The boys are coming home from Iraq

[dulobast25]

That happened, they kept the inspectors out IIRC

Hmmm, what exactly do you mean by this? Are you advocating sending in a battalion, or even brigade sized element into Iraq by themselves? What do you think the Republican Guard would have done to that element? Further, do you have any idea of the size of the required support element it would take to move said element the 450 miles from Kuwait to Bagdad? I don't think you do.

Your premise is bunk.

What about the element that you had sent on this retarded mission? Lambs to the slaughter, I guess.....


I don't understand your point....at all.

You know whats funny? Is that it isnt your job or my job to attack N. Korea. That job is for the pres of the united states. Funny how you ask questions with hypotheticals and criticize the asnwers all thw while drawing attention from the war that we ARE in in reality. Next move is to talk about how stupid any idea is of someone who disagree with the president on a topic other than the one we are talkign about. The Other funny observation is even if i said that i want to mail jelly beans to North Korea, that doesnt make the Iraq war any more of a success of failure. This is the kind of stuff we are talking about. And uh, the other gentleman in this thread asked me what i would do, not what has or hasnt happened yet or been done yet. Yeah you may not undesrtand my point. that can mean 2 things. Oh and if you want to throw in characterizations about how retarded a hypthetical answer is to a hypthetical question is "retarded", than maybe the outcomes or a real war what was waged idiotically must be incredibly idiotic and even more so, retarded. Let me guess. you think the iraq war was waged brillaintly and we achieved was the american people wanted after 9-11.
You talk about Lambs to the slaughter, i dotn know waht yoi call 40 dead american soldiers in one week all many w/o body armor this country can afford, with a cloudy mission that in neverending and perpetual...without a plan or strategy...weve lost what is it now over 3000 soldiers. Uhh if it isnt waht you call Lambs to the slaughter, i dont know what is. The death rate of American solders is relatively steady and if it keep going this way we will be ther until they are ll dead, or we draft, or we pull out. Since we dont care about how other nations feel about us and we dont change strategies, we dont intimidate anyone, than dont be surprised if we continue to get ambushed etc. More like sheep to the slaugter house. As long as you dont ask questions and stand in line, you will be be around until they all fall.
Facts dictate something must give. It cant continue the way it is currently.
If so, you are either blind or well.....
And uhh, read again we were talking about n Korea, not Iraq.
So your post was bunk,..no bunk isnt the right word.....ur post was retarded
Get back on topic so we can talk about the same thing.
the question was..
"What is your plan to stop the North Korean nuclear threat?"

Now that u have entered the arena.
Tell me how we are going to win this war.
And how to you measure a win
See I have the feeling you think that I am Anti-American
I'm Not
If i dont agree with the direction this country is going, I should speak up. What kind of citizen would i be if i didnt?
Get beyond blasting anyone who isnt for this war, please.

 

[RHDMK3]

Now that u have entered the arena.
Tell me how we are going to win this war.
And how to you measure a win
See I have the feeling you think that I am Anti-American
I'm Not
If i dont agree with the direction this country is going, I should speak up. What kind of citizen would i be if i didnt?
Get beyond blasting anyone who isnt for this war, please.

The man brings a up a good point. It seems that the right seems to think that if you dont support the war then you dont support the troops and that your an un-partriotic left wing communist. I think that is a bunch of bullshit! I don't support this war or the douche bags that got us into this quagmire and I still consider myself a patriot.

 

[rakkasan]

blah, blah, blah

How about adding some real substance to your tirade? You said "If they refuse, then we send in military to accompany inspectors.". What troops would you send, how many, where would they come from, how would you substain them? You seen to have a better plan to handle the situation & you're very critical of the administrations tactic, so you must be Johnny on the spot. Quit being the arm chair quarterback and tell me the answers to the above questions.

I'll make it easy for you by telling you that pre OIF, there was on battalion sized task force in theater located south of Iraq. I can't recall if they were in Saudi or Kuwait, but I believe it was Saudi Arabia. Are these the troops you would send in with the inspectors? If so, how would you logistical support sustain them?

These are not hypothetical questions, they are facts that you have to deal with when you play the "if I was the President" game. You are the one spouting off at the mouth instead of engaging in an intelligent debate. Instead, you run your mouth non stop about how pissed you are that things haven't gone the way you wish, yet you don't give a shit ehough to learn about how the game is played.

Come on President Duloblast, put your money where your mouth is & give me, your field commander, your plan for me to secure the inspectors for you. My troops are standing by awaiting your orders.....

