables..

 

[Doward]

Nash: It's not a matter (with me anyway) of being able to do it 'for a while' - I want to KNOW that 100,000 miles later, the motor will perform just like it does for me today (well, not today per se, as it's all torn apart, but you get the idea )

Tissimo: You're right, that's why you can get a few extra ponies from upping the factory timing table - but why do you think that is? You don't think the engineers @ Toyota are setting these @ MBT, and backing off a few degrees for longevity?

Now, once you start modifying - then what the engineers back @ Toyota set up is thrown out the window. This is also exactly why modifying something without know exactly what it does is so dangerous.

It's also why a lot of guys pay the tuners so much $$. You're paying them for their knowledge of what everything does.

You're right, there are more variables than those we are discussing here, but overall, a 12% difference will certainly be noticed.

 

[kwnate]

Jake, You know my setup. It did 540whp, 20psi 92 octane. I would like to run 18psi on pump, but my wastegate won't let me :cry: You should make 520-550 on pump and 650-699 on race gas :icon_razz Isn't that good enough???

 

[Reign_Maker]

Nate: no... never good enough... YOU of all people should know that... If it WAS good enough, you wouldnt be doing what you're doing now...

Doward: we gotta sit down one day and go over maps... I read what you're sayin, but for some reason, I cant decifer it... You have A LOT of really good information, you're definately an assett... Keep writing, I'll keep reading, and eventually, it will all sink in...

Brent: I have those smaller springs I bought from you... Well, i bought the 14psi spring, but you sent me the bigger ones, so I blame you, if you hadnt sent me the bigger ones, I'd have a 14psi spring in there, lol... Its all Brent's fault, hahaha...

Justin: why dont you come up here and HELP me!!! You and John know your shit, swing though G-ville and get John and the two of you come up here and straighten me out... I got room for ya'll to crash...

 

[Doward]

LOL, I got no problems with that. It'd have to be a weekend for me though - school + 2 jobs = no M-F time

 

[7Mboost]

Don't these turbo's really come alive after 25psi? Of course you want to run high/safely as you can, imo I would run 15-18psi and then a race gas tune. Actually since (I assume) your getting your car runed at Titan ask them, that is their job and they will probably have the safest best choice of boost, except Doward and his infinite knowledge of turbos! I don't think I understood an one of his posts so far! A smart man right there.

 

[Reign_Maker]

Jeff, you're lucky to have him as a resource so close by...

 

[tissimo]

Tissimo: You're right, that's why you can get a few extra ponies from upping the factory timing table - but why do you think that is? You don't think the engineers @ Toyota are setting these @ MBT, and backing off a few degrees for longevity?

but it was tuned for completely different conditions.. High back pressure exhaust.. less efficenct turbos and intercoolers..

haha yea jake... maybe you'll finally get it done then

 

[TealMetallicDream]

anything over 17psi on pump gas i have personaly found is not to be a good idea to run. Cylinder temps will get so hot (even at a 11.7:1 AFR) that it will want to perignite the fuel before ignition. Note it can be done there is no dobt about that but id look at reliability over power. Put a 15lbd spring in it and have a nice electric boost controller. That way if you wanna crank 20psi just put some 110 in it wait till it starts running through the system and crank the boost up.(obviously adding more fuel to richen it up a bit)

 

[Reign_Maker]

Justin: the door is always open...

Teal: Im using an AEM, so when its tuned, its tuned, Im not touching shit...

 

[7Mboost]

Jeff, you're lucky to have him as a resource so close by...

Indeed!:biglaugh:

 

[tissimo]

I say 15 psi spring.. then with a switch (for aem boost controller) 24 psi with meth why run 500 on pump when you could have 600

 

[Reign_Maker]

If I did that Justin, wouldnt it throw my base map off? Basically going to have two maps, street tune/lowboost/pump gas and highboost/race tune... I wanted to do a 20 low boost and 30 high boost map... I like the GM boost solenoid, but I hate that you can only have two settings... If I had my "wish", I'd have 3 boost settings... Spring rate, 15-18psi... Mid boost, 23-25psi... And high boost, 30+psi...

 

[TealMetallicDream]

dose it have anykind of 2 settings setup you can do. I heard of programs that use it for cars running nitrous. Map 1 for basic driving and map 2 for nitrous/high boost. Just my 2cents to try and help ya ouy. Good luck with the build wichever way you go.
Another thing you may consider is a methinjection kit. You wire it up to a hobb switch so at a specific amount of boost or higher 17, 18psi the meth injection will spray in super cooling the aircharge and will prevent/delay detonation.

Edit: totlay didnt even read those last 3 post's and kinda repeted it. my bad

 

[tissimo]

you could have it on 1 map just use nitrous map for the meth.. but yea only 2 boost settings sucks

But loading 2 maps isn't that big of a deal imo really.. causes really how often would you be putting c16 in and going 30+ psi..


could do a vsv with a mbc, but thats sortta ghetto.. but would work..

 

[Reign_Maker]

Teal, yeah, the aem has just two maps, I believe... *dont quote me, just what I hear* I dont trust the meth switch thing, WAAAAAY too many stories about how they fail, didnt work, came on late, etc...

 

[tissimo]

Teal, yeah, the aem has just two maps, I believe... *dont quote me, just what I hear* I dont trust the meth switch thing, WAAAAAY too many stories about how they fail, didnt work, came on late, etc...

you can setup failsafes with aem so it shouldn't be a problem..

 

[Doward]

Justin: That's why as soon as you modify anything on the motor, you change the parameters of efficient tune

What failsafe devices can you set up with the AEM? Never messed with the EMS before (maybe I should go play with Jeff's and see what all it actually supports ) Knock sensing is a start, but that's only after the fact - but it's damn sure better than nothing.

Jake: I haven't personally played with the AEM EMS, but I'm fairly certain you should have an array of 3-4 extra switches that you can program to come on.

The meth injection is nice - but if it fails, you are completely F'd, if that is what you tuned your setup around.

Personally, when I tune any of my cars, I make the car ran like it did from the factory. I'm not a big fan of extra circuits (ala meth injection or nitrous) that if they fail, seriously alter the needed fuel.

Nitrous is a really good example. I always run a separate fuel system specifically for the nitrous, with a kill switch that overrides the system if fuel pressure is not achieved in the line. Do I tune as though the nitrous were always on? Of course not.

You have a turbocharged 3.0L I6. Decide on what you want to run 'daily' and tune it for that. Set up the extra maps/external devices so that if they fail, you are automatically back on 'normal' mode. This is the safest way to run on the street, imho.

Also, are you saying the AEM EMS can't control a GM boost solenoid on a duty cycle setup? That's REALLY fucking lame if that's the case. :3d_frown:

Jeff: Hit me up whenever you need. Matter of fact, haven't seen much of you lately! Met up with a kid in my Calc 2 class that's turbocharging his '94 (I think) Prelude that knows you and your brother, lol.

 

[IJ.]

If you keep IAT's low and timing conservative it's doable.

You may not reach the same peak outputs as you could with more timing but that will get you too close to the detonation threshold.

When you have it tuned they'll probably use a pair of electronic ears to listen for detonation then back it down a few degrees to be safe.

Don't get caught up with numbers it's meaningless just have it tuned correctly and be happy with the results.

Your ultimate limiter is going to be ignition anyway as once over 20psi it's hard to keep it lit 100% without spending mega$$$.

"Bandaids" suck ie:Meth, water injection and so on.

 

[Doward]

"Bandaids" suck ie:Meth, water injection and so on.

Heed this man's words.