no..never been in the military, but I have been around military personnel all my life. I'm just a gun nut.
your thoughs on the M16
- Thread starter CFSapper
- Start date
man it sure sounds like you guys like your m16s.. me and my buddies have all had problems with it. when we fired rifles in basic it was like fire fire fire jam "ok its an old rifle". but when i got to my unit it was like. fire fire fire jam with fairly new rifles. i used to be a fan of the m16 until i actually used one. i think the internals are a little too precise to be used as a battle rifle. and why does it shit in itself? i mean.. it defacates where it feeds from and fouls itself up. i see it as basically an assault rifle in the most absolute term. and 5.56? why is the Army trying to buy back all the m14s they sold off? because current stockpiles have been exhausted and there are many units that would rather issue the m14. a lot of soldiers complain that the stopping power of the m16 is weak. high velocity small caliber at close range out of a 20" barrel? my friends that have been in the shit say the 5.56 will fly straight through a skinny insurgents gut requiring multiple shots to drop a target. sure its accurate and great for ranged firefights but when youre going heads up room to room house to house against hajis with full auto aks spraying everywhere.. pull out the 249s and 240bs and leave the m16s at home.
"the best way to make the m16 better is to take the sights off and put a new rifle under them".
sorry if it doesnt make sense.. kinda had to rant..
"the best way to make the m16 better is to take the sights off and put a new rifle under them".
sorry if it doesnt make sense.. kinda had to rant..
M-16 is old now. new tech is out there and it should be replaced. we are not fighting wars still in Phatom Jets or Flying H1UE helli's any more.
The Tommy Gun was great in it's time and was a real Man stopper. but it had it's due time and i think the M-16 has had it's
The Tommy Gun was great in it's time and was a real Man stopper. but it had it's due time and i think the M-16 has had it's
Puppy eater, my best friends brother is a marine sergeant and he agrees with you fully. I have never been in battle, but he has and I am sure a lot of people you know have, and there is no better place to get advice on weapons than from people who use them in combat...just my 2 cents
Jon
Jon
Puppy Eater said:
LOL, lots of mis information you have. What is your MOS? If your rifle is jamming, maybe you should try some basic preventive maintainance. I've carried an M16 since 1988, and not once has my rifle, or any of the soldiers below me for that matter, ever jammed. Never. Why, because we always maintained our weapons.
Remember the transportation platoon that got ambushed at the begining of DSII? The on that the female, Pvt Lynch, was in? Do you know why they got jacked up? Because their bolts were rusted into the chamber & they couldn't return fire. On top of that, they didn't even know that their weapons were in that poor of condition, they never even cycled their weapons. Is that a flaw in design? Hardly.
I also chuckled when you say it takes multiple rounds to drop a person. Pardon me, but horse shit. One shot from a 5.56 to the torso will, at a minimum, put even the toughest man down.
Also, you're claiming that a M249 is better in a MOUT environment is better? You obviously aren't in the infantry. Every infantry unit I've ever been in has crossed loaded weapons. The support teams get the M249's and the M240's while the entry teams get nothing but M16's / M4's. They do this because the excess weight & bulk of belt feed weapons absolutely sucks trying to swing around into corners. Also, It's TRADOC doctrine, I believe.
As a matter of fact, the Special Forces designed the M4 simply to standardize their weaponry. They found that carrying the M14 along with the M16 was too much of a logistical nightmare, so they decided to go with the M4. Such a crappy design the SF stuck with it? I think not.
Last edited:
Puppy Eater said:
LOL. I suppose you could look at it from both ways.
Although...Lately, after boosting a little more than normal, I've noticed red bumps on my neck and late at night, this purple kangaroo with red Nike's comes into my room and laughs at me and then leaves...Still haven't figured what that's about. :icon_conf
I have never jammed, misfired, double feed, or any other problem. Like cars, the operator is the problem.
Retail is high from market prices. The actual price is much much lower.
bobiseverywhere said:
I'll put my CAR-15 up against any rifle made today and I'm sure I'll come out on top 98% of the time. The concept is simple: be able to put a small projectile within a small area located a point as far away as the eye can see. It's kind of like reinventing the wheel, round is round.
of couse tha Thomson was a man stopper it used the .45
.45 plus full auto means ouch for the guy you hit
*if you can hit him*
.45 plus full auto means ouch for the guy you hit
*if you can hit him*
bobiseverywhere said:
so puppy is suggesting going to an even older design in the M14?
Don't get me wrong, I love both guns and 30 cals....the 5.56 is growing on me.
If you hit someone in a vital area, the person is going down, regardless of caliber. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.....
I would take getting hit with .45acp a million times before getting hit with 5.56.
rifle > pistol
Sure my basic training M-16 jammed. But that was an old ass POS, and was almost certainly magazine related. But my IRL deployed M-16 never jammed, and that was in the desert. My IRL personal AR-15 has never jammed.
rifle > pistol
Sure my basic training M-16 jammed. But that was an old ass POS, and was almost certainly magazine related. But my IRL deployed M-16 never jammed, and that was in the desert. My IRL personal AR-15 has never jammed.
well some units are re-issuing the M14 simply because the soldiers are requesting them. i agree with you though on shot placement though but how accurate can you be when a haj is spraying down a hallway with only his hand exposed? sure the M4 rifles have auto but 5.56 goes right through soft tissue at close range as opposed to the tumbling effect its supposed to have at intermediate ranges. and jamming? cmon now.. try puttin a couple of mags through it in sand and mud and rain. i think they are a little too finicky to be left out or uncleaned for any amount of time. the idea is great: small highly accurate high velocity projectiles. im not tryin to rag on the civvy model but the military version could be better.... a LOT better.. :dunno:
hell.. even the insurgents are more afraid of the 9 than the m16....
cant really argue with them..
hell.. even the insurgents are more afraid of the 9 than the m16....
cant really argue with them..
What units are reissuing the M14? Specificaly? You never answered the Q as to your MOS...
Tumbling is a function of velocity. As in the higher the velocity the more likely it is to tumble once entering flesh. That means the closer, the more likely it is to fragment.
I would realy like to know what unit you are with and where you are getting your info from, because it goes contrary to everything I have experienced while deployed and everything I have ever heard of from other deployed people... Actualy, I'll be the first to do it. But I'm raising the BS flag. Sorry, but No one anywhere is more affraid of 9mm than ANY rifle chambering...
Tumbling is a function of velocity. As in the higher the velocity the more likely it is to tumble once entering flesh. That means the closer, the more likely it is to fragment.
I would realy like to know what unit you are with and where you are getting your info from, because it goes contrary to everything I have experienced while deployed and everything I have ever heard of from other deployed people... Actualy, I'll be the first to do it. But I'm raising the BS flag. Sorry, but No one anywhere is more affraid of 9mm than ANY rifle chambering...
Last edited:
rakkasan said:This is the only weapon I would choose over the M4......
That looks just like the ROK's K-1 carbine that I have fired (Team Spirit) Almost everything about it, is M-16, except the outward appearance. The M-16 might be getting long in the tooth (old)...but it still is an accurate, and very venerable weapon. I've shot expert, with them many times, and never really had any jamming or mis-fire issues. I've fired the AK also. Nice little weapon, but I wouldn't trade an M-16 for one!:nono:
outofstep said:
+1. Like you said, no one would take a pistol round over a rifle round....
Rakkasan - at least someone (the Israelis) did something good with the AK chassis when they made the Galil.....
Puppyeater - as for the m16/ar 'crapping where it feeds', if you go back to page one outofstep mentioned that there are gas piston uppers made to alleviate that issue. the link is here:http://pof-usa.com/