 

[rakkasan]

The man brings a up a good point. It seems that the right seems to think that if you dont support the war then you dont support the troops and that your an un-partriotic left wing communist. I think that is a bunch of bullshit! I don't support this war or the douche bags that got us into this quagmire and I still consider myself a patriot.

He's stretching if he thinks I claimed that. I simply would like to know how he would execute the plans he laid out above.

 

[RHDMK3]

^^ It was Kuwait. The Saudi's asked the US Forces to leave the Kingdom long before 9-11.

 

[RHDMK3]

He's stretching if he thinks I claimed that. I simply would like to know how he would execute the plans he laid out above.

I never said you personally said this. I've though gotten this from many people. And I am in the military.

 

[rakkasan]

^^ It was Kuwait. The Saudi's asked the US Forces to leave the Kingdom long before 9-11.

You're correct.

 

[rakkasan]

I never said you personally said this. I've though gotten this from many people. And I am in the military.

He addressed me specifically, so that threw me off. My appologies...

I feel somewhat the same way, It needs to be ended now. I don't regret the invasion, they posed a sustained threat that needed to be removed. After reducing Saddams regime, I felt obligated to get Iraq back on it's feet. 5 years later though, they refuse to do anyhing for themselves, so it's a lost cause, so pack it up & bring 'em home. I'll feel no remorse after we leave if they fall flat on their faces...

 

[RHDMK3]

The PM over there is pandering to that douche bag Al- Sadr and the rest of them. We have tried to give them the tools to stand up on there feet and government apparently has no spine. You can offer democracy but you cant force it. I say we leave now. The PM even said this morning on the news that the "Coalition" is responsible for most of the tension there. I say we just leave without notice.

 

[rakkasan]

The PM over there is pandering to that douche bag Al- Sadr and the rest of them. We have tried to give them the tools to stand up on there feet and government apparently has no spine. You can offer democracy but you cant force it. I say we leave now. The PM even said this morning on the news that the "Coalition" is responsible for most of the tension there. I say we just leave without notice.

Well said, I agree 100%!

 

[dulobast25]

How about adding some real substance to your tirade? You said "If they refuse, then we send in military to accompany inspectors.". What troops would you send, how many, where would they come from, how would you substain them? You seen to have a better plan to handle the situation & you're very critical of the administrations tactic, so you must be Johnny on the spot. Quit being the arm chair quarterback and tell me the answers to the above questions.

I'll make it easy for you by telling you that pre OIF, there was on battalion sized task force in theater located south of Iraq. I can't recall if they were in Saudi or Kuwait, but I believe it was Saudi Arabia. Are these the troops you would send in with the inspectors? If so, how would you logistical support sustain them?

These are not hypothetical questions, they are facts that you have to deal with when you play the "if I was the President" game. You are the one spouting off at the mouth instead of engaging in an intelligent debate. Instead, you run your mouth non stop about how pissed you are that things haven't gone the way you wish, yet you don't give a shit ehough to learn about how the game is played.

Come on President Duloblast, put your money where your mouth is & give me, your field commander, your plan for me to secure the inspectors for you. My troops are standing by awaiting your orders.....

1) i asked you first, so you asnwer first.
2)i dont want o be president. Someone Asked me a question and I answered it.
3)When someone asks what I would do if I had to make the decisison, then i shouib be allowed to answer and in my words, not yours. I guess I'm supposed to just say, i dont asnwer stuff like that becasue it will threaten national security etc...like this admin does.
4)when soemone asks "what would you do if.." that by definition is a hypothetical. Since you try to judge my spelling, i have to question your intellect.
5)Now i have to play toys soldiers and make up names for my field commander and the like...lOl, man ur silly.
6)If it was simply the case war didnt go the way i liked, it wouldnt matter. What matters is the dead iraqis, US soldiers and money spent in waging a war thatn didnt go the way i liked. Is that distinction clear enough for you?
7)Sounds like ur my "armchair quarterback" telling me the answers i should give you as a dissenter. Well you arent a dissenter! Your a supporter. Quit being my "armchair quarterback"
8)"Armchair quarterback" is another word for opinion. You have them eveyday. I dont see you taking on the profession of everyone that makes a mistake in your eyes. Hell if a guy at the drive thru messes up my order, I dont start assigning area supervisors, and scheduling trash pickup and ordering napkins, sporks adn hiring employees...Hell i tell them that screwed up my order and they should correct it or find someone who can. In other words do their job. It doesnt mean you want the job.
Wake up

 

[dulobast25]

I was against the war
I figured that once we broke it that we should fix it.
Then in became obvious that not only should it not have been waged, but that fixing it may be impossible
Then i felt that we should bring our troops home
And now i feel those who waged and mismanaged the war should be held accountable. We hire them to do their job.


