tunning @ 16 psi am I crazy???????????

Rajunz

Fast Coonass
Apr 5, 2005
794
0
16
Austin, Texas USA
www.cardomain.com
DAMN, I had to check and see which forum I'm on, sounds alot like SupraForums in this thread...............................for what it's worth, someone did a dyno test a few years back on a stock CT. The turbo gained about 16 RWHP for each pound of boost up until 14 psi. From 14 psi to 18 psi it only gailed 10 more RWHP......................I'll see if I can find a link.
 

X-man

member
Dec 5, 2005
309
0
0
Pulaski,Va
Aaron nobody is implying that your crazy or you don't know what you are talking about. I reacted to two things, first off the question was is tuning to 16 psi crazy on his mods. People jumped right in and said no. You showed a bunch of pictures of blown headgaskets and pointed out issues with coolant passages which are very viable concerns and will, if let go, blow at any boost level, but again this goes back to poor maintainance on a engines cooling system by maintaining correct ph levels by servicing your cooling system like your supposed too rather than running higher than stock boost levels.

7m's in Supras from the factory run to hot, average temps on the stock system are 200 to 220 degrees and this is without the a/c running. As you mention when you crank the boost up you make more heat, sometimes more than the stock system can deal with. This can lead to headgasket failure as well as the stock bolts being torqued to factory specs. In the mid 90's Toyota reengineered or upgraded the 7m headgasket and they aren't a bad design, but if you abuse or overlook all the other systems something is going to give. If a person didn't know the condition of their engine I'd agree with you 100% that blowing a stock headgasket is a more than likely consequence of raising boost levels, but a properly maintained engine/car with the proper tune and supporting mods should in my opinion be fine. Is he going to make that much more power by going out of the turbo's efficency range, I don't know but he does list an intercooler nitrous kit which should make things interesting to say the least.

Second was what seemed to be a personal attack on Dave, who is a very good friend of mine and one of the better 7m tuners most people will run across. Dave was one of the only people to point out him lacking an upgraded fuel pump and to be careful because of that. He was actually addressing issues with running safe at the boost levels in question instead of just saying no, can't be done.
Like I stated above I get tired of people putting limits on what these engines can or can't do, and no I'm not saying your doing that. These engines are very tuff and can take alot of abuse but you have to address everything and make sure that all of your supporting systems are up to spec.

Finally your are right about me being a smartass in my earlier comment and I apologize for getting childish, but if you read your comments on page 1 at the bottom maybe you'll see where I'm coming from. I do have two websites/businesses listed in my signature and one of them is Dave H. and Dave B's. site for selling Supra and turbo parts for the community, but like the website in your signature they are only there to help the community.

Bottomline running anything over 6-8 psi on a 7m-gte is pushing this engine past what Toyota said it would do or should do, so there is always a risk of hurting something. Make sure you are comfortable tuning cars at higher boost levels, make sure you have the correct supporting mods, and make sure you know the maintainance and history of the car your tuning. Any shortcuts in any of these steps with bite you in the ass.

Sean
 
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bigaaron

Supramania Contributor
Apr 12, 2005
4,692
1
0
49
Pomona, CA
www.driftmotion.com
X-man said:
Aaron nobody is implying that your crazy or you don't know what you are talking about. I reacted to two things, first off the question was is tuning to 16 psi crazy on his mods. People jumped right in and said no. You showed a bunch of pictures of blown headgaskets and pointed out issues with coolant passages which are very viable concerns and will, if let go, blow at any boost level, but again this goes back to poor maintainance on a engines cooling system by maintaining correct ph levels by servicing your cooling system like your supposed too rather than running higher than stock boost levels.

7m's in Supras from the factory run to hot, average temps on the stock system are 200 to 220 degrees and this is without the a/c running. As you mention when you crank the boost up you make more heat, sometimes more than the stock system can deal with. This can lead to headgasket failure as well as the stock bolts being torqued to factory specs. In the mid 90's Toyota reengineered or upgraded the 7m headgasket and they aren't a bad design, but if you abuse or overlook all the other systems something is going to give. If a person didn't know the condition of their engine I'd agree with you 100% that blowing a stock headgasket is a more than likely consequence of raising boost levels, but a properly maintained engine/car with the proper tune and supporting mods should in my opinion be fine. Is he going to make that much more power by going out of the turbo's efficency range, I don't know but he does list an intercooler nitrous kit which should make things interesting to say the least.

