Titanium valves for the 7M

[madsupra88]

Was wondering has anyone thought about installing some titanium valves in their 7M head! Ive searched and all i see is stainless steel valves which in my opinion is pointless. Reason i ask is because i have access to make this happen, just want to see others opinions on this.

Im talking Titanium Valves,retainers,and locks.

 

[jetjock]

I assume you're referring to intake valves...

 

[madsupra88]

Both intake and exhaust.

stock intake valve weights 46 g Titanium intake valve weights 26
Stock Exhaust valve weights 41g Titanium exhaust weights 28
4 Angle valve job
weigh is cut down to half
better fit titanium retainers
titanium locks

Gotta remember, this might not seem much, but in valvetrain that is a huge difference, Improved flow on the valve itself, less stress on cams/caps etc.

 

[IJ.]

Both intake and exhaust.

stock intake valve weights 46 g Titanium intake valve weights 26
Stock Exhaust valve weights 41g Titanium exhaust weights 28
4 Angle valve job
weigh is cut down to half
better fit titanium retainers
titanium locks

Gotta remember, this might not seem much, but in valvetrain that is a huge difference, Improved flow on the valve itself, less stress on cams/caps etc.

Waste of $$$ unless you're planning on running it sustained at 9+K rpm, where does the improved flow come from?

 

[madsupra88]

With the valve being cut 4 angles, it would have the corners the intake wants, i would say more efficient than stock, also if you include a nice port/polish, i dont see where this would be a waste of money! Buying stainless steel is a waste in my opinion when you can get titanium for just as much!

All 24 valves titaniuim (could be stock diameter or oversize)
all titanium retainers
titanium locks
@ $1000 you cant beat that price, specially when stainless steel is selling for more. Also available for 1j/2j

This is a discussion, and im also still learning so please correct me if im wrong .

thanks
-Saif

 

[IJ.]

Nothing stopping you using a 3>4 angle job on SS valves, Ti is weaker than SS so the valve profile needs to be a touch bulkier so you lose flow there, personally I think it'[s a total waste of time effort and money if you're not revving the engine to infinity.

You need to factor in the longevity aspect as well, Ti valves have a place in an all out race engine, for most it's just "bling/wank value"

As for same price.... Quality Ti costs, take a moment to run a geiger counter over your cheap valves

 

[madsupra88]

quick pics
Stock Intake

Titanium Intake (still wasnt fully done)

Our donor 7M head

More custom valves

---------- Post added at 02:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 AM ----------

These are same exact valves used in Honda nascar v8's revving to 20k rpm, I'm wouldn't think longevity is an issue

---------- Post added at 02:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 AM ----------

Titanium has a stronger weight ratio. Steel can be stronger overall if the weight doesn't matter.

 

[IJ.]

Go for it you seem to know all about the subject.....

 

[GrimJack]

Errr... you do realize that race car engines live FAR shorter lives than street cars, right? Race engines only care about enough longevity to finish the race.

 

[Poodles]

One of the reasons engines with 4 valves per cylinder rev so well is the lower weight of the individual valves and their associated parts (springs, keepers, etc). With just a better spring, the 7M will spin up to speeds that are outflowing a stock head, so this is entirely pointless.

Honda's F1 V8's when cold are actually seized. They have to pump hot oil through them to even start them. Comparing a freakish race engine to a normal engine is a logical fallacy...

Not to mention, the S2000 engine has the highest piston speeds of any production vehicle (and a redline of 9K) doesn't run titanium valves.

 

[madsupra88]

Go for it you seem to know all about the subject.....

Not trying to be a smart ass here IJ ,as most people on these forums im still learning! i just thought it was a great idea having titanium valvetrain, and just going off of a little bit of researching.

The same guy thats making these for this company is the same guy im talking about thats making them.
http://rallyroad.net/content/titanium-valves-titanium-retainers-and-keepers

 

[IJ.]

Ok this will be my last post on the subject....

I understand you're all excited that someone 2 doors down is making these things BUT and this it something you need to research fully, a Ti Valve isn't going to be as strong as a Quality SS Valve like a Ferrea, nor is it going to flow anywhere near as much due to the SS valves superior strength they can neck the stem down a lot just above the head.

Can't do that with Ti and expect any sort of longevity, your comment about weight/strength doesn't apply as you're bound by the Valve dimensions so there's no way to add mass to the Ti valve to get it the same strength as an SS one.

Ti valves have their place and that's usually in 2 Valve engines that need to rev hard and are always carefully inspected unlike a road car engine that can go 10's of 1000's of miles between teardowns.

I've worked with the material and know and understand it's limitations.

 

[madsupra88]

I will be going this route to learn and experience the difference between the 2.

I appreciate the response IJ, your more than welcome to delete this thread.

-Saif



P.s This was a good read
http://www.rehermorrison.com/blog/?p=517

 

[Enraged]

why would he delete the thread?

from the sounds of it, Ti valves would be fine on a race motor that revs to the moon consistently, but for a street car SS valves are better.

 

[madsupra88]

why would he delete the thread?

from the sounds of it, Ti valves would be fine on a race motor that revs to the moon consistently, but for a street car SS valves are better.

Reason i say that is because everyone seems too against it.

So for 1k you wouldnt want Ti valves, Ti retainers and Ti keepers?, i know i would. So why offer another product that noone makes for the 7m and the jz series

 

[Enraged]

if it had a benefit for a street car, and i was building up a head, then yes, i would run Ti valves. but from the sounds of it, SS is better on the street when a motor goes long periods of times between rebuilds.

dont get offended becuase someone doesnt agree with you. the whole point of this forum is for discussion.

 

[Flateric]

I also am learn'n from this convo, I don't see it as anyone being "against" anything. Just saying that each has it's place and obviously the priorities for a race engine are different than a streeted engine. I'm learning new stuff here anyways.

 

[Supracentral]

I also am learn'n from this convo, I don't see it as anyone being "against" anything. Just saying that each has it's place and obviously the priorities for a race engine are different than a streeted engine. I'm learning new stuff here anyways.

This is a very valid discussion. The parts, tolerances and break in I use for a 1,500+ hp drag motor are radically different from what I use on a motor that's built for the street. When building race engines, you generally don't have the luxury of a long break in, nor the requirements of longevity needed for a street motor. The "if it's good enough for racing, it's good enough for my street car" approach is wrongheaded at best, and dangerous at its worst.

I'd never run Ti valves in a street motor. In fact I don't think I'd ever consider them for any 4 valve inline 6 Toyota build. It's just not a sensible choice for these motors.

Hell, at 1,500+ RWHP in the drag car with 9K+ shift points I didn't run Ti valves.

 

[madsupra88]

if it had a benefit for a street car, and i was building up a head, then yes, i would run Ti valves. but from the sounds of it, SS is better on the street when a motor goes long periods of times between rebuilds.

dont get offended becuase someone doesnt agree with you. the whole point of this forum is for discussion.

Not getting offended at all lol , I'm actually learning something new thanks to you guys. The way I thought of it was that these valves you can rev up to 20k rpm and not worry about valve float for hours at a time, so it would make me think that these are very durable and light weight. Which gave me the idea to make a full TI valve-train, on top of that i have a good connection to make it happen for a very reasonable price, i got very excited. Then the more i read what you guys say on here, and the more researching i do make me think again like "damn i thought it would be a sweet idea "

Just thought I might have opened up an opportunity for the 7m/Jz guys :-/

-Saif

 

[Enraged]

i think the Ti retainers and keepers are a good idea