2 Questions - Exhaust System and Spark plugs

[IJ.]

Dave: Notice the ""

 

[supradjza80]

They last fucking forever though on an engine that is out of tune. My old toyota truck would go through plugs pretty bad because it was one of those nasty carbs with a million vaccum lines and ran rich as hell (enough to melt the cat). The +4's lasted years :rofl:

One strap would get worn, it would go the the next closest, ect...

Yeah that is what i thought they would do. I never really thought of the multiple straps as a performance enhancer but basically just to add life to the plug. I think the double tipped platinum's (like the OEM plugs on the 7M) probably last about the same amount of time.

IJ: I'm not quick enough to catch those winking smiles

 

[Grandavi]

I have been reading all of this and waiting for someone to say... "this is the best plug bar none..."

However... I dont think there is one "best" plug. It all depends on how you drive and what the motor is set up like. I think for my 7MGTE with just basically an upgraded intake, 3" exhaust and stock boost, the NGK's will do what I need. However, now I am a touch confused on if I should go copper or platinum. Iridium is out unless I go with it on my next change of spark plugs... but this time, I am thinking of just going with either platinum or copper..


Now.. I have to go backwards in this thread to decide which ones i go with.. and I dont think the heat range is going to matter with my setup either. Just the recommended plugs (the ones that you find in the manual) are probably sufficient and no real gains (other than perhaps less maintenance) are gonna be seen if I go with any "enhanced" solution such as Iridium.

Now... the sparkplugs are gonna be an easy choice with reading... but is there any reason why NOT to get Magnecor KV85 Spark Plug Wires for the car (besides cost perhaps.. 130.00 I think) Thats what I plan to get... as mine are oil soaked due to the MKIII issue with oil in the sparkplug galley.

Edited to add....
Okay.. reread the spark plug discussion... gonna go with NGK Coppers.. should be able to grab em from the NAPA dealer in town.


Bah... you think it would be an easy thing.. lol. I found "Spark Plug, Standard Series, Copper Core, Gap 0.043, BCPR5ES-11" at an online store (trying to source a part number... ) and they are more expensive then Iridiums.. lol.
Anyone have a Number that they would recommend? NGK site doesn't show any copper cores... (unless the "nameless" one's are coppers...)

 

[Poodles]

People HAVE had misfire issues with aftermarket "upgrade" plug wires, but it's hit or miss. Like I said I went with the stockers because they where the same price as the NGK replacements but came with the wire looms and the caps that hold the wires on the coils (without the looms it's cramped as hell).

 

[Grandavi]

People HAVE had misfire issues with aftermarket "upgrade" plug wires, but it's hit or miss. Like I said I went with the stockers because they where the same price as the NGK replacements but came with the wire looms and the caps that hold the wires on the coils (without the looms it's cramped as hell).

Okay.. this is a tricky one.. because the wires I am considering ordering are supposed to be an enhancement... I just thought that the wirelooms and caps came with it. (good thing I asked here first.. lol) Another item that I may be smarter just replacing with stock as the enhancement wont be noticeable with the level of upgrade being done on the vehicle....

 

[dumbo]

hmm i got the msd 8.5mm wires, haven't run the car yet, in the middle of the na-t, hope there allright. i put irridiums in too:aigo: i'm gonna be running stock boost but at higher compression i hope they dont "glow" maybe i'll change them to copper, wish i read this sooner.

 

[jdub]

On a motor with moderate mods, the iridiums will be fine.

BTW - MSD wires don't play well with the shorter Autolite 3923 plugs...I know this for a fact

 

[dumbo]

On a motor with moderate mods, the iridiums will be fine.

BTW - MSD wires don't play well with the shorter Autolite 3923 plugs...I know this for a fact

allright i'll stay away from the autolite plugs,

i dunno what to consider moderate.
i prolly should of just got it running stock for my conversion but i jumped into it...i always do.
got walboro255, 550 rc's, 57trim ct-26, 3inch down pipe with divorce wastegate, maft-pro, ets intercooler kit, remote filter head, b&m cooler, oil thermostat, no cat just a resonator, and 2 3/4 exaust.

ohh and all gte electronics of course

 

[jdub]

I'll call that mod list "moderate".

