200RWHP

[Nalleywhacker]

i have a turbo and a n/a. the turbo is stock exepct for exhaust, and my na is bored .30, ross racing pistons, colt cams, ported head,and headers intake and exhaust and the turbo is still faster! no by much but it pulls away from 3rd gear on. there is nothing wrong with the 7mge its a great motor it just toyota wasnt thinking when they put it in a 3600 pound car!

 

[Tanya]

I'm sure you meant .030 over and not .30, that's a big pet peeve of mine, lol.

Would like to see the dyno on your n/a though

 

[7Mboost]

Maybe you could fulfil my wonders and build a GE built for something like a 300 shot. serious.

 

[labrat469]

When comparing N/A vs Turbo let's not forget that turbo's have differrent transmissions and rearends. The turbo is geared for high speeds and open diffs vs LSD. I suppect if you put a mild built N/A into a turbo body it would be a different story.

 

[CRE]

The transmission gearing is almost identical but the R154 is quite a bit heavier. Also the taller end gear in the turbo won't help the GE at all in terms of acceleration... it'll only hurt it, but not by too much.

 

[queenskid926]

I just about to say the same thing Cre. Performance wise the taller end gear ratio will reduce a GE acceleration but will give a higher topspeed and better fuel economy on the highway.

 

[Nalleywhacker]

I'm sure you meant .030 over and not .30, that's a big pet peeve of mine, lol.

Would like to see the dyno on your n/a though

my bad .030 over. no dyno. i got one of those gtech things not sure how accurate they are but it said 183hp and 196tq.

 

[Tanya]

meh.

I don't know why people waste money on those things, rather than get ACCURATE results with a dyno. Someday when you have like $60 burning a hole in your pocket, you should dyno it. Too many sad n/a dynos (140whp, wtf?), we need some good ones.

 

[Nalleywhacker]

meh.

I don't know why people waste money on those things, rather than get ACCURATE results with a dyno. Someday when you have like $60 burning a hole in your pocket, you should dyno it. Too many sad n/a dynos (140whp, wtf?), we need some good ones.

yeah it was a gift so no complants lol but yeah dyno sessions around here are a little more than that at least 100 here but some day i will.

 

[CRE]

Comparing dyno results is practically worthless... too much deviation from one shop to the next and it only gets worse if the make of the dyno changes. Don't get me wrong, they're good for checking to see where you're at and if your work is paying off, but only if you're running on the same machine and they haven't changed software or correction factors between sessions.


EDIT: Okay, it's not worthless, but it's not completely accurate or reliable.

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

Comparing dyno results is practically worthless... too much deviation from one shop to the next and it only gets worse if the make of the dyno changes. Don't get me wrong, they're good for checking to see where you're at and if your work is paying off, but only if you're running on the same machine and they haven't changed software or correction factors between sessions.


EDIT: Okay, it's not worthless, but it's not completely accurate or reliable.

I aggree with going to the same dyno to check your progress. I guess the G-tec could serve the same purpose, not as accurate but maybe accurate enough to see any changes besides your "butt dyno":biglaugh:

 

[labrat469]

The transmission gearing is almost identical but the R154 is quite a bit heavier. Also the taller end gear in the turbo won't help the GE at all in terms of acceleration... it'll only hurt it, but not by too much.

Let's play with some ideas here. This might help other members in deciding on mods. You've stated the weight of the R154 being a problem. Which is heavier a GTE with the R154 or a GE with R154. You've already saved some weight by switching motors. Now let's shave some weight of the GE, get rid of the exhaust manifold for a header. Replacing the stock air intake system with a CAI or SRI. You mentioned acceleration. Replace the flywheel with a lighten flywheel and the clutch assembly with a stage 2 clutch assembly. Weight problem partially solved and the acceleration problem taken care of.


Theoretically we could build a N/A 200RWHP with minor machine work and a few mods. Things are only impossible after you given up trying. And when it comes to HP it's not how much money you've spent but how well you've spent your money. I'm off to work.

Peace and engine grease

 

[Tanya]

EDIT: Okay, it's not worthless, but it's not completely accurate or reliable.

Are you smoking dope? It's a fuck of a lot more accurate than a GTECH or guessing with your butt dyno. Come on now.

Trick is to go to the same dyno, which really isn't that hard. There really isn't a lot of deviation there. You also have to remember other conditions change also, temperature, humidity, etc which all have a bearing on the hp you make. Most dynos record this information so you can gather what you want from it.

