Using JZ's igniter in 7M-GTE (+)

[chevyeater]

Thank you everyone, I've found Ron's cardomain page and photo of his engine (and coils setup), so maybe I'll go 1JZ/2JZ-GTE system...

2 figgie: Yes, I know.

You are aware that Ron Ramirez has a Motec standalone in his car? It is quite a bit more pricy than a replacement ignitor, even with shipping to Russia from the US.

JZ ignitors need 6 IGT signals from the ECU as they are not multiplexed nor wastefire. A stock 7M ECU will not operate this ignitor at all, only one IGT and two multiplexed timer signals (IGda and IGdb).

I'd go ahead and get a turbo ignitor shipped from somewhere. How is shipping from Japan for you? Someone should have a 7M ignitor for sale there...

 

[figgie]

You are aware that Ron Ramirez has a Motec standalone in his car? It is quite a bit more pricy than a replacement ignitor, even with shipping to Russia from the US.

JZ ignitors need 6 IGT signals from the ECU as they are not multiplexed nor wastefire. A stock 7M ECU will not operate this ignitor at all, only one IGT and two multiplexed timer signals (IGda and IGdb).

I'd go ahead and get a turbo ignitor shipped from somewhere. How is shipping from Japan for you? Someone should have a 7M ignitor for sale there...

Chevy you are not thinking out of the box

The signal that the 7m ignitor sends out is typical 12v (not the INPUTS of IGT, IGda and IGdb those are 5v inputs). Typical trigger for most COP ignition systems and any distributorless ignition systems (read GM coil packs).

In the 7m coil pack. The one 12v signal triggers two coils (either 1&6, 2&5 or 3&4). Technically if you split the signal up to feed two 1jz coil at the same time (parallel circuitry). It will send the 12v trigger to BOTH coils. And hence forth making them light up The basic premise of how most standalone can interface with just about any ignition system as long as it is a 12v trigger.

edit:: thanks IJ for the catch. I had previously wrote that it was a 5v trigger out of the ignitor assembly when it is actually 12v.

 

[tte]

I think it shouldnt be too hard to do.

Just design a electronic decoder circuit...I am sure if I study how the 7mgte and 1jz works I can come up with a decoder circuit to fire the coils.

Cheers,
Roy

 

[figgie]

decoder? Why make it so complicated. We know the 7m ECU controls 6 cylinders with 3 outputs from the ignitor. It is NOT that difficult. Y off the trigger to two 1jz coils. as long as the 1jz coils don't have to low of a resistance. It should work and not fry the 7m ignitor.

 

[Idealsupra]

decoder? Why make it so complicated. We know the 7m ECU controls 6 cylinders with 3 outputs from the ignitor. It is NOT that difficult. Y off the trigger to two 1jz coils. as long as the 1jz coils don't have to low of a resistance. It should work and not fry the 7m ignitor.

pot....kettle...black

seriously...spend 40 bucks for an ignitor...shiping CANT be more then 50 bucks anywhere in the world for that small piece...so you drop $100 bucks and its a bolt in job...

WHY MAKE IT SO DAMN COMPLICATED!!!!

 

[figgie]

pot....kettle...black

seriously...spend 40 bucks for an ignitor...shiping CANT be more then 50 bucks anywhere in the world for that small piece...so you drop $100 bucks and its a bolt in job...

WHY MAKE IT SO DAMN COMPLICATED!!!!

unless somehow the 1jz ignitor has the SAME number of inputs and same signal reference as the 7m ignitor that the 7m ECU can control. It is NOT simple. Now if it does. Then you are correct

 

[chevyeater]

Chevy you are not thinking out of the box

The signal that the 7m ignitor sends out is typical 12v (not the INPUTS of IGT, IGda and IGdb those are 5v inputs). Typical trigger for most COP ignition systems and any distributorless ignition systems (read GM coil packs).

In the 7m coil pack. The one 12v signal triggers two coils (either 1&6, 2&5 or 3&4). Technically if you split the signal up to feed two 1jz coil at the same time (parallel circuitry). It will send the 12v trigger to BOTH coils. And hence forth making them light up The basic premise of how most standalone can interface with just about any ignition system as long as it is a 12v trigger.

edit:: thanks IJ for the catch. I had previously wrote that it was a 5v trigger out of the ignitor assembly when it is actually 12v.

What? Mr. Y wants to replace his 7M ignitor with a JZ ignitor. This will absolutely not work with the stock ecu, as I've already stated, JZ ignitors need six input triggers. The 7M ecu only has one to give. I suppose you could use a JZ ignitor to drive a single coil for a distributed spark system but, why?

I agree that you can drive quite a few coils with the 7M ignitor, that isn't what the question was though. Mr. Y has a fried ignitor and is looking for a way to replace it.