 

[dumbo]

I'll call that mod list "moderate".

well now i'm worried about the plugs haha but there allready in so i cant return em, i'll prolly run em, and hopefully not regret it. but i'll keep the boost stock. now if my damn turbo oil kit will show up

thanks

 

[lewis15498]

Regarding your exhaust the factory manifold is fine for the ct26. Upgrade everything else, your goal is to maximize the pressure differential before and after the turbo, by minimizing backpressure. As for downpipe/elbow you can purchase upgrades separately or get a divorced downpipe. I dont reccomend the divorced downpipe b/c u have to pipe the wastegate pipe back into your exhaust system. I reccomend a ebay elbow, with an hks 3" downpipe. The fitment is superb. Ditch the cat if your dont need it legally its not helping you at all. Don't hollow it out as this will create turbulence in your exhaust system ultimately resulting in backpressure. Replace it with a test pipe, an ebay unit is fine. All catbacks come with mufflers and quality units will be fairly civil sounding. I reccomend any system from Greddy, HKS, Apex-i or tanabe, however, many people are perfectly satisfied with cheaper brand names such as megan racing. I use a HKS turbo system and it sounds and performs great, comes with 3" piping, they also offer the Dragger system for your car which has 3 1/2 inch piping and will be slightly louder.
As for your plugs platinum is fine however you will most likely get better performance from irridium plugs. I read this in Import tuners Fact or Fiction section. Here is the the link to the article explaining the differences and tessing copper platinum and irridium plugs and proving irridium is better.
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp_0805_sparkplug_performance_increase_fact_or_fiction/index.html
spend the extra bucks for irridium.

 

[Grandavi]

And again... the answer is not complete. Yes, Iridium are better overall (spec wise) but there is the question of long term usage causing difficulty as stated in earlier posts here. I really like the idea of using Iridiums, but am wary because I am not the "bleeding edge" type guy some are. If I am risking cylinder damage at ... say 1%.. thats acceptable... 25% is not. I haven't really found anything that deals with that other than to trust what the users here say. I got a couple well respected posters warning us and a couple well respected users saying "go for it". But nowhere on the net have I found any negative about the Iridiums other than they are fragile.

So.. for spark plugs.. do I risk it and go for the optimum? Or do I play it safe and go with coppers?

I think at this point, I am going to stay with the coppers just because I have only owned the car for a bit over a month and already am having little things pop up that I have to deal with. Maybe when I get the car to where I would like it, I may try the iridiums. The good part about engine trouble is it forces you to repair it.. so I get to know the car from the bottom up. The bad part is it forces me to repair it. Repairing my car aint driving it..

As for the exhaust, I have already decided I will go with the 3 " exhaust mentioned at the outset (but havent sourced it yet as there a couple people in town I want to visit first that deal with that, so its a next week project) and I have decided on a downpipe, but the one with the wastegate reintegrated. (which upgradeds the turbo elbow at the same time.

Now.. another issue pops up... do I want or need to upgrade the BOV?
(bearing in mind.. stock turbo... no intake upgrades ... in fact.. only upgrade so far is the K&N filter which I am unimpressed at the fact I have to oil the damn thing)

 

[IJ.]

In NGK's "5" is going to be too hot for a Turbo car (NGK are backwards) you'll need a "6" and if you're going to up the boost or drive it hard a "7".

As for the IR question unless you're running it at the extreme end of the spectrum go for it but Platinums will be as good for less $.

 

[jdub]

Now.. another issue pops up... do I want or need to upgrade the BOV?

(bearing in mind.. stock turbo... no intake upgrades ... in fact.. only upgrade so far is the K&N filter which I am unimpressed at the fact I have to oil the damn thing)

For a basically stock motor the Bosch 110 BOV is a tried and true choice...it works well.

Dump the K&N and get an AEM Dryflow...no more oil to foul your AFM and it filters far better than the K&N

As for your plugs platinum is fine however you will most likely get better performance from irridium plugs. I read this in Import tuners Fact or Fiction section. Here is the the link to the article explaining the differences and tessing copper platinum and irridium plugs and proving irridium is better.
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp_0805_sparkplug_performance_increase_fact_or_fiction/index.html
spend the extra bucks for irridium.

I'm going to take exception to this...that article was about increasing HP due to spark plugs. Copper, Platinum, and Iridium were tested on a B18B Honda engine (this should tell you something)...the iridiums gained 2.9 HP over copper; platinum gained 0.8 HP over copper.

This was the standard BS "proving" a theory on a dyno...hate to tell you, but you could change nada, zilch, zip and get different results on exactly the same motor (no changes) from run to run. A 2.9 HP increase is well within the margin of error on a dyno. Differences in OAT will produce different results depending on the time of day you do the test...morning = cooler air = more HP.

"Proves iridiums are better"...no way. This article doesn't prove squat.
Longevity wise on a stock motor, the iridiums will work well. Like IJ said though, platinum's will be almost as good and are cheaper.

 

[lewis15498]

This was the standard BS "proving" a theory on a dyno...hate to tell you, but you could change nada, zilch, zip and get different results on exactly the same motor (no changes) from run to run. A 2.9 HP increase is well within the margin of error on a dyno. Differences in OAT will produce different results depending on the time of day you do the test...morning = cooler air = more HP.

