Which oil do YOU use??

[bountykilla0118]

You guys that like 15W-50...here's what you need to do:
- Put a bottle in your frig and get it cooled off to 40-45 deg
- Pour some out in a small pan
- Note how well it flows (or lack thereof)
- That's what your oil pump is trying to get to your pistions and valves.

Basically you're increasing the wear on your motor...on each cold start. Now try the same thing with a 0W-30 or 5W-30...bet it flows better

The highest weight oil I would ever run is a 10W-40 and that on a high milage motor. You want the oil to flow so it can do it's job. The second number is the visc of the oil at temperature...30W is plenty for a fresh 7M motor. if you want to decrease the wear on your new engine, 0 to 10W-30 (depending on climate) is what you want.

Thats why our toyota handbooks says you should choose your oil depending on the temperature range before your next oil change ..... They even go the point to make it obivious that 20w-50 is for temps higher than 80 or so. Since 10w, 15w, 20w can be looked at as the ability to flow when cold. How bout testing the flow once they are in the oven at 80 and see if there is much of a difference

 

[bountykilla0118]

I think its funny how so many people knock 20w-50 in summer time usage ...... I guess most of those who dont like 20w-50 have used it and ended up with a rodknock the momment they changed to 20w-50 or they are have better knowledge than the people at toyota who wrote and design the 7m oil-ing system. I doubt it ..... but if you are one of those people please stand up and educate everyone with your knowledge beside "oohhh i think its to thick" well IIRC at one time some very educated people thought the world was FLAT. So much for what you think show us what you personally know. I have been running 20w50 without any problems and i run 10w30 in the winter.

 

[jdub]

You obviously don't know me very well

Read this:
http://63.240.161.99/motoroil/

And this:
http://www.mkiiitech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=898

This too...make sure you read the links:
http://www.mkiiitech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=890

Since 10w, 15w, 20w can be looked at as the ability to flow when cold. How bout testing the flow once they are in the oven at 80 and see if there is much of a difference

The problem is getting the oil to the 100 deg C they are designed to run at. Like I said, it's the start-up that causes the problem...we don't have hot oil sitting in our pans after an over night sit You run 15 or 20W-50 and you decrease the flow of oil on start-up...it's simple physics. Thick fluids require more energy to flow...since our oil pump is dependant on rpm for pressure, thicker oil does not flow well at low rpm (i.e. start-up).

Will heavy weight oil cause damage to your motor (like rod knock)...no. Will it cause more wear on a motor...yes, on start-up. Will it be more restrictive going through the filter...yes. Your call on the oil you use...it is your engine. However, educating yourself on the realities of oil and the data that is available points to using the lighter weight oils. Just because you run it and have not had a problem does not make it "better" or the best for your engine.

Using 15W-50 is not "better" for the engine...it's a myth based on hearsay that will not die...same for the myth you have to change your oil every 3000 miles. Show me a study that shows otherwise and I'll shut up.

 

[bountykilla0118]

No i dont know you very well but since you have some good info i might need to talk to u more to share ideas and argue them..... i do see what you are saying. Can you show the documentation on the level of wear between the different weights of the oil........... Other than that you are telling me what you think. Simply physics? Really again scientist once thought the world was flat and had the information to argue that. Science is not math where 2 + 2 = 4 with out a doubt. However with science we all know that this is not correct 3 + 4 = 100 but as long as I give you the steps to get that answer over and over and all the need info to support my argument then its valid but not factual. So like I said show me what you know with hard evidence. Show me some bearings and journals with the different levels of stress and wear on it caused by the 10w, 15w, 20w oils and I will shut also.::fundy::

 

[jdub]

Ok...here's a little more reading for ya. BTW, you sure did assimilate the info in the above links fast...so, here's a good number of links to engineering articles. Many of these discuss modern lubricants and how they affect moving parts:
http://www.iantaylor.org.uk/papers.htm
Warning...almost all of these prove 2 + 2 actually do equal 4...you'd be a great corporate accountant though if you can make the case proving 3 + 4 = 100

I highly suggest you read all the articles in the 1st link I posted above...Dr Haas is a very smart guy with some very high HP toys. What he says about motor oil blows most (if not all) of the "old way" of choosing motor oil out of the water.

This link is to "Bob's the Oil Guy"...more than you'll ever want to know, but you'll have to glean through the BS just as with any forum:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

Bearing wear characteristics from the above site:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/bearingwear/bearingwearanalysis.htm

An article from Shell discussing the effect of oil film thickness on wear/friction. The thing to glean from this is the impact temperature, oil pressure (hydrodynamic), and shear have on film thickness. Film thickness is what's important when lubricating moving parts. The tighter tolerance the motor, the more challenging it is to get the film thickness between the parts for good lubrication.
http://iantaylor.org.uk/papers/friction.pdf

A good article on oil in general. It also discusses the effect thicker oils have on a close tolerance engine (like the 7M) and how bearing failure can result. Also note that thicker oils will encapsulate particles better; this was important in the days when tolerances were not as precise...this is where the "thicker is better" myth came from. Also illustrates the need to use a really good filter when using thinner oils.
http://www.dezmo.com/gordononoil.html

An article from Valvoline on using thinner weight oils. Supports what I was talking about on flow and wear at start-up on a tight tolerance motor.
http://www.valvoline.com/carcare/articleviewer.asp?pg=ccr20030901ov&cccid=2&scccid=2

Another article from Shell with pertinent info on ring modeling and more to include a 5w-20 oil giving higher top ring oil film thickness than a 15w-40 they tested. Also includes how viscosity affects ring movement.
http://www.iantaylor.org.uk/papers/Additives2001.pdf

Nothing to do with wear, but interesting effect thinner weight oils have on fuel economy:
http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article000463014.cfm?x=b5JKv2G,b38lLn1r

What you will find out about oil is there is no simple answer. Wear/friction is determined by the oil used...syn vs dino, additives, viscosity, hydrodynamic pressure, etc. All I can do is lead you to the information...it's up to you to learn it. I've done quite a bit of research, mostly prompted by JetJock (he knows more about oil than I ever will)...my conclusion is a 15W-50 oil is not optimal for the 7M due to the tolerances of the engine on start.