None of the above is armchaor quarterbacking
its called point of view.
Rak, if you would pay attention you may find that non military folks
have some of the opinions that you have and that being in the military doesnt give you
sacred rule over discussing this war.
Try to embrace dissenting points of view, please.

 

[dulobast25]

He's stretching if he thinks I claimed that. I simply would like to know how he would execute the plans he laid out above.

I didnt say you claimed that. i said that i feel that that is your point fo view. And that is based on your posts. But i nver said that you claimed that i was anti-american. I do, however feel that you think that. I put that in my post.

 

[dulobast25]

He addressed me specifically, so that threw me off. My appologies...

I feel somewhat the same way, It needs to be ended now. I don't regret the invasion, they posed a sustained threat that needed to be removed. After reducing Saddams regime, I felt obligated to get Iraq back on it's feet. 5 years later though, they refuse to do anyhing for themselves, so it's a lost cause, so pack it up & bring 'em home. I'll feel no remorse after we leave if they fall flat on their faces...

I'm glad we can agree on something:
I generically belive what u have said here, but almost inverted:
I feel that needs to be ended, but NOt now. I DO regret the invasion. I feel they posed no more a threat to us as N. Korea and Iran, and as such if it can be done properly, ALL such threat should be handled. Since the regime was destrotyed and reduced, I too felt and still feel in many ways obligated to get Iraq back on its feet. For me every year after 2003 i have felt they would never do anything for themselves unless the conditions were ideal to do so and that until those conditions were ideal, it wasnt gonna happen. The burden was on us to creat such as situation. I felt the way the war was waged, if there werent any ideological changes that the conditions would remain. After years of doing the same thing and getting the same results i concluded that after many attempts the only was of saving this war was ro insist we change strategy or begin a phased withdrawl. I felt that since our presence aggravate the situation, that iv we minimize our visibility, that the violence may stabilize to a lesser bu still dangerous level, on that didnt intimitade the iraqi forces. Battle they could feel they could actually win. Then i realized that adjusting the strategy was never gonna happen due to politics in the US that in order to save US lives that the only choice left was a phased redeplyoment. So although i feel that left untouched it is a lost cause, i have confidence that if we lessen our numbers that it iwll give iraqis a breather so they can rebuild their own civilization with financial help from the us. I will feel remorse that it didnt work. I will try to understand that they never wanted this invasion, they wanted us to leave, they want us to leave now adn that i would feel the same way if some other nation invaded us becasue they saw us as a threat and pre-emptively invaded us becasue our leader was an asshole and dropped bombs in the name of thier safety and them when they arrived they brought the folks that hated them in the first place with them adn we got caught in the middle of it. I would understadn if they wanted us to leave. I would be happy that saddam was gone, but maybe not as such a hight price. I would understand that it hard to show gratitutde when somethign was done against youe will and poorly executed.

So I dont feel entirely different that you do about this issue but the specifics between us are different.

 

[rakkasan]

So I dont feel entirely different that you do about this issue but the specifics between us are different.

Wow, no shit! The only real differences are:

• I don't jump to conclusions about your opinion
• I don't try to beat you over the head until you change our opinion to match mine
• I couldn't care less how you feel about my opinion, whereas you feel you need to restructure mine
• oh, and I don't ruin the debate by calling you an asshole

Frankly dulobast, I'm done with you. If it has taken you this long to realize what my opinion truly is, then you haven't read a word I've written in the 100's of threads I've entered. On the contrary, your neanderthal approach to civil discourse has grown old & I just don't feel like participating anymore. You seem to be really pissed off about something in your life, and I'm sorry about that, but I'm not a counselor getting paid to listen to you babble on & on about it.

 

[dulobast25]

Wow, no shit! The only real differences are:

• I don't jump to conclusions about your opinion
• I don't try to beat you over the head until you change our opinion to match mine
• I couldn't care less how you feel about my opinion, whereas you feel you need to restructure mine
• oh, and I don't ruin the debate by calling you an asshole

Frankly dulobast, I'm done with you. If it has taken you this long to realize what my opinion truly is, then you haven't read a word I've written in the 100's of threads I've entered. On the contrary, your neanderthal approach to civil discourse has grown old & I just don't feel like participating anymore. You seem to be really pissed off about something in your life, and I'm sorry about that, but I'm not a counselor getting paid to listen to you babble on & on about it.

ur right about one thing, the asshole thing, although it was a bit of a joke. The neanderthal comment isnt any better. Who's trying to restructure your opinion? As a matter of fact my post was for Nick M. not you.
I'm no more pissed than the avg citizen in the U.S. Keep the bable, for the only trace of it belongs to you.