Second was what seemed to be a personal attack on Dave, who is a very good friend of mine and one of the better 7m tuners most people will run across. Dave was one of the only people to point out him lacking an upgraded fuel pump and to be careful because of that. He was actually addressing issues with running safe at the boost levels in question instead of just saying no, can't be done.
Like I stated above I get tired of people putting limits on what these engines can or can't do, and no I'm not saying your doing that. These engines are very tuff and can take alot of abuse but you have to address everything and make sure that all of your supporting systems are up to spec.

Finally your are right about me being a smartass in my earlier comment and I apologize for getting childish, but if you read your comments on page 1 at the bottom maybe you'll see where I'm coming from. I do have two websites/businesses listed in my signature and one of them is Dave H. and Dave B's. site for selling Supra and turbo parts for the community, but like the website in your signature they are only there to help the community.

Bottomline running anything over 6-8 psi on a 7m-gte is pushing this engine past what Toyota said it would do or should do, so there is always a risk of hurting something. Make sure you are comfortable tuning cars at higher boost levels, make sure you have the correct supporting mods, and make sure you know the maintainance and history of the car your tuning. Any shortcuts in any of these steps with bite you in the ass.

Sean

Now that was well put! :bigthumb:
I think sometimes things get heated because we look at all the things we disagree on, instead of looking at all the things we do agree about. I'm at fault just as much for being all sarcastic and I apologize too. And I don't mind the websites in your sig at all, you obviously spend the time to offer your help and expertise with Supras online for free and you know your ish to be making 700whp on a 7m!!! That is no small task even with a metal hg!

I talk in person just like I do online, but I forget you can't see me smiling when I say stuff. This was a hobby for me long before it was a business, and even though I have a business, it's still my hobby. I could make a whole lot more money doing management or working for a dealership or whatever, but I'm doing what I love and you can't put a price on that.
 

staticpat

Supra Chair!
Mar 30, 2005
450
0
0
40
Birmingham, AL
Group Hug!

As for Rajunz comment about the stock ct-26 gaining 10rwhp for each psi above 14. I was under the impression the gains were even less than that. I've been hesitant to turn my boost above 15psi on an upgraded ct-26. I guess there's defintely power to be had, at least until 18-20psi.
 

Doward

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
4,245
0
36
Alachua, FL
Haha... yeah, I figure we'll see how far I get on the Fel-Pro gasket.. until it eventually does go, I'll have yours hanging in my garage Aaron ;)
 

fsupra

New Member
Mar 14, 2006
3
0
0
mountjuliet tn
just want to add to somthing important i am runing 12;5;afr at boost but at 8psi with standalone sds em4f set up, must turbo cars make peak power at this afr low 11-afr is to rich and dont make maxium power the key here is to run any were between 12-13afr with some timing retard if when runing high boost the timing needs to be retard some or you might detonate
 

born2drv

Banned
Nov 1, 2005
1,199
0
0
Burbank, CA
Who knows what the max turbo pressure could be on the stock HG... remember different setups move different amounts of air at different pressures.

Whether 20psi is 95% guaranteed to blow your stock HG, or 10psi is 30% likely to blow your stock HG, it's all relative to how well you've maintained it, how much you abuse it, and how much you're willing to risk.

Before pushing it just be sure you have a back up plan (ie. another built up motor that will take the abuse and ready to swap).

I put the MHG/ARP's in my car... now with 400+hp on stock internals, I know there's a 50/50 chance I could still kill it. But I have a backup plan (American Express) LOL .... and I don't plan to really abuse it. :)
 

dbsupra90

toonar
Apr 1, 2005
2,374
0
0
indiucky
fsupra said:
just want to add to somthing important i am runing 12;5;afr at boost but at 8psi with standalone sds em4f set up, must turbo cars make peak power at this afr low 11-afr is to rich and dont make maxium power the key here is to run any were between 12-13afr with some timing retard if when runing high boost the timing needs to be retard some or you might detonate

my car made the most hp at 12.2:1. anything leaner and it started to fall off.
the problem with timing retard is there are only a couple systems that will allow you to adjust it.

still, i have always believed the best a/f for power vs safety is 11.5-11.8:1
sure you can run it leaner for more power, but i am willing to sacrafice a bit of hp for a wider safety margin. it really comes down to that.