2 Questions - Exhaust System and Spark plugs

Grandavi

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Sep 25, 2008
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grimreaper;1146184 said:
^ there is a reason, some of the crowd like to do their own thing, (not particualry bad or good) some like to follow and let others make mistakes. Some help set those limits most of us follow and some ignore them completly. It comes down to the owner, do you have $$$ to spare to play with different settings and tunes and plugs at higher then stock boost? Do you mind rebuilding everytime you make a mistake and a ring breaks or piston explodes? Lessons have been learned on the 7m, and Listening is cheaper :)

Supradj not aiming this at you.

Its why I ask first.. :1zhelp:
 

Poodles

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Jul 22, 2006
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grimreaper;1146184 said:
^ there is a reason, some of the crowd like to do their own thing, (not particualry bad or good) some like to follow and let others make mistakes. Some help set those limits most of us follow and some ignore them completly. It comes down to the owner, do you have $$$ to spare to play with different settings and tunes and plugs at higher then stock boost? Do you mind rebuilding everytime you make a mistake and a ring breaks or piston explodes? Lessons have been learned on the 7m, and Listening is cheaper :)

Supradj not aiming this at you.

IJ did, that's why anytime he speaks you should usually listen.

On the OP's notes...

1) I dunno where this got started, but the torque from our cars come from the TURBO. After my full exhaust was installed it spooled much earlier and torque is much lower in the powerband (I can shift a 2K RPM and I'm still accelerating faster than most other people). Personally I like the dual tip look of my exhaust, but it's personal preferance (Raptor Racing).

2) This is my personal opinion, so don't take it as a flame, but put a cat on the car. It will be louder without one. The performance gain over a testpipe is minimal. It doesn't pollute as much and you don't piss off drivers behind you. In my book there are only two reasons people run a testpipe: too cheap to buy a good cat, or are running leaded gasoline.

3) A downpipe/elbow combo just adds another joint, go with a downpipe with integrated elbow. Looks like you settled on a DDP, but I have one and if I could do it again I'd get a recirculated one because it WILL leak a bit all the time. Raptor Racing also makes a very nice one that's ceramic coated...

4) If you want any power out of the car, you need to replace the DP/elbow.

5) Stock manifold is fine.

I run OEM Denso spark plugs because I got them from the dealer for cheaper than NGK platinums. I also run OEM wires since the NGK wires where the same price but didn't come with the wire looms and the OEM wires are very well made.

I've run coppers, never noticed any difference in power or smoother idle, but they wear quicker and I don't like doing spark plugs...

On a side note, you'll probably have the boost go up after doing the exhaust, so make sure you have the headgasket is taken care of, and you might develop boost leaks from the increased pressure as well...
 

Grandavi

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Sep 25, 2008
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Poodles;1146202 said:
IJ did, that's why anytime he speaks you should usually listen.

On the OP's notes...

1) I dunno where this got started, but the torque from our cars come from the TURBO. After my full exhaust was installed it spooled much earlier and torque is much lower in the powerband (I can shift a 2K RPM and I'm still accelerating faster than most other people). Personally I like the dual tip look of my exhaust, but it's personal preferance (Raptor Racing).

Yeah, dual tip looks cool, but I think i will stick with the single as it isnt really important to me. I will look at Raptor Racing though as I do my purchasing, just to see the alternatives.

2) This is my personal opinion, so don't take it as a flame, but put a cat on the car. It will be louder without one. The performance gain over a testpipe is minimal. It doesn't pollute as much and you don't piss off drivers behind you. In my book there are only two reasons people run a testpipe: too cheap to buy a good cat, or are running leaded gasoline.

Haven't sourced a testpipe yet, but I'm not sure about the pollution part. There are a couple schools of thought on that...
There are 2 reasons why I would consider dropping the cat... increased performance because of a removed "bottleneck" and one less maintenance issue. I am not a catalyst expert, but have heard arguments about cleaning air, but causing increased fuel consumption (maybe thats not true anymore with better designed cats) and the elements needed to make a catalytic converter are more environmentally damaging then what they clean. Im open to both putting an upgraded Cat on (like the Magnacat) or testpipe. I like decreasing my environmental footprint where possible if I'm sure that's what I am doing.

3) A downpipe/elbow combo just adds another joint, go with a downpipe with integrated elbow. Looks like you settled on a DDP, but I have one and if I could do it again I'd get a recirculated one because it WILL leak a bit all the time. Raptor Racing also makes a very nice one that's ceramic coated...

4) If you want any power out of the car, you need to replace the DP/elbow.

I think I am going with integrated downpipe/elbow.. just because I like the exhaust behind the car, not in front... (simply that reason.. :) )

I run OEM Denso spark plugs because I got them from the dealer for cheaper than NGK platinums. I also run OEM wires since the NGK wires where the same price but didn't come with the wire looms and the OEM wires are very well made.

I've run coppers, never noticed any difference in power or smoother idle, but they wear quicker and I don't like doing spark plugs...

On a side note, you'll probably have the boost go up after doing the exhaust, so make sure you have the headgasket is taken care of, and you might develop boost leaks from the increased pressure as well...

I am pretty sure I am just gonna go with the NGK's for now and see what happens. With my minimal setup, I doubt there is enough difference between performance and what I would have to pay for irridium vs NGK to make it worthwhile. Of course.. My next plug change may be different.

As for the headgasket, I am not having any trouble and the engine has 24,000 km on it (13k miles) since rebuild. All I know is its not an OEM headgasket (and also not a MHG). If it becomes a problem later, then I will look at pulling the engine and tranny out completely and either doing a full rebuild/upgrade (including turbo) or JZTME swap... (Apparently if you want performance, you ultimately go with the swap...)