 

[Nick M]

I am a liberal and I think on my own!

Prove it. Which popular liberal ideas do you support and why?

 

[Nick M]

"Did they in Gettysburgh? When 50,000 Americans died in 3 days."

Nick, this isnt gettysburg. I think we are a little moe sophisitcated that that now, at any rate. Next thing ur gonna ask me is we should be using muskets and ride horseback rather than tank machine guns and cruise missles.

I dont think pointing our greater causalties from former battles constitiutes ar valid argument about a war that didnt have to be waged and discuss the the comparison in 2006.

ridiculuous

You are redirecting. I don't know why I even went back and read the some of the crap, but I did.

Sophistication has what to do with the debate? How about nothing. It is about what is right and wrong. That is the debate, you are the one that brought up casulty rates, not me. Nice try hippie.

 

[Adjuster]

How about this for reality.

More US citizens die on the highways every year than in any of the past 5 years of war we have been involved in. (And it's close to the number of US troops that died in WWII.)

We don't go around bitching and complaining about the death and distruction on our highways, and how someone lied to us, and made us drive those deathly miles.

I don't hear people make comments about how they hope we will force people to drive fewer miles next year, a mileage reduction if you will, and that will cut back on the death rate...

Not being crass here on purpose, but DAMN few our our troops have died in Iraq compared to other wars, yet that has so little coverage and understanding outside of the Military it's not even funny.

Our country has grown up a generation of PC liberal pussies, and I for one am disgusted by you all.

You whine about how troops in their backyard causes them to hate us... Oh my! We had better not make them hate us! They will do something even worse than hyjack our planes and fly them into tall buildings.... (Oh wait, loose change proves that our own government crashed those planes... wait cruise missiles.. oh wait, remote control cruise missle planes into the buildings knocking them down... oh wait, it was really controlled demolitions with tons of explosives designed by swimming pool engineers...)


We we should have done after they attacked us, on 912, the day after, while the smoke was still in the air, is immediately drafted every able bodied US citizen between the ages of 19 and 25 who was single and put them into military service.

We should have immediately stopped all vehicle production, and tooled up for tanks, aircraft, ships and other supplies of war.

We should have trained up this huge military force, while the existing forces scouted what to do with them. (Where to go, and who to obiliterate.)

Ok, then one year later, we would roll into the Taliban and obliterate them. Completely. Move to Iraq. Either give up, or we obliterate you.
Same goes for Iran, N. Korea and others who support terrorism and/or radical islam.

Would Russia or China object? I don't think so, we would not attack them unless they did something stupid like support terrorism.

People don't support this war because all they see is the negative view of the media and liberals across the nation who want the USA to fail in this war so they have a political strap to hold onto and try and get back into power with. Yep, that's right, the LIBERALS in this nation don't want us to win, they want our guys and gals to die and us to fail so they can make political hay and re-gain power.

Read about Nero, and how he laughed when Rome fell. It's sounds like Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton today. Pretty scary really when you think about it.

A political party in our own government wants US, the USA to fail and die so they can get back into power.

Pretty sad really. And the Media loves them for it. Another enemy of the USA that hides behind the idea that they are here for us, and have to tell the truth... LOL It's like a wolf hiding out in the flock wearing sheep's clothes.

 

[dulobast25]

You are redirecting. I don't know why I even went back and read the some of the crap, but I did.

Sophistication has what to do with the debate? How about nothing. It is about what is right and wrong. That is the debate, you are the one that brought up casulty rates, not me. Nice try hippie.

I'm talking about casuality rates IN THE IRAQ WAR U NAZI. U brought up gettysburg, which isnt what this this is about. It is about iraq. The question is if the price we ar paying in iraq on all levela are worth what we have achieved. The answer is no. As far as sophisitcation is concerned, yeah if you bring up some crude wwar in Americas past to justify what is happening now, especially as i applies to the causualites, the art of war is what has changed, and is show in how soldier fall and how many so it IS the point of YOUR redirecting. Tha casualty rate is one of the prblems dissenter have with war. It is not a redirect or a change is subject. it is a cost of war. But the cost should be worthy of the prize. And that is where dissenter dont agree with war mongers like you. As far as right and wrong is concerned, is was wrong to wag this war in the manner it has been waged. Wrong, period. is the clear enough for you. We have gained virtually nothing to enusre our safety here at home as far as a terrorist act is concerned. Wordlwide terror has gone up since the invasion. America WILL be attacked again and this war has done virtually nothign to stop it. Problem is that American had to do something, it had to take action. It just wasnt the most effective action. Nice try NAZI