Trying to Solve Fuel cut - at wits end - this one will stump you

ArmandoP

Supramania Contributor
Nov 4, 2006
313
0
0
Indianoplace
MDCmotorsports;1009185 said:
Ditch the muffler on the wastegate and come down here so we can port the wastegate hole.
i checked the port last night. theres no moe room to port. its a 1 inch hole the flapper barely covers it.

also the muffler is a 1 inch id, but ima cut it off anyways and see what happens. anyone know where to pick up a new c clip? napa?
 

wuestda

Beemer
Jul 2, 2007
4
0
0
Ohio
Greetings,
I have been through this one myself. Basically fuel cut is designed to protect your engine and occurs for multiple reasons.
Reason One: MAP sensor is programmed to cut fuel if boost exceeds (x) pounds - That seems to be your issue, since it is consistent as hell.

Reason 2: AFM detects too lean a mixture at high boost (VERY bad for engine).

Quick question - how do you know that your wastegate is not popping open at 14? It is set to 8lbs stock and wastegate shimming will only get you to 12 or so.

I used an FCD fuel-cut defencer to eliminate the first situation. NOTE CAREFULLY - the wiring diagrams that come with the FCD unit MAY not be correct. I found an alternate wiring diagram on this forum and it worked. I am now able to hold boost levels up to 20 PSI, and peak at 28.5 with no engine issues -except that when fuel cut DOES hit at that level of boost it's like deploying a drag chute on the Qtr-mile.

Someone on this forum told me that you get 11h.p. for every pound of boost. so if you do the math on my situation - I should be putting down about 400 horsies at the rear wheels. My engine and exhaust are mostly stock (EGR) is off, and I do have the 550cc injectors, but otherwise stock.

Hope this helps!!



ArmandoP;1006414 said:
Hey everyone. I will try to provide as much detail as possible. I have searched and searched and tested and tested, and now Im at wits end. I need some help figuring this out.

car: 89 turbo with a jdm 7mgte swap cause the PO was an idiot who thought it easier to swap than fix a BHG.

engine: post 89 7mgte with no emissions stuff

current modifications: turbonetics 62-1 hifi turbo with ported wastegate hole, BIC divorced downpipe with motorcycle muffler on wastegate pipe, minor head porting, lex AFM with K&N filter and Sonic Screw, 580cc injectors with clips, 4 inch MDC downpipe back exhaust, no emissions equipment (egr, canister, cat), no boost controller, Tial BOV with 11pound spring, 2.25" upper intercooler piping, 2" lower piping, Jtube bypass, electric cooling fan, autometer boostgauge in the dash.

The diag process starts back several months ago. While on the stock turbo with BIC downpipe and stock injectors and stock AFM I found fuel cut with a boost controller. No problem, back down the controller and Im good at this point. so good so far. Went to the dyno and saw my top end falling flat. MDC was nice enough to build me a one of a kind 4" exhaust to help resolve the lack of top end power and from this point I cannot get away from fuelcut. As soon as the exhaust was installed I removed the boost controller and was hitting fuel cut and running extremely rich.

Remedy #1: Lex AFM and 580CC injectors

still hits fuel cut.

Remedy #2: back out the Sonic screw to try to trick the AFM out of fuelcut so low
still hits fuelcut. Then I opened up the bov port on the accordion pipe to let in some unmetered air. no dice, still hits fuel cut.

Remedy #3: boost leak test.
found one small leak, fixed it. I drove the car all of about a mile before the stock turbo shat itself. so I never got to see if this actually fixed it.

At this point I already had the turbonetics turbo so I swapped turbos and installed the muffler on the downpipe so as to not get arrested every time I floored it. get the car back on the road and BAM, fuel cut. only now its atleast alot of fun right before it hits it. Boost comes on very strong at 3500rpm or so. Im thinking this car would be alot of fun if I could rev past 4500rpm... now it hits 14-15psi and slams fuel cut at that point without a boost controller.

remedy #4: boost leak test.... again
minor problem found air coming out from behind the compressor housing. I read on "the all knowing internet" that this is ok since it held pressure for a couple of minutes no problem. I also couldnt get the manifold to hold pressure, but this also appears to be normal.

remedy #5: replace 7pound Tial BOV Spring with 11pound tial BOV spring just in case the BOV was leaking
waste of time, still hits fuel cut and now has some surge to boot.

remedy #6: replace injector seals and upper manifold gaskets hoping they were leaking boost
no dice, still hits fuel cut.

remedy #7: remove J tube (Im reaching at this point guys)
still hits fuel cut, still runs rich.

remedy #8: pressure test intercooler
nope, no boost leaks found here. still hits fuel cut.

remedy #9: loosen up wastegate actuator.
It dawns on me that the car should not be hitting 14psi when the guy who sold me the turbo said the actuator was hitting 10psi on his car with the same actuator and no controller with the same dp and a 3" catback... got the wastegate actuator loose then adjusted it open a bit and set it so it was just barely loose. Looked inside the downpipe at that time to see if it might be hitting the wastegate flapper, nope, no interference found. Put the thing back together with a big smile on my face thinking I finally figured it out and went for a test drive and guess what?!?!?!?! The freaking thing still slams into fuel cut at 14psi with no boost controller.