 

[starscream5000]

^ Preach it John!

 

[bountykilla0118]

Man thats alot of reading that will take some time ..... i skimmed some of it for the most part and i failed to see where they actually tested these "theories". To show on a 7m with its tight clearances or any bearing for that matter pertaining to the difference in actual mechanical wear. Meaning there were signs of stress or actual lack of lubrication. I want to see the clearly illustrated differences between the 5w-30 all the way to 20w-50 in different temperature ranges from 32 to 100deg. and their affects on bearings, journals, valves, and anything related. Anyone can make an hypothesis better yet an educated guess about what can happen. Where are the test and results that prove that bearings are damaged even slightly on the start up in 90deg of heat with 20w-50 more than lets say 5w-30 ............

 

[jdub]

Well...I guess if tech articles from Valvoline and Shell are theories, then (to use your analogy), the world is round is still a theory as well. I've got a feeling the engineers involved in developing modern lubricants kinda know what they are doing.

The rest of the info I posted is from some very knowledgeable people; it's your choice to believe them or not...or do the research yourself to prove or disprove a 15W-50 is better for the 7M engine. I think I've backed up my contention that a thicker oil is not optimal for the Supra motor pretty well...I didn't just pull this out of the air...I really have nothing else to prove.

Ask yourself a question...why do you think 15W-50 is a good thing and what info do you base it on? And if this causes you to look at the info out there to make a choice based on facts/data...that's a good thing

 

[bountykilla0118]

I never said i liked or disliked any oil. I just think people should do like you and read and get more info before they post why you should or should not do something.... i just dont like when people jump on a bandwagon and dont have any reasons beside "ohhh some body told me do this" and dont show and prove what they are saying. Why do u drive and or modify an MKIII 7m powered car over any other car? You can be fast in many other cars but you do it b/c you like it i hope ... I like oil pressure in the summer even though pressure and flow are not the same but i just like it and so far i have not been in a situation where think differently but for the the winter i use 10w-30 b/c i know its better in the colder motors .... i guess u can say a peace of mind

 

[WeDgE]

Mobil1 5w30

 

[jdub]

I never said i liked or disliked any oil. I just think people should do like you and read and get more info before they post why you should or should not do something.... i just dont like when people jump on a bandwagon and dont have any reasons beside "ohhh some body told me do this" and dont show and prove what they are saying. Why do u drive and or modify an MKIII 7m powered car over any other car? You can be fast in many other cars but you do it b/c you like it i hope ...

You know...that's exactly the way I think :icon_bigg And it is because I really like the Mk III !
I'll question why something is done the way it is and try to figure it out...very often it's not what it seems. And thanks for the compliment

I like oil pressure in the summer even though pressure and flow are not the same but i just like it and so far i have not been in a situation where think differently but for the the winter i use 10w-30 b/c i know its better in the colder motors .... i guess u can say a peace of mind

A little more pressure is ok in the 7M, but it reaches a point where it's really serving no useful purpose. Read up on motor oil...you may change the way you look at it. I used to believe the same as you...15W-50 was good...did some reading and discovered it wasn't true.

 

[mkIIIman089]

Once fully warmed (100C) both the 30 and 50 wt showed pretty similar oil pressure. The 20W-50 I ran, got hotter under normal freeway driving then my 0W-30 does during the same ambient temps. The increase in temp made the pressures exactly the same during long trips wether it was a 30 or 50 wt.

If you take peace of mind running your oil 10-15C higher then it has to be... well so be it.

 

[mattjk]

JetJock make an excellent point that many don't think about. Dirt in the air. I call the K&N filter the Dirt Flow. If you really want your engine to last, run the factory paper filter. K&N and other high flow type filiters let too much dirt in. Foam type filters are the absolute worse, such as the HKS super filters.

 

[mattjk]

I just read all of what JetJock posted on mkiitech. I started using heavy weight old from reading all of the posts here about rod knock... I've always ran 5w-30 in the past... I'm going to do it again and get that thick crap out of my engine.

 

[Jaguar_5]

There has to be at least one good aftermarket filter, or some other solution for better flow, doesn't there?

Mostly, the stock airbox is really ugly, and takes up a fantastic IC pipe pathway

 

[mattjk]

You can get cone filters for certain Hondas that are factory type paper. I've used a Prelude filter before. Also lots of trucks. Just go to your local pepboys or autozone and open up all the big boxes.

 

[johnathan1]

What kind of filter do you use, Matt?

 

[mattjk]

What kind of filter do you use, Matt?

Driftmotion!

For daily use, I have a paper vacuum cleaner bag I wrap over the cone filter...

 

[starscream5000]

Try a mustang filter...

 

[mattjk]

BTW John, can you make your SIG a bit larger? I can't see it.