But, for now, I just want to get the car in tip-top shape and enjoy it. I could spend 15,000.00 on it upgrading and still not touch the price of a new bleh car...(which I have done and not enjoyed...lol)

Oh.. an FYI... my winter beater is a 1988 Cresseda.. so no.. this wont see Calgary roads in winter :D
 

supradjza80

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after reading on supraforums for a while I have found a few people running 61-67 singles on Mk4's with over 25lbs of boost with no problems with the iridiums (including Road Racers) which in my opinion is way more likely to cause "glow plug" then most people with a 7m.

I know IJ just got some platinum plugs and liked them (dyno testing), I think maybe his first incident was caused by more than just a glow plug from iridium. anyway for what its worth I will be getting a Downpipe with integrated elbow very soon, and installing it on the car along with the straight pipe exhaust and raising boost to around 13-14 psi. i will let everyone know how the plugs (denso IQ-20's) perform at that level.

From what i have read the majority of the supra crowd (mk3 and mk4) love copper plugs. Maybe they like changing spark plugs a lot or maybe they know something that a few others and myself have yet to figure out. Personally I am willing to take the risk with iridiums since I have read and determined (from both NGK and Denso's websites) that their Iridium plugs are superior to both their platinum and copper plugs.

What I would need to change my mind is solid evidence of people having major engine problems due to this type of spark plug. I have yet to really find much of anything.
 

supradjza80

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Grandavi;1146178 said:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79192&highlight=Sparkplugs

This thread discusses it... good read but not much info other than.. I think most Supra owners are sold on NGK's.

Not really sure what this thread gets at...I guess champions suck (which I agree with from personal experience with boats and snowmobiles) but not much info on what type of electrode is better then the other which is what we are after.

Search SF for Iriduim, what you find may surprise you. What I found was a few people praising how good the iridiums are instead of the anti-special metal posts I seem to see most places.

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302917&highlight=iridium+spark+plugs
 
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jdub

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You realize the second you said "SupraForums", the "facts" lost all credibility ;)

Just because someone does this or does that does not make it right. 90% of the posters on SF can't find their ass with both hands.

IJ's experience is about as solid as it gets...that is unless you're calling BS on him ;)
 

supradjza80

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jdub;1146600 said:
You realize the second you said "SupraForums", the "facts" lost all credibility ;)

Just because someone does this or does that does not make it right. 90% of the posters on SF can't find their ass with both hands.

IJ's experience is about as solid as it gets...that is unless you're calling BS on him ;)

You may be right about supraforums in terms of MK3 knowledge but I believe there is some great MK4 knowledge on that site.

Not calling BS just wanting to hear more info from people with problems, thats all.
 

jdub

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Tell you what...you obviously have your opinion. Even if I showed you a torched piston, I doubt it would change.
Run the iridiums (you are going to anyway).
 

Poodles

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You do realize that the info you posted from the spark plug makers is going to be biased as hell, right? They're in business to sell plugs.

It's like the Bosche Platinum +4's. They say they're great, they don't foul as easily, but they also aren't at an optimum gap and run for shit...

Do you run Lucas in your car too? If you do I got some land in Montana with an ocean view...
 

IJ.

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Mine was an extreme case guys.

30 psi 8500 for sustained periods.

It "could" have been solved with a colder plug but as the car is used in traffic as well that wasn't really an option as it would foul around town off boost.

Reduced rpm/boost these days and the 7 range NGK PLats are giving great results.
 

supradjza80

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haha, you guys are funny. I obviously understand marketing bull shit. just because somebody says this glow plug situation has happened to one person does not make me change my opinion on the product. Multiple situations of the problem would change my mind and I would then change the plugs in my car.

Plenty of people turn the boost up too high for their tune/fuel/engine and blow their engine...sometimes its easier to blame a spark plug etc. instead of yourself (there are many causes for a torched piston). I know IJ is not doing this but he did not chime into the thread until 10 minutes ago so as I was trying to say we did not really know the full extent of the situation.

Again IJ is one data point so I wanted to get more information about it. NGK and Denso make great products, in my experience, so I tend to believe a lot of what their website states about their product. I consider NGK and Denso to be a company like Castrol ( I use GC Castrol oil, maybe that is all hype too...), not like Lucas.

I am very interested in the property in montana, PM the details...

tootles
 
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supradjza80

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Poodles;1146762 said:
It's like the Bosche Platinum +4's. They say they're great, they don't foul as easily, but they also aren't at an optimum gap and run for shit...

I have never understood what the multiple ground straps are for. The spark can only go between one strap at a time anyway...
 

IJ.

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supradjza80;1146795 said:
I have never understood what the multiple ground straps are for. The spark can only go between one strap at a time anyway...

Guess they figure there's no need to index the plugs with multiple paths the spark can be blown towards ;)
 

supradjza80

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IJ.;1146829 said:
Guess they figure there's no need to index the plugs with multiple paths the spark can be blown towards ;)

I suppose that makes some sense...probably not really needed. As I understand it the spark will just go to the strap that has the least resistance (individual gap, metallurgy(very small differences) and wear determine this). I think the multiple straps are really their to help extend plug life but I am no expert.

Do people index their plugs on 7M's any way? I have never read anything about that so I don't know when/where it is beneficial. I would think if the cylinder/combustion chamber is properly designed it is not too critical.
 

Poodles

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They last fucking forever though on an engine that is out of tune. My old toyota truck would go through plugs pretty bad because it was one of those nasty carbs with a million vaccum lines and ran rich as hell (enough to melt the cat). The +4's lasted years :rofl:

One strap would get worn, it would go the the next closest, ect...