 

[Allan_MA70]

What? Mr. Y wants to replace his 7M ignitor with a JZ ignitor. This will absolutely not work with the stock ecu, as I've already stated, JZ ignitors need six input triggers. The 7M ecu only has one to give. I suppose you could use a JZ ignitor to drive a single coil for a distributed spark system but, why?

I agree that you can drive quite a few coils with the 7M ignitor, that isn't what the question was though. Mr. Y has a fried ignitor and is looking for a way to replace it.

if you where to tie two of the JZ ignitor trigers you should get waste spare COP... enjoy

 

[chevyeater]

if you where to tie two of the JZ ignitor trigers you should get waste spare COP... enjoy

Hey, spiffy graphic. Maybe you should spend some time figuring out how the ignition works instead of making pictures.

 

[Allan_MA70]

well as soon as i get my hands on a scope i will, should just be a case of finding what wire fires what coil...

heres another photo for you

:fart:

 

[chevyeater]

Hint- Multiplexing

 

[Allan_MA70]

HINT $2 logic chip if so! i highly dought thay would bother multiplexing the ignitor!

 

[Mr. Y]

Ok, people. Thanks to everyone. I'll better find native 7M-GTE igniter.
case closed

 

[ahmedootie]

I have a spare igniter from one of my older supras...it worked fine b4 i blew my motor... if u want it, PM me

 

[chevyeater]

HINT $2 logic chip if so! i highly dought thay would bother multiplexing the ignitor!

What, no more pictures? Since you were so kind to make me a picture, I have a certificate for you...

:wave:

Once you have our friend go out and cobble up a logic chip and a JZ ignitor on his 7M, perhaps you'll be kind enough to tell him why his car runs like crap. It will, because the JZ ignitor has intelligent dwell control and is going to 1/2 dwell time if made to fire in wasted spark mode, that is of course, if it even stays running for more than a few seconds with the IGF it sends to the 7M ecu.

 

[encomiast]

Mr.Y, check out USPS - their online calculator is at http://ircalc.usps.gov.
they're quite inexpensive at international/overseas shipping.... ask me how I know

 

[Allan_MA70]

What, no more pictures?

Nope!

Since you were so kind to make me a picture, I have a certificate for you...

:wave:

owwww im touched in a :gaybar: kind of way

Once you have our friend go out and cobble up a logic chip and a JZ ignitor on his 7M, perhaps you'll be kind enough to tell him why his car runs like crap. It will, because the JZ ignitor has intelligent dwell control and is going to 1/2 dwell time if made to fire in wasted spark mode, that is of course, if it even stays running for more than a few seconds with the IGF it sends to the 7M ecu.

well if i could get a free JZ ignitor id give it a try, upto you if you dont want to try things!

 

[bigaaron]

Ok, before I ever read this, I just happened to be thinking about putting 1j coils on my 7m for a long while and I did the install last night. The 1j ignitor has 6 inputs from the ecu (+5v) and 6 outputs (ground) to the coils. The coils all have a 12v wire from ignition on both 7m and 1j engines. The ignitors ground one side of the coil to fire it, they do not output 12v. So I figured since the 1j coils are close to double the resistance of the 7m coils, I could just parallel 3 pairs for cyl's 1&6 2&5 3&4, and run it with the 7m ignitor, which I did. It fired right up and idled better then the 7m coil pack ever did. It revs up nice and I thought everything was great....... till I hit boost
Under boost it bogs badly like it has not got enough spark. I think that the 7m ignitor is not able to sink enough amperage for 3 parallel 1j coil pairs.

And this is what led me to search for this thread...
The 7m ignitor outputs seem to be multiplexed, like previously mentioned. Look at the ignitor test procedure in the tsrm if you don't believe it. Also notice that the 7m ignitor outputs are not a,b,c or 1,2,3. They are iga, igb, igt and igf. So my options seem to be this:

a) parallel the INPUTS of two 7m ignitors and run one 1j coil off of each of the outputs. This would take care of the multiplex input, and the paralleled ignitor input current draw should be very low since it is logic level.

b) get a 1j ignitor, parallel 3 pairs on the input and run 1 coil per output. Problem is, the cost and how to make it work from the 7m ecu outputs???

c)put it back to stock and admit defeat. (c is not an option)

I am going to be researching this further but any ideas?

 

[bigaaron]

I think igf is the tach output, not an input from the ecu. So iga igb and igt are the 3 inputs to the ignitor, right?

 

[siman]

Guys.....whoa!


You do need a stand alone to actually make it work. the CPS is not made for COP systems....

I am going with a COP system with my standalone this fall. The 1jz/2jz coilpacks are the same if I am not mistaken and reach the plugs perfectly fine...just getting the spark to the coils at the right time is the key....standalone is the key.

You could buy MSD coilpacks like Duane ( CFX guy) and route extra long spark plug wires....looks 100% cleaner and obviously a better spark..

-Jonathan