JDUB you are right. There is a good chance the "upgrade" to irridium plugs could gain you nothing. I reccomend the irridium plugs because i run NGK irridium plugs and have no issues w/ them. The article I included is just something that I found interesting and also aided me when I decided to go with the irridiums. Although Import tuner is usually pretty good at controling variables such as air temperature change and make note of any changes in the article (which they didnt) It was incorrect of me to use the word "proves" in that situation. It is nieve to believe one series of tests proves anything in all situations, it only creates evidence supporting one side of the arguement. I was merely offering my opinion and delivering an article that supported it.

 

[lewis15498]

Now.. another issue pops up... do I want or need to upgrade the BOV?
(bearing in mind.. stock turbo... no intake upgrades ... in fact.. only upgrade so far is the K&N filter which I am unimpressed at the fact I have to oil the damn thing)

If you plan to stay stock the Bosch 110 is prolly your best choice. However if you plan to upgrade in the future, unless your experiencing compressor surge you may want to hold off until you get a hardpipe kit and aftermarket BOV. Check out the Synapse unit, its what I plan to go with. http://www.synapseengineering.com/

 

[jdub]

JDUB you are right. There is a good chance the "upgrade" to irridium plugs could gain you nothing. I reccomend the irridium plugs because i run NGK irridium plugs and have no issues w/ them. The article I included is just something that I found interesting and also aided me when I decided to go with the irridiums. Although Import tuner is usually pretty good at controling variables such as air temperature change and make note of any changes in the article (which they didnt) It was incorrect of me to use the word "proves" in that situation. It is nieve to believe one series of tests proves anything in all situations, it only creates evidence supporting one side of the arguement. I was merely offering my opinion and delivering an article that supported it.

Good to hear and sorry about coming off harsh. You happened to hit a pet peeve...I've had guys try to tell me this brand of oil will increase your HP. And guess what? They used a dyno to "prove" it.
A dyno is a tuning tool...using it to "prove" this or that can be very misleading...a misuse of that tool.

For the record, iridium plugs are fine to use, but like most things in any engine, they do not cover all situations. You can't make the statement that "iridiums are the best!"...it depends on what your motor is going to require. That's what I was pointing out earlier in this thread...nothing more.

 

[lewis15498]

O yeah, Grandavi, if you need a BOV and want a Factory unit, I have an extra one.

 

[Grandavi]

O yeah, Grandavi, if you need a BOV and want a Factory unit, I have an extra one.

Thanks, but first I have to figure out something. Probably easy if I map it out in steps because I may need a better than OEM BOV...

this is my plan...
1. replace all vacuum hoses with colored silicone (cause they all look original... like 20 years old and I like colors...)

2. replace the valve cover gaskets (I believe I can recheck head bolts with covers off), put on a shiny spark plug galley cover and research a way to prevent them from filling with oil again (had to siphon off about a litre).

3. replace the plugs (NGK Coppers) and wires (undecided but leaning towards OEM for now)

4. replace any other hoses that look old or cracked (believe I have 2 leaking, one that is losing oil and one that is losing coolant.. possibly heater hose)

5. Upgrade the exhaust to 3" (entire exhaust.. but keeping stock manifold)

6. Replacing lower ball joints (this should probalby be #1 or #2).

7. Hardpiping the intercooler

8. Upgrading the Radiator

9. Putting in a Turbo-timer (probably go with a Greddy)

I think that covers it. I dont see the need for a boost controller quite yet as that is an upgrade for later when I'm done small body repairs. Eventually I would like to do some work with the Oil system (reading a lot of posts in these forums right now with very very good info and plans), upgrade the Fuel system (larger injectors and whatever else I run into at that time), possibly upgrading the turbo.

All of this comes with a price tag naturally and my wife was reading over my shoulder and nixed the 3" exhaust until mid November. (at least she allows me to plan.. lol) She is finally starting to like the car too! Good feeling when you get pressed into the seat a bit on the highway

So... the BOV would probably come at the same time as the 3" exhaust, so if you still have in mid Nov., then we can talk. I have paypal and can do the payments that way if needed. I am also fully willing to pick up extra parts the forum guys have laying around that I need, as long as they are new part (ie. not used and then upgraded) I plan to put about 7,000 - 14,000 into this car over 3 years, I just want the car running optimal to begin with as thats what the whole "Supra-love" thing is about. A great car performing madly!


If I havent said this... thank you all very much for the "expert" information. I came into this car with only the knowledge that it was fun to drive and haven't rebuilt an engine in over 20 years... so its a huge huge help to be able to consult with people who know and dont mind helping!

 

[Grandavi]

On a second note... does buying from forum related dealers help out the forums at all? Or is it just an informational thing.. like... "you can get them from here!"

Just looking at helping the forums stay alive (as this may be a lot of volunteer work directly and indirectly, but there is a price tag to having a website)