Like I said, I need some help here guys. I have a dyno commitment at a meet in Indy on the 10th and Id really rather not dyno the Scion... :( Im hoping someone can post something simple Im forgetting.

Summary: fuelcut sucks, been troubleshooting for months please help.

AP
 

Pantaloon007

Permanent Ban
Apr 2, 2008
76
0
0
Vegas
As usual, the most perplexing problems are typically simple in nature. Having the muffler on the dump pipe might actually be backing the exhaust back into the turbine. Thats fascinating that your wastegate flows better than what a average 1L motorcycle can do...

Now go out to the car and pray to the toyota gods while flinging incense and hopping on your left leg and dunking your head with motor oil
 

figgie

Supramania Contributor
Mar 30, 2005
5,225
16
38
50
Twin Cities, Minnesot-ah
we are three liters. add to that the turbo breathing more "artificial" cubes into the system and you can easily be 6 L per Rev and above. Quite easy to outflow the 1000cc bike engine.
 

MDCmotorsports

Offical SM Expert: Turbochargers
SM Expert
Mar 31, 2005
4,194
2
38
43
Indy 500
www.MDCmotorsports.com
ArmandoP;1009198 said:
i checked the port last night. theres no moe room to port. its a 1 inch hole the flapper barely covers it.

also the muffler is a 1 inch id, but ima cut it off anyways and see what happens. anyone know where to pick up a new c clip? napa?

Napa should have the E/C clip.

I have plenty of them down here.....

If you're having problems with this turbine housing, the SP61Gt won't do you any good - THEY RUN THE SAME EXHAUST HOUSING. :-(
 

Aspec

Supra uber alles
Dec 22, 2005
261
0
0
Surprise, AZ
Are you using a tubular header? If so why not just weld the internal gate shut, switch to a non-divorced downpipe (would not be hard to alter yours) and add an external gate to the tube header?




_
 

ArmandoP

Supramania Contributor
Nov 4, 2006
313
0
0
Indianoplace
Aspec;1009577 said:
Are you using a tubular header? If so why not just weld the internal gate shut, switch to a non-divorced downpipe (would not be hard to alter yours) and add an external gate to the tube header?




_

cause the whole point was to maintain a stock manifold... no tubular here just yet.
 

ArmandoP

Supramania Contributor
Nov 4, 2006
313
0
0
Indianoplace
Got the wastegate muffler removed. hehehe I like sawzalls.

Gonna pick up the e clip tomorrow sintead of jacking around with linemans pliers and wire (yeeeeehaw).... should be able to test ti again tomorrow. keep your fingers crossed please.
Armando
 

Doward

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
4,245
0
36
Alachua, FL
wuestda;1009229 said:
Greetings,
I have been through this one myself. Basically fuel cut is designed to protect your engine and occurs for multiple reasons.
Reason One: MAP sensor is programmed to cut fuel if boost exceeds (x) pounds - That seems to be your issue, since it is consistent as hell.

Reason 2: AFM detects too lean a mixture at high boost (VERY bad for engine).

Quick question - how do you know that your wastegate is not popping open at 14? It is set to 8lbs stock and wastegate shimming will only get you to 12 or so.

I used an FCD fuel-cut defencer to eliminate the first situation. NOTE CAREFULLY - the wiring diagrams that come with the FCD unit MAY not be correct. I found an alternate wiring diagram on this forum and it worked. I am now able to hold boost levels up to 20 PSI, and peak at 28.5 with no engine issues -except that when fuel cut DOES hit at that level of boost it's like deploying a drag chute on the Qtr-mile.

Someone on this forum told me that you get 11h.p. for every pound of boost. so if you do the math on my situation - I should be putting down about 400 horsies at the rear wheels. My engine and exhaust are mostly stock (EGR) is off, and I do have the 550cc injectors, but otherwise stock.

Hope this helps!!

A) No MAP sensor hooked up to the ECU. #1 is wrong.
B) AFM can not detect a lean condition. #2 is wrong.
C) There is no set xx hp per psi of pressure. Too many variables for that.
D) You can't possibly be running 28psi on pump gas with a stock CT26 + 550s, nor are you making near 400hp, even at 20psi on a stock ct26.

Just wanted to clear that up. :3d_frown:
 

ArmandoP

Supramania Contributor
Nov 4, 2006
313
0
0
Indianoplace
ok, so I found an e clip. got the wastegate hooked up and everything ready to go with the wastegate muffler off....
I can now hear the wastegate opening up at 5psi and the boost keeps climbing up to 15psi where it hits fuelcut.

interestingly enough, when it hit fuelcut the wastegate got stuck open. So I tried wot again and it hits fuelcut even with the wastegate open without the wastegate muffler, so that wasnt the problem.

I thought I had lost the clip, but after inspecting it it was just stuck open, so I popped the actuator bar back with a screwdriver and its opening up again at 5psi, but still climbing to 15psi and hitting fuelcut at that point.

I think converting to external gate is probably my only option at this point unless I swap exhaust housings or turbos entirely. anyone disagree with this? Am I missing anything?
 

Doward

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
4,245
0
36
Alachua, FL
Jon will most likely help him out with it. ;)

Let's face it, diagnosing over the internet is never as good as being there in person :)