 

[Ma70.Ent]

There are 1-2 good dynos, and here is one of them:

here is a link to one.
http://whyturbothat.com/na7mgedyno.html
87 supra 7mge. 162 whp. the guy says it had intake and exhaust and it smoked when it ran. He also states that his friends car put down 169 hp at the wheels.
someone make this a sticky?
so anyone else who has dynoed a NA 7m, put your numbers and mods here I guess.

WHP:
Mods:
Year motor:

That was posted in another OLD topic, by the way. I don't think he needed a reason to fake this, but yeah, be skeptical if you guys need to be

 

[CRE]

Are you smoking dope?

Nope and my drinking only really ever amounts to perhaps a beer every month or two.

Now that we've gotten my toxicological background out of the way, I didn't say I thought the GTech was any better, I agree that it's far less reliable. I was making the point that people posting their dyno results online and other people comparing theirs with them is hardly accurate. That's all. I agree it's the better of the two. But realistically and where accuracy is concerned, it's one of those things that's really only good for showing you and others the potential scope of change a given modification or adjustment can make. They all measure differently and calculate differently and (more often than not) report very different results.

So using someone's before and after #s when doing research is alright, but looking at someone else's dyno results and expecting that the same mods will gain you the same gains when you dyno is hopeful at best. If we were all running on the same physical unit it would be another story, but we're not, we're not even all running on the same make of dyno, no one is posting the software revision, all the correction factors, the ambient temp and humidity... bla, bla, bla.

You seemed too have missed my point concerning this topic, hopefully this clears it up.

 

[Tanya]

MY point is, where dynoing is concerned and comparisions are made, common sense has to be used. There are several types of dynos; Mustang Dynos, Dynojet Dynos, etc and they do read very differently. There are conversion factors for them though. Also people have to realize that a beat to hell 7MGE with I/H/E mods isn't going to read as well as a freshly rebuilt 7MGE with the same mods. Common sense. If people can't use it, they shouldn't be into this hobby in the first place.

 

[CRE]

MY point is, where dynoing is concerned and comparisions are made, common sense has to be used. There are several types of dynos; Mustang Dynos, Dynojet Dynos, etc and they do read very differently. There are conversion factors for them though. Also people have to realize that a beat to hell 7MGE with I/H/E mods isn't going to read as well as a freshly rebuilt 7MGE with the same mods. Common sense. If people can't use it, they shouldn't be into this hobby in the first place.

I agree, I just operate under the assumption that people aren't going to use common sense... something demonstrated all too often. I wasn't trying to say you were wrong, but merely clarify what I thought needed to be for all those special someones. :naughty:

Which is heavier a GTE with the R154 or a GE with R154.

Let's play this another way... which is lighter? GE + W58 or GE + R154

Replacing the stock air intake system with a CAI or SRI. You mentioned acceleration.

The stock airbox IS a cold air intake... have a close look. It's not terribly restrictive either. The only thing that kills the stock airbox ir using cheap, poorly flowing filters in it.

Now the VAF, that's another story...

Replace the flywheel with a lighten flywheel and the clutch assembly with a stage 2 clutch assembly.

Lightweight flywheel will help reduce losses, doesn't actually make any more power but helps you see that a little more actually make it to the wheels.

Is a stage 2 clutch really any lighter? If not don't bother, You haven't done a thing yet to actually make more power... the stocker will work just fine.

Theoretically we could build a N/A 200RWHP with minor machine work and a few mods. Things are only impossible after you given up trying. And when it comes to HP it's not how much money you've spent but how well you've spent your money. I'm off to work.

Peace and engine grease

A couple other helpful things are: lighter wheels, one piece driveshaft, new gear oil in the transmission and diff., maintain proper tire pressure, get an alignment (even if it "feels fine"), replace the forward undercoverS (there are 3).

If you want to go overboard: new wheel bearings, check brake pad clearances when they're free, check the clearances of the parking brake pads when free.

Then, I'd probably start the mods with deleting the VAF... I hate that thing.

 

[Tanya]

Geez. If a 2.8 liter 5MGE can hit 189rwhp, then the 7M should have no problem. If you're really dedicated to building a strong n/a 7M start off with rebuilding it first and going from there. That's the best 'mod' you can do for it.

Hopefully in the coming months, I'll show you newbs how it's done

 

[ValgeKotkas]

^ Word. After the build, my car's like a different animal. Okai, it got ported head, but still.

 

[Ma70.Ent]

Rebuilds are a good idea. Maybe I should add that to the FAQ.